Dollhouse season 2

[shapinglight]

So I thought it was about time I watched Dollhouse season 2 and got it out of the way. Just watched the first ep. Boy, it's creepy! I'd forgotten. And Tahmoh Penikett's character is the creepiest of the lot.

I wonder. Some shows are creepy because they're meant to be. I've never been sure with this one, and now my opinion of Joss's understanding of his own story has once again plummeted to BtVS season 6-like depths, I'm really not sure if the level of creepiness is intentional or not.

Slight spoilers behind cut, and don't spoiler me for future eps, even though I've been pretty thoroughly spoiled by accident for them already.



It was, in fact, so creepy -especially the scenes between Topher and Whiskey - that I began to think I wouldn't bother after all, but then Eliza started beating men up again and reeled me back in. Oh well. Only 12 episodes.

Also, I noticed this ep was written by Andrew Chambliss, the new co-writer of the Buffy comics. Can't say this was one of the show's better eps, so hmmm.

Comments

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

"I've never been sure with this one, and now my opinion of Joss's understanding of his own story has once again plummeted to BtVS season 6-like depths, I'm really not sure if the level of creepiness is intentional or not. "

Now you can see what I was talking about. As the season goes on I became more and more convinced Whedon really didn't understand how a lot of what he'd written would come across to some.

Oh well, 'Wesley' will turn up soon and he's always worth the admission fee. :D

[tx-cronopio.livejournal.com]

yep, Joss really disappointed on this one.

[shapinglight]

'Wesley's' in the very first episode, in fact, putting on a silly American accent.

Jamie Bamber was the villain, using his own accent, I notice. Back to the 'all Brits are evil' Hollywood cliche.

As the season goes on I became more and more convinced Whedon really didn't understand how a lot of what he'd written would come across to some.

It's sad. Post-season 8 I've become so cynical about him I don't believe for one minute that he does. I think he really is that clueless.

[shapinglight]

I enjoyed most of season 1, in a creepy sort of way. But since I watched it, the Buffy comic has plumbed new depths and my opinion of Whedon has sunk to an all time low. Now, all I can see is the creepiness.

Though Eliza chucking grown men around like Ken dolls will never get old.

[quinara]

Oh, but Claire in this episode is so awesome! I think her scenes here are the high point for the whole season, actually (er... by which I mean there's still good stuff to come, ish?).

I think S1 holds it's own in terms of keeping the creepiness intentional/upholding enough of a non-creepy message that I don't find it gratuitous. S2... Does a lot of things I'm not fond of and I find the second half especially a massive let down of everything that's come before. But I haven't watched it in an age!

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I'm fairly certain the creepiness is intentional and I think the second season is quite good except for the finish, mainly because it's so twisty and rushed that nothing sticks anymore.

[tripleransom.livejournal.com]

I thought the whole premise of Dollhouse was creepy and exploitative. I saw the first ep or so and then didn't bother.

[shapinglight]

Oh, but Claire in this episode is so awesome! I think her scenes here are the high point for the whole season, actually (er... by which I mean there's still good stuff to come, ish?).

I agree the scenes are excellent. Amy Acker really is very good. They were still a bit creepy, though.

I agree with you about season 1. Perhaps if I hadn't waited so long to watch season 2, and the last two arcs of the Buffy comic hadn't come along in the meantime...

[shapinglight]

I'm fairly certain the creepiness is intentional

I know it must be, it's just that the last two arcs of the Buffy comic have made me doubt that Joss ever really gets the full impact of what his stories do to his characters, and thus I also find myself doubting if he really knew what he was doing here.

Sad really. I should've watched season 2 sooner.

[shapinglight]

It is a very creepy premise, no doubt about it. I don't mind that as such, I just find myself doubting Joss's understanding of how creepy it is. Unintentionally creepy is way worse.

[enisy.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure the Season 2 opener was written by Joss (not Andrew). I distinctly recall him patting himself on the back over the Topher/Claire scene.

Agree with flake_sake that the creepiness is intentional; Joss said as much in his Cultural Humanism speech. And I agree with her about the finale, as well.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

I think the creepiness is intentional, but Joss goes about things in all the wrong ways. What's the old Nietzsche phrase? Be careful battling monsters, lest you become one?

That's the issue with Joss and his recent works. While you're saying it's intentionally creepy...it's still creepy and still serves for creepy purposes. Do creeps care about what it tries to say? Not really, they care about attractive women in dolls in sexy outfits. While it's saying one thing to part of the audience, at the same time it plays into the fantasy of those it's a commentary on.

If you have to turn Buffy into Bella Swann to make fun of Bella Swann, the fact remains you made that character Bella Swann. Angel, same thing.

[shapinglight]

:sigh: LJ ate my answer to your comment. Suffice it to say, I wouldn't have these doubts about the intentional creepiness if it weren't for the Buffy comic.

Also, you're right that Joss wrote this episode. I still don't think it's that great. Certainly not as good as any of his season 1 eps.

[shapinglight]

If you have to turn Buffy into Bella Swann to make fun of Bella Swann, the fact remains you made that character Bella Swann. Angel, same thing.

So true. I would probably be a lot more forgiving about this if it weren't for the Buffy comic.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Like many others, I'm positive the creepiness is intentional, but that doesn't necessarily make it any easier to watch. I've been to see Suckerpunch in the meantime, and I can say with confidence that Joss walks the tightrope about 100x more skillfully than Zack Snyder, so there's that. (The bar, it is so very low.)

However, I loved the second season, and there are some things coming up that I wouldn't want you to miss! Though there's other stuff that's just head-scratching. High highs and low lows, I suppose.

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

Why is creepy a problem?

[helenkacan.livejournal.com]

Um ... call me confused (and, er, blind), but why do you consider Ballard's character to be the creepiest? He was my fave out of a weird bunch.

[snickfic]

You realize that Alexis Denisof is American, right?

I do think that something like 3/4 of the creepiness we see on Dollhouse is intentionally creepy. This episode in particular, I think, is meant to creep us way the heck out, with the Topher-Whiskey stuff and the Ballard-Echo stuff. Definitely intentional.

I just realized that I only have two DH icons and they are both still spoilery for you. Huh. Have Eliza Dushku instead.

[shapinglight]

You realize that Alexis Denisof is American, right?

Yes, of course. His American accent is crap, though. I think he lived this side of the Pond for too long. When he came over to perform in All My Sons in Liverpool, he gave an interview where he said as much and that he'd had to take How to Sound American lessons specially for the play.

I do think that something like 3/4 of the creepiness we see on Dollhouse is intentionally creepy.

I'm sure you're right, though I am creeped out to think that even a quarter of the creepiness might not be intentional.

[shapinglight]

I've been to see Suckerpunch in the meantime, and I can say with confidence that Joss walks the tightrope about 100x more skillfully than Zack Snyder, so there's that. (The bar, it is so very low.)

I still don't really understand why he wanted to go there. Not that it's not interesting at times. I did enjoy large chunks of season 1, though it had far more weak episodes than I'm used to in Jossian product (well, until the Buffy comic anyway).

[shapinglight]

It isn't, unless it's unintentional.

[shapinglight]

I just find his obsession with Caroline/Echo very creepy, I'm afraid.