Game of Thrones Season 3 Ep 5 (the clueless about the books POV)

[shapinglight]

Another good one. So good, in fact, that I don't know if I can choose my favourite scene.

Spoilers behind cut.



For one thing, to my intense relief, there were no Theon scenes - though I did fear for one horrible moment that Bolton Snr was going to do what his nasty son did to Theon, and spin Jaime a pack of lies about his sister to break his spirit. But he didn't, which counts as Bolton Snr being nice, I suppose (until next week anyway, when something else horrible will probably happen).

Apart from that, there were so many great scenes in the episode I feel quite spoilt - from the Hound/Beric Donadarrion fight, and all the weird stuff about Beric Dondarrion coming back from the dead multiple times, to the Lady Olenna/Tyrion convo, to the Jorah/Barristan Selmy one upmanship contest (I knew those two weren't going to get on), to Dany telling the Unsullied they can choose their own names and them opting to stick with the ones they have, to all the very weird goings on with Stannis and family.

Mrs Stannis turns out to be even creepier than Melisandre, which is saying something. Young Ms Stannis, on the other hand, is quite charming (though clearly Stannis doesn't think so, but more fool him), and I'm now quite worried about her, given the nasty hints Melisandre was giving before she left to recharge her batteries (I wonder if she can come back from the dead too if someone says the right words?)

Poor Arya! I felt so sorry for her in that scene with Gendry, and also worried about her. She's become so bitter, and way harder than she has the strength to be. What's more, I have a nasty feeling being reunited with Robb - if that even happens - is not going to do her any good. Things aren't going well for Robb, and his latest plan smacks of sheer desperation. Not to mention he's gone and married the World's Most Boring Woman (I also knew those two Lannister boys were goners the minute Talisa promised them they'd be safe), and if Walder Frey doesn't kill them all, they'll die of boredom anyway.

But I've saved the best two scenes for last. I really can't choose between them. I'm talking about the final three way scene between Tywin, Cersei and Tyrion and the scene in the bathhouse between Brienne and Jaime. The first was shocking and also funny, in a dark sort of way. I know Sansa will hate the idea of marrying Tyrion, but if it happens, at least she'll be married to a good man. As for Cersei, serve her right, is all I can say.

But it won't end well for anyone. That's obvious.

As for the Jaime/Brienne scene - kudos to both actors, but especially to Nikolaj Coster-Waldau for a bravura performance during that monologue about how he came to kill the mad king. Not easy to do, to hold an audience spellbound and just talk, but he did it. In fact, he was brilliant. Jaime and Brienne, as a double act, are two of my favourite characters now. They work so well together. I'm very worried about what might happen to them next, though.

Great stuff!

Trivia: the nudity thing - while there's still far more female than male nudity in this show, things evened out a lot in this ep. I may have to watch Jaime climb into the bath on repeat. :)

Speaking of nudity, my initial reaction to the Jon Snow/Ygritte sex scene, was, bloody hell that girl's skinny! Someone give her a pie.

Comments

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

I have been waiting for that bath scene for two and a half seasons, and it did not disappoint at all. It was perfect, brilliant, mesmerizing, and also emotionally cathartic: there's a reason why it's set in the bath - rebirth, cleansing, and above all the lack of secrets. Jaime literally hides nothing from Brienne here, and I found his quiet statement of "I trust you" incredibly moving. Also, I loved the visual of clean-as-whistle, healthy Brienne rising from the water, sunlight glinting off her golden hair set against filthy, sick, wounded Jaime crumpled at the side of the tub was so beautiful. And then when he collapses into her arms and whispers "my name is Jaime" when she calls him Kingslayer - so perfect!

You know how much I love the books, and this is one of my favorite scenes of all, but I have to say that this is one of the times the show matched, and may even have surpassed, the scene in the books, all down to Nikolaj Coster-Waldau's fantastic acting (and Gwendoline Christie's as well, though she had a more passive role.) THAT is how you do naked exposition, show :D

I cried three times during the show last night - the first time when Arya pleaded with Gendry that she was his family; the second when she asked whether Thoros could bring Ned back from the dead; and the third when darling Shireen brought her Onion Knight a book, and promised him that she would teach him to read. I love her already.

[kikimay]

I loved the scene between Brienne and Jaime. It's an important scene and it wasn't disappointing at all; both actors did an amazing job. Plus Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is really hot.
I also think that Cersei asked for it. Generally I feel that book!Cersei is much more arrogant and spoiled than show!Cersei but in this episode she was much more like in the books.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Heh. The multiple resurrection thing was what I was referring to last week when I said that Berric's 'conversion' would be explained. A "God" resurrects you a half-dozen times, you can be forgiven for believing in them. :)

Also totally heartbreaking was Arya's "Can you bring back a man with no head." God, poor Arya. And losing Gendry too! "I'd be your family!" "No, you'd be my lady." Wonderful lines. Poor Arya again.

Great scene with Brienne/Jaime and defensible nudity as they truly were baring their vulnerabilities to one another.

And, honestly, Cersei is getting off easy. Marrying Loras seems like an easy thing for her (except for her ego at the status demotion). She already has kids and Loras won't want to sleep with her and is wealthy as hell. Frankly, it's not a bad option for her (but of course, she doesn't want an easy situation. She wants POWER.)

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

>>Not easy to do, to hold an audience spellbound

Maybe I might have been more captivated if I hadn't had a cat yowling that she didn't like her dinner all the way through it. Then my friend decided to text me...

[shapinglight]

I have been waiting for that bath scene for two and a half seasons, and it did not disappoint at all. It was perfect, brilliant, mesmerizing, and also emotionally cathartic

It was indeed a wonderful scene, and I see you have the icon already. :) I think Gwendoline Christie was great in the scene too- maybe not quite as hard to act listening to such a monologue convincingly as to speak it, but hard enough.

I found his quiet statement of "I trust you" incredibly moving.

I felt the same way. Currently, I'm finding it very hard to believe in the love of Jaime and Cersei, because Jaime's relationship with Brienne seems so much deeper and more real.

I'm glad this scene didn't disappoint you. I thought it was brilliant.

[shapinglight]

Plus Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is really hot.

He really is. It was nice, too, to have more male nudity than female in an episode, just for once.

I agree that Cersei asked for it. I enjoyed seeing Tywin wipe that smirk off her face. I do feel terribly sorry for Tyrion, though. Sansa is going to be horrified at the thought of having to marry him (and I doubt Shae will be very pleased when she finds out), because she doesn't know him, and that of all the men in Kingslanding he's the best and the kindest.

Maybe she'll run away with Littlefinger after all?

[shapinglight]

Heh. The multiple resurrection thing was what I was referring to last week when I said that Berric's 'conversion' would be explained. A "God" resurrects you a half-dozen times, you can be forgiven for believing in them. :)

Very much so. Is there ever any explanation?

Also totally heartbreaking was Arya's "Can you bring back a man with no head." God, poor Arya. And losing Gendry too! "I'd be your family!" "No, you'd be my lady." Wonderful lines. Poor Arya again.

Yes, poor Arya. I don't think she wants to be anyone's lady for a start, but she thought her friendship with Gendry was based on what he wants to base his friendships with the Brotherhood Without Banners on, and it isn't. Gendry's right, though. If they went to Robb together, things would be very different.

[shapinglight]

Yeah, I can see how that might be distracting. I recommend waiting till the cat's asleep and rewatching.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Well, Robb's certainly his father's son, isn't he? Because sticking to honour above all always works so well in this story.

The bath scene was brilliant (and not just because for once, there was actually a point to the actors being naked). I'll be damned if I'm not starting to have a bit of sympathy for Jaime. Which annoys me, but that's the way it goes. (But Roose Bolton's greeting was still funny as hell.) And Brienne listening to him, slowly coming to understand him...

I'm really starting to wonder if they're setting up an alliance between Tyrion and Cersei against their father. Or at least trying to make us think they're doing that.

So now Littlefinger has a spy in Loras' bed and Loras is going to be married to the dowager queen. Hmmm.

And all the little character moments - the Arya/Gendry scene, The Hound freaking out about fire, Tyrion reminding his father that he was married once thankyouverymuch...

A little more Joffrey slappage and these last two episodes would have been almost perfect.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

I see you have the icon already. :)

hee! I made it when they first showed the 5 second glimpse of him in the bath in one of the many previews :D Just needed to wait to break it out!!

I'm finding it very hard to believe in the love of Jaime and Cersei, because Jaime's relationship with Brienne seems so much deeper and more real.

This is really interesting for me as a book reader. We of course have no access to Jaime's inner monologue during the show as we do in the books, but I think you've nailed down something very interesting: Brienne and Jaime see each other for who they are, good and bad (well, that's just in Jaime's case, Brienne isn't bad at all :P) and their nakedness in the bath scene was so important because of that symbolism. And Jaime carries around this image of Cersei that's not necessarily who she really is, though he is usually good at reading people, while Cersei ... let us say that I think Lena Headey said something very perceptive when she said at one point that Cersei wants to be Jaime more than anything.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

The bath scene was brilliant (and not just because for once, there was actually a point to the actors being naked). I'll be damned if I'm not starting to have a bit of sympathy for Jaime. Which annoys me, but that's the way it goes. (But Roose Bolton's greeting was still funny as hell.) And Brienne listening to him, slowly coming to understand him...


This Jaime fan is quite happy to hear that :D (I'm guessing from your username that you're a 'Buffy' fan? And my friend who got me into the books years ago sold me on them by telling me there was a character who very much reminded me of Spike, which I have to say, Jaime does. He may be a monster, but Brienne makes him want to be a man, etc.)

Loras is going to be married to the dowager queen

It's also getting so twisty: Cersei's going to marry her son's brother-in-law, so her daughter-in-law will also be her sister-in-law. And if she were to have kids by Loras, Joffrey would be both their uncle by marriage and their half-brother. Which is kind of making my head spin!

[paratti.livejournal.com]

Still not Hapsburg bad though;)

Fantastic episode.

[jgracio.livejournal.com]

Very much so. Is there ever any explanation?

At least, on the face of it it's "People pray to entity, entity answers prayers, is a proper D&D God".

I'm sure it won't be quite as simple though, nothing ever is in GoT.

[shapinglight]

As long as it doesn't turn out to be some sort of Christian (or any other religion) parable, I'm good.

[shapinglight]

Well, Robb's certainly his father's son, isn't he? Because sticking to honour above all always works so well in this story.

Yes, the best you can say really is that he wasn't around in season 1 to see how badly Ned messed up in Kingslanding.

I didn't find Bolton Snr's greeting funny. Being so squeamish, I think I'm just traumatised by the mere thought of what might be going on inside his head. :whimper:

I'm really starting to wonder if they're setting up an alliance between Tyrion and Cersei against their father. Or at least trying to make us think they're doing that.

I suppose it's possible, though I'd rather see a Tyrion/Sansa alliance.

A little more Joffrey slappage and these last two episodes would have been almost perfect.

Yes, it's been a bit light on that. But maybe Margaery is slapping him behind the scenes.

There's always hope.

[shapinglight]

Just needed to wait to break it out!!

:)

And Jaime carries around this image of Cersei that's not necessarily who she really is, though he is usually good at reading people, while Cersei ... let us say that I think Lena Headey said something very perceptive when she said at one point that Cersei wants to be Jaime more than anything.

Oh boy, this gets more Spike/Buffy-like all the time.

Except not, of course, in that Buffy never wanted to be Spike, and Jaime/Cersei feels a whole lot more like Spike/Dru than Spike/Buffy.

But still, there are similarities.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Oh, in this parallel, Cersei is DEFINITELY Drusilla - the way Jaime's relationship with her has defined his life until he meets Brienne, just as Spike's relationship with Drusilla defined his existence as a vampire until he met and loved Buffy. Cersei didn't MAKE Jaime in quite the same way that Dru made Spike, but his love for her has defined him (and Jaime has that whole "fool for love" thing down.) Once I got to Book 3, I totally understood why my friend thought I would like this character!

Brienne, for all her total lack of physical similarity to tiny Buffy, IS the Buffy in this one. She makes Jaime somehow want to be a better man or to be the better man he once was, and she *does* want to be Jaime (not Jaime specifically, but she envies that he's a knight - in the books she tells him that he basically soiled the white cloak he wears as a member of the Kingsguard, and it is so painful for her because that is what she wants so badly. This early on, when their relationship is more antagonistic, but there is a lovely callback to it later on.)

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

That's probably a good episode, but it was the one to suffer the most from me reading the books... It had people having long conversations directly from the books, no surprises and just me checking mental boxes - yes, this happened, then this etc. It was very literal adaptation for the most part.

And the only time it got creative and strayed from the books it made me furious! I'm talking about Loras character assassination. Ugh, I shouldn't be so invested in a minor character and a dead ship as it's obvious they are washing it down the drain.
Now I see why Loras was playing background furniture instead of being awesome and still hurting for Renly like in the book - it's to set up a way for LF to learn that he marries Sansa...
To be fair, in the books it was never clear how LF knew, so they took pains to explain it for the viewers. Still, I'm bitter and it spoiled the episode for me.

But with this out of the way - yes, the scenes with Brienne and Jaimie, and the last one with Tywin, Cersei and Tyrion were the best. And with Tyrion and Olenna - but then they are the best characters in King's Landing at the moment.

Oh, and I loved Shireen, Stannis's daughter! She's very sweet indeed, and Davos too, with his admission he can't read. He's so sincere, it's refreshing.

Berek Dondarrion is not very convincing for me. He looks too jovial and round-faced. In the book he's gaunt, creepy, half-dead looking. Certainly not like this guy.

Ah, and Robb is following in Ned Stark's footsteps: he just got to chop a bloke's head even if it doesn't make any sense, just because he's too stiff and has to follow the letter of the law. Ned started with chopping that poor fugitive's head, and look where it got him...

But I missed last week, and I loved last week's episode so much! The end with Dany was stunning, and I loved how episode was like a commentary on the role of women. How Olenna and Cersei questioned their role, how it pushed Cersei to confront her father, how Brienne was bitter in her "you are like a woman" to Jaimie - I'm sure the aftermath of her near rape played a part here, and how it finished with a woman, Dani, taking charge and being magnificent.
And Tywin is right - Cersei is stupid, because she's cruel and mean. That's what makes her stupid, just like Jeoffrey.

[shapinglight]

Cersei didn't MAKE Jaime in quite the same way that Dru made Spike, but his love for her has defined him (and Jaime has that whole "fool for love" thing down.) Once I got to Book 3, I totally understood why my friend thought I would like this character!

It's very hard for me to understand Jaime's love for Cersei, though, because she's just so horrible. I know Dru was horrible too, but she had this wounded bird, vulnerable quality which made it understandable why Spike should want to take care of her. Cersei doesn't have that.

But I appreciate I'm probably missing some of the nuance, not having read the books.

And I can see Brienne as Buffy. Very much so. I mean, they're not the same at all, but there are similarities.

Does that make sense?

[shapinglight]

but it was the one to suffer the most from me reading the books... It had people having long conversations directly from the books, no surprises and just me checking mental boxes - yes, this happened, then this etc. It was very literal adaptation for the most part.

I'm sorry it didn't work for you. That all went over my head, of course, only having read the first book (and having no intention of reading any more).

I don't know if I agree that Loras isn't still hurting for Renly. I don't think that would necessarily stop him having sex with someone else, given that Renly's dead. The sex might not mean that much to him, though. Anyway, sorry you didn't like it. This doesn't seem a show to get too invested in any pairing. GRRM seems to have a Joss-like way of stomping pairings into the ground. I love Dany/Jorah to bits, but I've had to give myself a good talking to and distance myself from it, because I know it'll never come to anything (except horrible angst, that seems like a given).

But with this out of the way - yes, the scenes with Brienne and Jaimie, and the last one with Tywin, Cersei and Tyrion were the best. And with Tyrion and Olenna - but then they are the best characters in King's Landing at the moment.

Yes, all three were terrific scenes. Lady Olenna is good in every scene. I loved her with Varys. What a woman. I think Tywin probably admires her a lot more than he admires Cersei (who I don't think he admires at all. Or even likes).

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

Rewatched at my parents, to the soundtrack of their cat snoring very loudly and my dad arriving home just in time for a beheading. I give up.

[lyr]

Oh, that bath scene was just exactly perfect! It was even better than I imagined when I read it. I really love that duo in the books, as much as I totally never wanted to like Jaime, and I think that is really the first of their major defining moments that made me love them.

[shapinglight]

:)

That's good - not least because it strongly suggests there's more good stuff to come.

[shapinglight]

;(

[lyr]

Well, no spoilers about how it does or doesn't work out, but I will own that they are actually my favorite pairing of GoT, a fact that still surprises me when I consider what I thought of Jaime early on.

[shapinglight]

Well, I'm beginning to understand why. :)