Tonight's DW

[shapinglight]

Er...okay?

Spoilers behind cut



That's all fine, and stuff, but it didn't explain at all why everyone was so scared of the Doctor in the first place. What's he supposed to have done beyond getting understandably narky about Amy being kidnapped?

Good ep, though (apart from irritating Damsel Amy). Much better than last week's.

Comments

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

I think what Moffat is trying to imply is that the Doctors become too much of a feared legend now after centuries of conflicts between various races and himself. Now they've decided to take action by doing what they did.

RTD set this all up in how he decided to depict the Doctors and now Moffats on record as saying he wants to change that as you can't keep ramping this sort of reputation up as It'll end up being a dead end for the character. Through this arc he's hoping to reset the character somehow and take him down a peg or two.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

I'm in agreement with Sue on what Moffat's trying to say. I enjoyed the ep immensely. I felt the same way as you about Amy in S1, but she's grown on me this season. And I adore Rory! I'd sort of guessed where they were going with River, so the revelation at the end didn't surprise me too much. I'm quite happy with it, though, although I'm sure there'll be some unhappy people in the DW fandom. People seem to be quite split where River's concerned, although I think she's a fabulous character myself.

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

Well, I think it's ridiculous.
River looks nothing like Amy or Rory.

[shapinglight]

I sort of get that. All the scenes of the Doctor confronting the Cybermen, and reeling in all his former enemies to help him etc, was meant to remind us of that. But since those things only happened because Amy was kidnapped in the first place it all seems a bit circular.

[shapinglight]

I like River fine, and I guessed ages ago for who she would turn out to be, and that doesn't bother me at all. Afraid I feel the exact opposite about Amy to you. I didn't mind her at all in season 1. Now she really, really gets on my nerves.

[shapinglight]

I don't think that's the reason why it's ridiculous. ;)

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Yes, but It's just Moffat latching onto something to push the kind of thing he's after really. He's on record as saying he wants to get as far as he can away from how RTD saw the character, and so I think this is the result.

I liked this episode although I think most hard core fans had already guessed that River was Amy's daughter ages ago.

[shapinglight]

Well, I guessed. Ages ago.

He's on record as saying he wants to get as far as he can away from how RTD saw the character, and so I think this is the result.

This is just the beginning, then, since as of this ep, a lot of people, including annoying Amy, still seem to the think the Doctor is marvellous and can do anything.

I don't mind if we get away from the Doctor-as-Semi-deity thing. It got needlessly messianic at times.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Well It looks like this is Amy's last season, so she won't be getting on our nerves for much longer. *g*

"This is just the beginning, then, since as of this ep, a lot of people, including annoying Amy, still seem to the think the Doctor is marvellous and can do anything. "

Well remember what River was saying. He'll rise higher then ever before and then fall.

[shapinglight]

Well It looks like this is Amy's last season, so she won't be getting on our nerves for much longer. *g*

I hadn't heard that. Hoorah! Shall miss Rory a bit, but not her.

He'll rise higher then ever before and then fall.

I thought this was him doing that? Hasn't he done it yet?

I make it sound like I didn't like the ep. I did. I thought the Silurian warrior lady and her human ahem! friend were wonderful (a bit like the scary Victorian lesbians in TW) and I enjoyed the fat, thin gay Anglicans, though don't quite see the point of them. The fat blue bloke was good too.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

"I thought this was him doing that? Hasn't he done it yet?"

No thats going to be in the fall out from all this as we'll see it in the second half of this season.

The poor bugger that got changed into a headless monk was a bit of a space filler in an episode that could have done with a bit more streamlining in my opinion.

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

One of many reasons ...!

[lilachigh.livejournal.com]

The only thing that bothers me, is that River never, ever has treated Rory and Amy as her parents, or even people she might have feelings for, in all the episodes we've seen. She obviously knew what the relationship was, right from the beginning. It all feels a bit contrived.

[brutti-ma-buoni.livejournal.com]

Ah well. My private theory that River is the one who killed the Doctor, and guilt over that is why she's staying in prison when she can clearly get out at will, is evidently not where this is going. But it was a nice one while it lasted. More depth than just another family thing.

Also, if they are doing another comedy WW2 episode with 'Killing Hitler' I am going to be underwhelmed. It's my own squick, but still, no. I'm hoping it's more about the philosophical angle, whether you can change history by removing one person, but when that flashed up as the Coming Soon I was mightily unhappy.

[kazzy-cee.livejournal.com]

I rather enjoyed it, even the double Flesh thing didn't worry me. I do hope Moffat doesn't do it again though.

[shapinglight]

You're right, but I suppose if she hasn't grown up with them, that might make a difference?

[shapinglight]

She could still be the one who killed the Doctor. Her being Amy and Rory's daughter doesn't make that impossible, I don't think. I do find the time paradox stuff irritating, though.

As for the Killing Hitler thing, I hope it's supposed to be ironic and nothing to do with WW2 at all. We'll see in the autumn.

[shapinglight]

I quite enjoyed it too, except for Amy. God, she's annoying!

[shapinglight]

Well, when time paradoxes creep into things ridiculousness is pretty much unavoidable.

[shapinglight]

There were bits and pieces thrown in for no good reason.

[kitmarlowescot2.livejournal.com]

Sigh...I miss Donna and Rose.
I miss Ten. I like Eleven, but Ew kissing your supposed maybe goddaughter/adopted/partial blood daughter. And what this will be his second daughter after Jenny ?
Had an idea for a fic way back with characters Y the youngest child ever of the doctor and Either Or her slight older twin as the genetic children of the Doctor, Jack and Rose from another Dimension know stuck in this one. With Y, being the odd one of staying on Earth and going only forward through time, kinda of being a person who cleans up after the action is over with. With Either Or, Or being the named used most as kinda weird time lord who changes sex every 12 hours, is legally married to his Tardis, and is in a open marriage with her deciding who their partners usually are. Or also through illegal time lordy stuff and almost destroyed half the universe doing it frooze his/her bilogical time at exactly 100 so while her/his twin gets older, he/she won't. He/She also prefers salt free martini's through out his/her lives and has racked 100's of different bodies. Preffering to never stay still and always love trying something new, be it sex, or species. Just my idea of a crack fanfic.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

We keep this doctor though...? I like eleven a lot. (and Rory). I'm generally okay with Amy, but I also wouldn't miss her.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I actually understood why everyone was afraid. Because of how last week when the Doctor sonic'd ganger!Amy and I didn't realize she wasn't also made real flesh -- because I didn't understand immediately how it worked, it made the Doctor look TERRIFYING to me.

And I love Eleven. ADORE him. And that moment so disturbed me that I stopped using the tag "Eleven is my favorite" until I'd worked it out in my mind.

So I can easily imagine someone seeing the Doctor do things in a reckless manner in ways they don't understand, only seeing the immense power and the great risks he takes and not realizing how much he actually cares, how he's trying to do good and save lives.

It's the present fear of his power without the knowledge of the goodness. Amy even says it in this episode, that if you truly knew him, you wouldn't find him "dark".

Though now it's occurring to me that you might have meant what did the Doctor specifically do to all these people? And I imagine it's partly that he saved their lives in his Doctor-y ways over the years.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I get the feeling River wasn't actually raised by her parents so her not relating to them that way makes sense to me.

Or... what shapinglight said. :)

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, Matt Smith isn't going anywhere yet, :D

[enisy.livejournal.com]

But she did kill him, didn't she? She was the girl in the astronaut suit.

I'm with you on Amy, although, unlike you, I also rather dislike River. Might be Moffat's interview statements that have put me off his women in general.

[shapinglight]

But she did kill him, didn't she? She was the girl in the astronaut suit.

She was, but there could still be another twist. We didn't see if the figure in the astronaut suit that killed the Doctor was the little girl. It could have been someone else.

I haven't read any of Moffatt's interviews, except his latest one in the Radio Times (TV listings book), where he confirms that DW is a kids' program, though it can be enjoyed on multiple levels etc etc.

[shapinglight]

Sigh...I miss Donna and Rose.

Donna was my favourite companion too.

[shapinglight]

Though now it's occurring to me that you might have meant what did the Doctor specifically do to all these people? And I imagine it's partly that he saved their lives in his Doctor-y ways over the years.

Yes, I did mean that really. Given how many times the Doctor had saved the human race it seems bizarre they're all so scared of him. But then 'normal' people have reactions like that to superheroes all the time, I suppose.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I think the same principle applies. I know the Doctor is essentially good, I've seen him save people and the world over and over -- yet when I didn't understand why he'd killed ganger!Amy, when I didn't understand she wasn't alive the way the other gangers were, I emotionally recoiled from him. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, worked it out in my mind, and then I was okay with him again. (And I know there's still many people who can't stand Ten because of what he did to Donna, so...)

I imagine for these people they see a mad man in a box who swoops in when disasters strikes, who orders them around and never explains why, who manipulates them, lies to them, and even if it appears like he's saved the day -- they never feel ~safe~ because he's the oncoming storm.

[shapinglight]

I suppose that makes sense. I do still feel their reaction was a bit extreme, though. Or perhaps not extreme enough.