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shapinglightI debated with myself whether to post this openly or not. But then I thought, oh well.
Spoilers within for my fic Hell Can Wait and for the Buffy comics. Also, mention of the AR, so please avoid this post if that's a trigger subject for you.
This post arises by the rather roundabout route of me writing Hell Can Wait for![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
rekindlespangel. The general tone of fics on the comm is rather sombre, I've noticed, whereas I went for a comedic tone, dealing with Spike and Angel's past with each other in a way that reduced their issues to the often very petty squabbles over nothing much, as seen in The Girl in Question, which I still think is a good, if very maligned, episode. A lot of their differences were petty and stupid, and they should just grow up.
However, when writing their 'let's have it all out' conversation in the story, I realised that there was no way I could make specific mention of the AR and still keep that tone. Spike is accusing Angel of treating Buffy the same way he treated Drusilla - ie. messing with her head - and Angel is defending himself by saying he was evil at the time (they're talking BtVS season 2), and couldn't help it. He couldn't love Buffy without a soul etc, etc. To which Spike of course responds with "Oh really?" or words to that effect, implying that he had no such problem. Angel counters with questioning the quality of that love (sick and soulless) and Spike is forced to admit that he made big mistakes too and they end up calling it quits. However, I felt there was no way I could have Spike state openly what his worst mistake was and have them call it quits. Rape/attempted rape is just not something you can throw into a conversation like that and then have the characters shrug and carry on with the story in a semi-comedic way.
However, maybe I'm wrong to think that (maybe I'm wrong to post this?)? Maybe I should've had Spike flat out admit what he did and included a section in the story in which Angel just beats the crap out of him (though been there, done that in fic many years ago, not sure that it does anything except assuage a fannish desire for what some (Scott Allie maybe?) might see as proportionate revenge (though you also might question why the hell is it Angel's business in the first place?)). But for me, it's sort of the elephant in the room, and maybe it was for some people who read the story too, though no one mentioned it in comments. Maybe they just thought I'd been massively unfair to Angel and made him look like the worst sinner by default by not mentioning it specifically? I don't know.
I suppose what it comes down to again is being really annoyed at Joss for putting the character of Spike in such an impossible position without any clear exit strategy, as it were (well, beyond his heroic death, if that had even been conceived of when Marti came up with the idea of the AR and Joss okay'd it). Generally speaking these days, I take a purely Watsonian view of what happens in BtVS. I think you pretty much have to in order to enjoy the show. Also, as I've stated before quite recently, after ten years of mulling all this over, I know what I think and am unlikely to change my mind. However, I am always painfully aware of skirting around the AR whenever I write comedic fic, which I like to write, and so wish I didn't have to. It's just that it's the one thing you cannot not take seriously.
As a whingey aside, there should be another, which is Angel's treatment of Buffy in the Buffy comic's Season 8, but Joss/Dark Horse/Christos Gage (the writer of the Angel & Faith comic) seem to be trying to worm out of that by a retcon here, a statement of denial there, and flat out refusal to engage there. Spike didn't - and never will - get that retcon/denial/refusal to engage, nor should he. It annoys me that Angel does.
Probably shouldn't post this. I hope it doesn't upset anybody. If you comment, please do not character/other poster bash and please be sensitive of other posters' feelings.
ETA: Please note, I shall be out for a while and can't answer comments till later.
Spoilers within for my fic Hell Can Wait and for the Buffy comics. Also, mention of the AR, so please avoid this post if that's a trigger subject for you.
This post arises by the rather roundabout route of me writing Hell Can Wait for
rekindlespangel. The general tone of fics on the comm is rather sombre, I've noticed, whereas I went for a comedic tone, dealing with Spike and Angel's past with each other in a way that reduced their issues to the often very petty squabbles over nothing much, as seen in The Girl in Question, which I still think is a good, if very maligned, episode. A lot of their differences were petty and stupid, and they should just grow up.However, when writing their 'let's have it all out' conversation in the story, I realised that there was no way I could make specific mention of the AR and still keep that tone. Spike is accusing Angel of treating Buffy the same way he treated Drusilla - ie. messing with her head - and Angel is defending himself by saying he was evil at the time (they're talking BtVS season 2), and couldn't help it. He couldn't love Buffy without a soul etc, etc. To which Spike of course responds with "Oh really?" or words to that effect, implying that he had no such problem. Angel counters with questioning the quality of that love (sick and soulless) and Spike is forced to admit that he made big mistakes too and they end up calling it quits. However, I felt there was no way I could have Spike state openly what his worst mistake was and have them call it quits. Rape/attempted rape is just not something you can throw into a conversation like that and then have the characters shrug and carry on with the story in a semi-comedic way.
However, maybe I'm wrong to think that (maybe I'm wrong to post this?)? Maybe I should've had Spike flat out admit what he did and included a section in the story in which Angel just beats the crap out of him (though been there, done that in fic many years ago, not sure that it does anything except assuage a fannish desire for what some (Scott Allie maybe?) might see as proportionate revenge (though you also might question why the hell is it Angel's business in the first place?)). But for me, it's sort of the elephant in the room, and maybe it was for some people who read the story too, though no one mentioned it in comments. Maybe they just thought I'd been massively unfair to Angel and made him look like the worst sinner by default by not mentioning it specifically? I don't know.
I suppose what it comes down to again is being really annoyed at Joss for putting the character of Spike in such an impossible position without any clear exit strategy, as it were (well, beyond his heroic death, if that had even been conceived of when Marti came up with the idea of the AR and Joss okay'd it). Generally speaking these days, I take a purely Watsonian view of what happens in BtVS. I think you pretty much have to in order to enjoy the show. Also, as I've stated before quite recently, after ten years of mulling all this over, I know what I think and am unlikely to change my mind. However, I am always painfully aware of skirting around the AR whenever I write comedic fic, which I like to write, and so wish I didn't have to. It's just that it's the one thing you cannot not take seriously.
As a whingey aside, there should be another, which is Angel's treatment of Buffy in the Buffy comic's Season 8, but Joss/Dark Horse/Christos Gage (the writer of the Angel & Faith comic) seem to be trying to worm out of that by a retcon here, a statement of denial there, and flat out refusal to engage there. Spike didn't - and never will - get that retcon/denial/refusal to engage, nor should he. It annoys me that Angel does.
Probably shouldn't post this. I hope it doesn't upset anybody. If you comment, please do not character/other poster bash and please be sensitive of other posters' feelings.
ETA: Please note, I shall be out for a while and can't answer comments till later.