Game of Thrones Season 3 Ep 1 (the clueless about the books POV)

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And I'm still clueless about the books. So please don't spoiler me.

Spoilers for the episode behind cut.



Very much an introductory episode, I thought, in that it reintroduced us to many of the characters (no sign of Jaime and Brienne, or of Bran and Rickon, or of Arya), but it also picked up from where season 2 left off, with Sam and Jon and events beyond the Wall, whereas some time seemed to have passed for all the other characters - long enough for Tyrion's wound to heal, and for Dany and Jorah and their party to get away from Qarth.

Must say, I was impressed with Sam running across all that snow. Just been for a walk in some pretty deep snow this afternoon, and it's bloody hard work. I'm also glad that when Ghost finally decided to show up again (unless that was some other white dog, as I suppose it could have been, because it wasn't that big) he went to the person who needed him most, ie. Sam.

Not that Jon couldn't do with having Ghost around too. Bet the Wildling kids wouldn't be as keen to throw stones at him if Ghost were there. Yay!Ciaran Hinds. Looking forward to seeing what Mance Rayder's plans are, and just for once, Jon was quite clever when he talked to him (though I think Jon meant what he said too).

Elsewhere, I'm afraid Talisa still bores me rigid, even though she didn't say anything much. Also, the Harrenhal scene was horrid, and I get the heebie jeebies whenever Roose Bolton is around, even though he hasn't done anything yet, and in fact comes across as very calm and reasonable, unlike most of the other Northerners, who are carrying on from where they left off last season (ie. being very grim, and grumpy).

Things were a little more cheerful in Kingslanding, if only because the sun was shining, and it was quite fun to see Margaery discomfiting both Joffrey and Cersei with her Princess Diana act. I didn't enjoy Tywin much, though. He was horrible to Tyrion and just is...well, horrible. Though of course Charles Dance is so good that you'd rather Tywin was around being horrible than not.

I was glad Ser Davos survived the battle but I don't think he has much chance of outwitting Wosserface (I've forgotten the Red Woman's name).

Finally - and most intriguing for me - was the Dany stuff. I don't know where this is all going to go, but I hope she does something with these Unsullied people that the horrible slaver owner isn't expecting. And Barristan Selmy? I suspect he and Jorah are not going to get on at all.

Intrigued. Is it next week yet?

Trivial stuff: It didn't take them long to get some woman naked, did it? Also, Ros hasn't gone anywhere, I see.

Comments

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Yay, I have really missed your reviews and I love reading your unspoiled perspective. (And I posted my recap this morning so hopefully that helps with any confusion - it really WAS Ghost who saved Sam :D)

Ros hasn't gone anywhere, I see.

But she was fully clothed!! And outdoors. So that was good :D

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it really WAS Ghost who saved Sam :

Ah. I think he's shrunk in the wash, then. :)

And I agree Ros fully clothed is an improvement. I suppose the more she comes up in the world, the more flesh she gets to cover. Or something.

I loved your recap. Lots of fun, as always.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

It was kind of an overlong "Previously on", wasn't it? The s2 finale left a lot of plot threads hanging...

Barristan! I had to cheer out loud when I recognized him. I was sure we'd seen the last of him for some reason, so I'm glad to see he hasn't given up (even if I'm wondering where his priorities are if he really considers getting rid of the Mad King a failure, but we'll see).

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed with Tywin, but on the other hand it's good to know that he's not completely pragmatic about everything - the last few episodes of s2 made it easy to forget that he's not the sort of man we should be cheering for too hard.

I think Ghost has given up on Jon and settled for trying to train Sam instead.

I actually liked the conversation between Ros and Shae - both Shae's continued refusal to tell anyone who she is, and their acknowledgement that they shouldn't trust Sansa too much. Bodes well for her arc this season.

And Bron/Tyrion bromance. 'sall good.

ETA: Joffrey slap count - 0/10, but he did get to sit in the street fearing for his life for a couple of hours, so I guess they're building up to it.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

even if I'm wondering where his priorities are if he really considers getting rid of the Mad King a failure

Yeah, that's a bit eyebrow-raising. And if he's so eager to serve Targaryens again, would he have bent the knee to Viserys? (Also, he sounds kind of self-serving, since he didn't repent his service to Robert Baratheon until Robert's "son" kicked him out.) In the book, Barristan stays in disguise until he's figured out that Dany isn't Aerys V. 2.0, which I like because he was actually making a moral judgment about whom he should and shouldn't serve.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

The producers had some interview where they said that they had digitally upped them in size but it simply didn't work. It looked comical, that sometimes what works in books doesn't work on screen. They also said that was why they continued using real dogs (and upping them in size just a bit). It's one thing to CGI dragons. There's leeway with how dragons look and behave, but people are SO familiar with dogs and wolves that CGI just didn't work. You instinctively knew something was off. So, in the end, they made a production decision that the show's direwolves would simply never grow the size of the book direwolves and would continue to essentially be played by dogs and just digitally sized up a bit.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I missed that bit, and it does make Barristan a bit more suspect on the show than in the book. It makes him appear a bit more concerned with being a King's Guard than with 'honor.'


I can understand why, with the audience being capable of recognizing the actor, the show didn't exactly follow the book plot, but in the book I enjoyed Barristan hanging around as "Whitebeard" until he felt certain that Dany wasn't crazed or horrific AND stood a remote chance of reclaiming the throne.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I believe it's actually the opposite - they stopped using the dogs after Season 1 because the breed they used were total pains in the ass to work with, but rather than create direwolves that were ALL CGI as the dragons are, they use footage of real wolves, and size THEM up. The dogs are, alas, no longer on the show (because they were super-cute and I loved watching them!)

ETA: Here's Season Ghost, still played by an actual dog (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nNrlPdwY80U/T9SSWfJrZVI/AAAAAAAAAIQ/eOOUZUvuiag/s1600/afdweatrfazfqwesa.jpg)while this is the season 2 (and Season 3) version of Ghost, (http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5866/jop1q.png) which is that of a digitally enlarged real wolf. You can see some differences in the physique of the two animals, especially in the size of their ears and their snouts.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I think they simply changed breeds or decided to go with wolves, because they DEFINITELY said they tried CGIing them but it came off as so 'off' that they've now nixed it and went back to dogs/wolves (that they digitally enlarge).

I can't remember whether it was on winteriscoming.net linked interview or one of the HBO extras, but they definitely said that they could get away with CGI dragons because no one knew how they moved, but they'd tried it and nixed it with the wolves because because it simply looked too fake, CGI didn't move correctly and it screamed 'fake'. And they knowingly kept the size down because they tried bigger this season but that also looked too fake. So they were warning that the direwolves, unlike the dragons, were never going to grow yet bigger.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

people are SO familiar with dogs and wolves that CGI just didn't work. You instinctively knew something was off.

As helpfully demonstrated by the alleged wolves in the Twilight movies, but that's a different rant...

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

That does make sense, though of course the TV version would have to deal not only with the audience recognizing him but also with having Dany behave in a way that would convince both him and the audience that Dany's someone he'd want to follow, which... honestly, I think Dany is awesome and I can't wait to see what she does next, but she's hardly promising to bring peace, and I like that she could still go either way. Yay ambiguity.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Found it. Entertainment Weekly:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/03/13/game-of-thrones-dragon-changes/

the Stark family’s direwolves, which are played by real wolves, then digitally enlarged. Fans will notice fewer changes with the show’s direwolves this year. After growing from pups in the first season to large beasts in season two, producers have opted to keep them at the same size to maintain a greater sense of realism.

“We did some testing and at a certain point they look unreal,” Weiss says. “We reached a nice balance with them. And frankly, no matter how much money you spend on CG wolves — and we’ve seen the best that’s out there, state of the art, and some of it looks great — it still doesn’t look move and feel like a real animal.”

“With dragons, you get some leeway,” Benioff adds. “You can’t say, ‘Well, that doesn’t look like a real dragon.’”

“With a wolf, you have a million years of evolution telling you what they’re supposed to act like,” Weiss says.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

I think we're basically saying the same thing: the direwolves in seasons 2 & 3 aren't CGI in the way that the dragons are (i.e. the dragons are 100% computer generated) because that looked fake. Those are real wolves who are digitally enhanced (so there's some element of what I guess I would call CGI involved.)

HOWEVER ... the wolf "actors" and the people actors are never in the scenes at the same time, unlike the dogs actors in season 1. There were really animals "helping" Arya pack, following Jon Snow around, sleeping on Bran's bed. But they have never used actual wolves in scenes with the actors; they've only ever used images of real wolves that they digitally "grew" and added into the scenes after they shot them with the actors using greenscreen. So, unlike Season 1, there wasn't actually a wolf breathing in Nikolaj Coster-Waldau's face or following Hodor around Winterfell. (My goodness, the thought of the liability issues for that is astounding!) They don't use the dogs any more at all, because they were very hard to work with (and time is money, so the more takes they had to do with the dogs, the more expensive things got. Although Sophie Turner did end up adopting the dog who played Sansa's direwolf.)

Unfortunately because the enhancing/adding in wolves later stuff is kind of expensive, I think we're just not getting the bond between the kids and the wolves that the books give us. We've had no indication that Robb or Jon or Arya can do the "Wolf Vision" thing that Bran does (Sansa obviously doesn't have a direwolf any more) so I wonder if it will be a quality that ONLY Bran has on the show.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

It's certainly most important with Bran. I think they'll have to address it in some way with Jon if the series continues through all the books, but it's not urgent. Robb/his wolf are close (or at least should be. Surely we'll see that wolf again). Sansa's wolf is dead. Arya is a slightly different case altogether, so I can see the show taking or leaving it with her (Nymeria was always an odd non-factor.) Her story could continue an alternative route without necessarily addressing Nymeria. And who knows what in the heck is up with Rickon. He's a big ol' question mark.

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

>> it was quite fun to see Margaery discomfiting both Joffrey and Cersei with her Princess Diana act.

And about as sincere.

[kassto.livejournal.com]

I couldn't handle the brutality of it (books or TV series) so have basically given up on it. But get to experience it vicariously through synopses and reviews by such as yourself! Sometimes I wish I could watch it, but just can't really. I was reading somewhere recently how the battles of petty kings of medieval and postmedieval Europe/Britain were the inspiration, and how the common people's lot through these long wars was just desperate – famine, brutality, slaughter.... doesn't bear thinking about it. Just so glad I live now and not then!

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Really? I thought the enormous great things we saw in season 2 worked okay, or is that not what you mean?

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Those are certainly different dogs. I don't know much about them, but I can definitely see that the second one is more wolf-like.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

They'll continue to be as large as Season 2, but in the books they grew to be the size of horses or bears (I forget what they were compared to).

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What happens to Nymeria? Or is that really spoilery, if so don't tell me?

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:)

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It was kind of an overlong "Previously on", wasn't it? The s2 finale left a lot of plot threads hanging...

Oddly enough, the version I saw didn't include the previouslies. Dunno why not.

I think Ghost has given up on Jon and settled for trying to train Sam instead.

If I were Ghost, I'd probably do the same. Sam's much less annoying, and not nearly as dim.

And Bron/Tyrion bromance. 'sall good.

:) Agreed.

As for Joffrey, I consider Margaery's swooning over the cute orphans a sort of slap. He's like Prince Charles after Diana did that TV interview with Martin Bashir.

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I just like that Barristan isn't all that, because it puts Jorah less in the shade. :)

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Yep. Or nope. Not sure which it should be. Agreed, anyway.

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If I'd lived in the Middle Ages, I'd have wanted to be a nun. Locked away in a convent was the best place to be, definitely.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, the version I saw didn't include the previouslies.

Sorry, I meant that the entire episode was basically one long "Let's see, do you remember what happened to everyone in the last episode? Let's check!" My bad.

On the other hand, they did actually release the previouslies as an entire separate minisode. It's five minutes long. /o\

As for Joffrey, I consider Margaery's swooning over the cute orphans a sort of slap.

Especially since you know he was stuck in that thing so long he had to pee in there.

[kassto.livejournal.com]

Yes, a certain amount of safety, regardless of how much religious faith one had! And avoiding men and pregnancy and war....

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

It's not really spoilery, just that Arya had to send her off for her own good back in season 1. Awww!

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

As far as I know, nothing has happened to Nymeria. She's basically much like Arya, running free with a psuedo pack because her own pack has been dispersed to all corners of Westeros. We do see Nymeria in one scene that I won't go into unless or until it happens. Other than that, we only see her when an exhausted Arya had a couple of wolf dreams ala what Bran had last year on the show. So far, other than having the latent ability to do what Bran can do via wolf dreams, it hasn't been Arya's story.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah they've always successfully kept Marg enigmatic in that regard, which I've always enjoyed. You pretty much know she's being smartly political but she never breaks character... which to give her her due, I don't think Cersei could even successfully pull off the pretense.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Ah, so good to have the show back!

Tywin was majorly creepy with Tyrion and I just started to remember how good the third book was. If it goes like with the books, this will be the best two seasons so far.

I also loved the additions they made, like the dynamic between Shae and Sansa and also how they are building up Marguery.

Joff's face atseeing someone doing as publicity stunt that does not involve mindless cruelty, was priceless. Loved how she slipped by the scary looking guy politley, while he hid in his sedan.

[snickfic]

I think I missed something big in the last couple of eps of S2 re: Jon. I was confused that he killed Halfhand in the first place - I thought Halfhand suggested they pretend to be disagreeing, but then Fight to the Death happened. And now Jon wants to join Mance? I am really confused here.

Otherwise, yes, awfully slow. I liked seeing everyone's face again, but will be excited to get on with some action. I think Margery's scenes might be my favorite - she is so very, very good at this game. And the looks Cersei was giving her. :D

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Ah, so good to have the show back!

Yes, thank you so much!

Joff's face atseeing someone doing as publicity stunt that does not involve mindless cruelty, was priceless. Loved how she slipped by the scary looking guy politley, while he hid in his sedan.

Hee! Yes. I'm beginning to wonder if she meant something else when she said she wanted to be the queen.

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I was confused that he killed Halfhand in the first place - I thought Halfhand suggested they pretend to be disagreeing, but then Fight to the Death happened. And now Jon wants to join Mance? I am really confused here.

I think Halfhand's idea was that if Jon killed him, the Wildlings would be convinced by Jon's 'I want to be one of you' protestations. In other words, Jon was to become a Nightwatch 5th columnist and kill Mance Rayder when he got the chance. Just wounding Halfhand wouldn't have had the same effect. Besides, Halfhand is Northern, and Northerners are, as previously mentioned, grim.

I think Jon is currently wavering between being what Halfhand intended and really joining the Wildlings, because he meant what he said about Craster etc.

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And avoiding men and pregnancy and war....

Yes. I'm sure you could have learned to live with all that getting up in the night to pray in exchange for peace and safety.

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which to give her her due, I don't think Cersei could even successfully pull off the pretense.

No. Not in a million years.

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Sorry, I meant that the entire episode was basically one long "Let's see, do you remember what happened to everyone in the last episode? Let's check!" My bad.

Ooh, I get you. I agree, except for Dany. I think most of what happened with her was new.

Especially since you know he was stuck in that thing so long he had to pee in there.

:snerk:

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Yes, I can see that wasn't going to work.

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Yes, I remember that. I thought Shipperx meant something after that.

I'd always assumed that Arya would be reunited with Nymeria at some point and was surprised, as what Shipperx said seemed to contraindicate that.

[snickfic]

Ah! Thank you, that does clarify. Clearly I should have read the subtitles more closely during that exchange. :P

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I think that's right anyway. Not having read the books, I may have muddled it slightly.

[snickfic]

I am now occasionally hitting spots where I feel we have not sufficiently developed certain points for our book-ignorant audience. Like, I'm confused as to why Harhenhall was occupied by northerners waiting to be slaughtered. The last I knew, the Lannisters were still holding it?

Overall, though, I am ready to get one with the story now that we've gotten through all the introductory materials of the season.

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I think the Northerners in Harrenhal were slaughtered by Lannisters - or more specifically by that horrible Mountain person, who then did a big, scaredly runaway before Robb and his army turned up.