A few thoughts on Sleeper/NLM
Dec. 15th, 2009 02:55 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shapinglightYesterday, I watched a slew of BtVS episodes for the first time in ages- Restless, OMWF and Sleeper and Never Leave Me, and it struck me in NLM just how vehement Buffy was in her speech to Spike about how she believes in him.
I guess that jumping into the middle of the story like that and missing all the build up (ie. the church scene in Beneath You, Spike coming to help Buffy in Help etc) her vehemence struck me far more forcibly than it did last time I watched these episodes. It's very important to her to believe that Spike has not deliberately set out to kill and she gives him way more benefit of the doubt than she does Anya in Selfless. She won't act against him until she's 100% certain he's guilty.
(That said, Anya's actions at the frat house were revealed to Buffy as a fait accompli by someone she trusted (Willow) and no uncertainty as to whether or not Anya was culpable ever arose).
Once she is certain, however, her first instinct is still to execute him, and only the interference of the First stays her hand. From then on, once she realises how much he's been acted upon, her faith in his wish to become a better person - which he's rather vague about himself - never seems to waver once.
I'm still a bit puzzled by this, seeing as I don't believe for one minute that Buffy was in love with Spike pre-season 7. I suppose her motives are conflicted, as everyone's are. She knows he's a monster (and in case she's forgotten, he paints a deliberately graphic picture for her in NLM, including a reminder of the worst thing he ever did to her), but she also knows she owes him one, because she used him, which she admits openly. And once she's seen into his soul (the convo in the bedroom), she won't allow him to condemn himself or give up (a bit like with Angel in Amends only with less high drama). She really is a pick-'em-up-by-the-scruff-of-the-neck-and-shake-'em type, isn't she?
Plus, the soul is a big, big deal for her. It's the macguffin that allowed her to say that Angel wasn't responsible for the things he did without a soul, which in turn allowed her to go on loving him. I suppose it's not surprising that it means more to her than it does to her friends. None of their relationships revolve on the having/not having of a soul.
Anyway, this is just vague rambling. I probably wrote much better pieces about these episodes in my re-watching season 7 posts.
Restless and OMWF are still awesome, btw, were there any doubt. OMWF made me all teary. Poor, poor Buffy!
ETA: re: Sleeper, I'm still puzzling over that line of dialogue when Spike begs the First to make him forget again because he did what the First wanted. Were Fury/Espenson going with Spike knowing on some level what he was doing in return for the First allowing him to forget about it afterwards, or what? If they were, then he is culpable after all, so I don't think it can be that. So what does he mean?
ETA 2: Just re-read my review of Sleeper and though I didn't think then, any more than I do now, that what Spike said about 'make me forget again' was meant to mean he'd known what he was doing all along, I still don't really know what it means.
ETA 3: Heh! Just re-read my NLM review, and I was puzzling over Buffy's vehemence then too.
I guess that jumping into the middle of the story like that and missing all the build up (ie. the church scene in Beneath You, Spike coming to help Buffy in Help etc) her vehemence struck me far more forcibly than it did last time I watched these episodes. It's very important to her to believe that Spike has not deliberately set out to kill and she gives him way more benefit of the doubt than she does Anya in Selfless. She won't act against him until she's 100% certain he's guilty.
(That said, Anya's actions at the frat house were revealed to Buffy as a fait accompli by someone she trusted (Willow) and no uncertainty as to whether or not Anya was culpable ever arose).
Once she is certain, however, her first instinct is still to execute him, and only the interference of the First stays her hand. From then on, once she realises how much he's been acted upon, her faith in his wish to become a better person - which he's rather vague about himself - never seems to waver once.
I'm still a bit puzzled by this, seeing as I don't believe for one minute that Buffy was in love with Spike pre-season 7. I suppose her motives are conflicted, as everyone's are. She knows he's a monster (and in case she's forgotten, he paints a deliberately graphic picture for her in NLM, including a reminder of the worst thing he ever did to her), but she also knows she owes him one, because she used him, which she admits openly. And once she's seen into his soul (the convo in the bedroom), she won't allow him to condemn himself or give up (a bit like with Angel in Amends only with less high drama). She really is a pick-'em-up-by-the-scruff-of-the-neck-and-shake-'em type, isn't she?
Plus, the soul is a big, big deal for her. It's the macguffin that allowed her to say that Angel wasn't responsible for the things he did without a soul, which in turn allowed her to go on loving him. I suppose it's not surprising that it means more to her than it does to her friends. None of their relationships revolve on the having/not having of a soul.
Anyway, this is just vague rambling. I probably wrote much better pieces about these episodes in my re-watching season 7 posts.
Restless and OMWF are still awesome, btw, were there any doubt. OMWF made me all teary. Poor, poor Buffy!
ETA: re: Sleeper, I'm still puzzling over that line of dialogue when Spike begs the First to make him forget again because he did what the First wanted. Were Fury/Espenson going with Spike knowing on some level what he was doing in return for the First allowing him to forget about it afterwards, or what? If they were, then he is culpable after all, so I don't think it can be that. So what does he mean?
ETA 2: Just re-read my review of Sleeper and though I didn't think then, any more than I do now, that what Spike said about 'make me forget again' was meant to mean he'd known what he was doing all along, I still don't really know what it means.
ETA 3: Heh! Just re-read my NLM review, and I was puzzling over Buffy's vehemence then too.