Buffy season 10 no 21

[shapinglight]

Review behind cut.

Unlike the previous issue, this one did not improve on re-reading.



In actual fact, it got worse. The main reason for this is season 8, which makes my icon very appropriate. The whole season 8 Twilight fiasco really did throw Buffy and Angel as characters under a bus, didn't it? Angel more so, of course, but latterly Buffy, if only because, in their desperate attempts to whitewash Angel and get him off the hook for all the appalling things that he did in season 8, the writers of these books keep putting words in Buffy's mouth to absolve him.

In this issue, they manage to make her come across as a massive hypocrite, not to mention completely useless, when she's confronted by Satsu (with whom she explored her bi-curiosity, if you remember, back in season 8?), who is apparently working with the US Army to combat various demon incursions, caused by the Restless Door portal, which Buffy and her friends failed to take off the three stooges the Mistress, Soul Glutton and Sculptor in the Angel-comes-visiting arc (this is where the uselessness comes in).

The hypocrisy bit applies when Buffy gets all self-righteous at Satsu for working with the army -"The 'declared Slayers an enemy of the state and went to war against us and killed lots of our friends' army." When Satsu says that the people responsible for that policy are either dead or in jail, Buffy gets angry and asks, "What about all the ones who enthusiastically followed their orders?" Satsu then responds by saying that everything Buffy says about the army applies to Angel too, and she hears that Buffy forgave him. "And don't give me that 'he was possessed' line." Buffy responds that he was possessed, and that he's 'kind of gullible when it comes to destiny.'

Are we actually supposed to think this is a good excuse? I don't know. All I know is, even Angel himself hasn't claimed that he was possessed all the time. Yet here Buffy is waving away all his culpability and blaming it on the army (who might never have become involved at all if Twi-Angel hadn't invited them to).

This whole conversation just makes Buffy look so bad. It really does - and her demanding whether Satsu has forgotten 'they killed our sisters. Friends who died in our arms' really doesn't make it any better, given that in season 8 Buffy herself forgot them in an instant when Twi-Angel asked her if she wanted to be happy.

See what I mean about season 8 throwing Buffy and Angel under a bus? There really aren't any words Gage can put in her mouth (or in Angel's) to make that steaming pile of dung any less stinky.

(And just in case anyone feels inclined to compare Buffy forgiving Twi-Angel to Buffy forgiving Spike for the attempted rape, I'd just like to reiterate that the attempted rape only hurt Buffy (and Spike, but his pain ultimately isn't important). If she chooses to forgive him, that's her business and also affects no one but her and Spike. Twi-Angel's actions caused the deaths of hundreds (maybe thousands) of people, including Buffy's 'sisters.' I just end up thinking, no wonder the other Slayers now want nothing to do with her).

Poor Buffy!(and poor Angel!) What the hell was Whedon thinking?

Anyway, the main part of the issue consists of Buffy and Spike, at Satsu's urging, trying to get both vampire camps (Old School, led by Harmony, New Vamp, led by Vicki) to help the US Army fight the demon incursions (which, in an eerie-and not Gage's fault since he wrote this issue ages ago-echo of current world events, have apparently already killed three hundred people in Rome) as a matter of self-interest.

The vampires insist on whether they agree to help or not being decided by Buffy and Spike taking part in trial by combat. While Buffy is fighting her opponent, Harmony tries to undermine their relationship by telling Spike he can't handle a woman like Buffy, that he's built her up into an impossible ideal of womanhood and he's bound to find the reality doesn't live up to his expectations and ruin it all for himself by doing things to push her away so Buffy will be the one to dump him, the way Drusilla did, so he can then act the martyr. Then, while Spike is fighting his opponent, Vicki tries to psych out Buffy, telling her that she's bound to kick Spike to the kerb before long because she's the sort of girl who wants what she can't have. And isn't she a little old to still be into 'tortured bad boys' etc, etc?

After Buffy and Spike leave, Harmony and Vicki congratulate each other and decide they make pretty good partners. And it looks like they may be right, as neither Buffy nor Spike mention to the other what they said to them, and the issue ends with Spike meeting Mrs Marsters Dylan in a bar.

To me, this whole situation seems very artificial, especially given that, as of the end of the previous issue, Buffy and Spike seemed perfectly capable of talking to each other about very painful subjects. Not to to mention I still think Spike's tendency to 'push the woman he loves away,' as stated first by Angel, now by Harmony, is much exaggerated (or possibly non-existent), given that Spike and Dru were together for 120 years.

But oh well, we all knew it wouldn't last, I suppose.

So it looks like there's trouble ahead for Spuffy, and upcoming blurbs and covers emphasise that. In fact, the only thing they have going for them is the fact that, if the villains of the piece (for some completely inexplicable as yet reason) want them to break up so much, maybe ultimately they won't.

Not a lot else to say, except to reiterate how much I dislike Mrs Marsters Dylan being parachuted into comics canon, even though Gage breathes more life into the character in one panel, where she only says three words, than James Marsters did in the entirety of his Spike comic.

Comments

[rahirah]

I've been expecting Dylan to show up again for a long time, so this is overdue, I guess.

I really, really hate that Satsu/Buffy conversation. I'm not sure if it's worse if they really believe that's a good argument on Buffy's side, or if they know she sounds like a total hypocrite, and don't care.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

It really sounds like the they're using her for a stand-in for them. Buffy=Writers, Satsu=Fans. Because the crap they have her say is the same crap the writers used to defend Angel after it happened.

But I think it's also true they stopped caring about the character a long time ago. Either it's an active attempt to trash her or they think the aura of Buffy Summers is big enough it won't touch bother fans. Which they're very wrong about. After 3 entire seasons of this stuff? I can't help but think it's the former.

[sandy-s.livejournal.com]

Not a lot else to say, except to reiterate how much I dislike Mrs Marsters Dylan being parachuted into comics canon

Agreed.

Do you think that Dylan will become a permanent character in the comic?

[shapinglight]

I'm not sure if it's worse if they really believe that's a good argument on Buffy's side, or if they know she sounds like a total hypocrite, and don't care.

When it's a choice between stupidity and conspiracy, I usually come down on the side of stupidity. In this case, though, I'm inclined to think it might be both.

It's probably stupidity, though. The only review I've read just thinks it's great continuity that the comic references events from previous seasons.

[shapinglight]

I can't think of any other reason for bringing Mrs Marsters Dylan into the comics except to cause tension between Spike and Buffy.

Whether she'll stick around long-term, I don't know. It seems weird that she'd spend all this time looking for Spike (how did she even know he was in SF?) given how they parted in JM's Spike comic if she just meant to go home again once she caught up with him.

Hopefully, we won't see much of her, though (though I'm expecting a scene where Buffy sees Spike talking to her through a window or some such, waits to see if he tells her about it, he doesn't, things start festering between them, cliched though that is).

[singedbylife.livejournal.com]

Great review as always. You're so much more productive than I am.

I thought the whole issue was utter crap (except for Spike's comment about remembering Satsu's and Buffy's fling and "Feel free to share stories if uou'd like.")

And I actually really, really like Jasmin Marsters. I follow her on social media and she seems to be a really nice, and kind person with a sense of humor. I'm happy for James Marsters that he managed to get her on the hook. She's been nothing but good for him.

BUT she does not have any place as a stand-in character in the Buffy verse and I cannot fathom what made Cage and Whedon (if he's involved) decide that this pretty much booed-out character in the fandom should return to canon!verse and have any part in it whatsoever. Frankly it makes me feel nearly sick. I don't need real life and the Buffy verse to clash like this and it gives me the heebie-jeebies. Bad call! Bad issue. Bad, bad, bad.

[teragramm.livejournal.com]

I did not read (nor do I ever intend to) Season 8. So to me the whole Buffy/Satsu speech did not come off as hypercritical, it came off as Buffy defending someone she once loved and maybe being a little blind about his involvement in the whole mess. But I might be a little naive about the whole issue.

I am also hopping, the writers are trying to make us think, they are going to break up Buffy and Spike by the whole Harmony, Vicki, Dylan thing but it's just to get the fans a little riled up. But as I said before I might be a little naive about the whole issue.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

Just finished reading it, and I pretty much agree overall. My initial reaction to Satsu's calling Angel out and Buffy for forgiving him was Thank God. It's about time! And then when Buffy defended him... I was terribly disappointed in her. Although, as you said, they basically through Buffy and Angel under the bus in Season 8, and I'm not sure there's a way out of that little bit of character assassination. And don't get me started on bringing Dylan back in. Just because James wanted to write a comic for her, doesn't mean the DH folks are obligated to keep it up. They do seem to be setting the pair up for a fall....
Buffy's knowing that Harmony and company had been running their mouths to make Spike mad, and her calm acknowledgement that anger would make him stronger, was nice. I hated to see that fall apart just because they tried to rub in how violent he is. Pretty sure she got that memo long ago....
But, looking for consistency of character and plot in the comics seems to be a lost cause, no matter who is writing them.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

Season 8 was disgusting and just... who the hell are these characters? much of the time. And there is no way Buffy was blind to anything once the gold dust wore off. Having her defend Angel to Satsu is lousy writing.
As we all know, the path of love can be rocky, so I'm hoping Dylan's arrival is just a way to give Buffy and Spike another roadblock to surmount. I'd like to think they are both secure enough, and smart enough to recognize what Harmony and Vicki were doing, but the lack of talking about it doesn't bode well....

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

Threw, not through! Gah! and it won't let me fix it because it's been replied to all ready.

[shapinglight]

Blimey, I really hope my comments about the character don't come across as bashing the real, actual Jasmine Marsters?

From all I know about her (which is not a lot, admittedly), she's really lovely and James is very lucky to be married to her.

I only refer to Dylan as Mrs Marsters all the time because JM explicitly said that the character's physical appearance was based on Jasmine's. I don't know at all if they're alike personality-wise.

Anyway, I did find it a bit icky that he stuck his wife in the comic, but I could cope with it as long as the story was tucked away in its own non-comics-canon box. Like that, it was just a nice little story. But then they had to bring Mrs Marsters Dylan into the main Buffy comic. I just find that irritating because there was just so much wrong with JM's story continuity-wise - and though they probably won't refer to his story at all in the Buffy comic, it does sorta kinda 'canonise' it, and since, as I said, that messes so badly with season 7 canon, it annoys me.

And the comics as a whole - not just the Dark Horse ones but also IDW's stuff - have yet to introduce a character solely as a love interest and make that character at all interesting. With the possible exception of Satsu, but in retrospect, that looks even more like a gimmick to create publicity than it did at the time.

[shapinglight]

it came off as Buffy defending someone she once loved and maybe being a little blind about his involvement in the whole mess.

That's certainly how it comes across in the Angel arc. Trouble is, what Angel did in season 8 (with a soul) was so heinous it made Angelus's antics in season 2 seem quite parochial and harmless in comparison. Going 'large,' as Joss admitted he did in season 8 because there were no budget restraints as in the show, did not do either Angel or Buffy any favours.

As for what is going on with Buffy, Spike, Mrs Marsters Dylan etc, I honestly can't see any reason to include Dylan in the story if it's not as a catalyst to break up Buffy and Spike. I hoped they might get a bit longer (Harmony makes it sound as if they haven't been together for even a month yet), but I have all along expected they wouldn't last as a couple, if only because this comic still has Whedon's name on it as executive producer, or whatever.

[shapinglight]

Although, as you said, they basically through Buffy and Angel under the bus in Season 8, and I'm not sure there's a way out of that little bit of character assassination.

There isn't for Angel. A&F in season 9 was one long whitewash attempt, and I'm afraid for me it just didn't work at all. They just went far too far with the character.

Buffy would have been okay, I think, but they keep using her to further whitewash Angel, and it just ends up making her look worse.

If they really wanted to save them both, it would probably have been better to have the last issue of season 8 showing them all waking up from a very weird dream.

[shapinglight]

but the lack of talking about it doesn't bode well...

No, it doesn't.

I'm wondering yet again what the point was of that boring Spike mini series in season 9. He was supposed to have taken these lessons (about not putting someone under pressure by making his world all about them) to heart in that, wasn't he?

[singedbylife.livejournal.com]

No, I just wanted to clarify that I don't actually have anything against her (either). I just feel uncomfortable with her face showing up as a possible love interest for Spike (which is completely ooc behaviour for Spike in the first place.)

I don't like how they are letting him meet with this lady whom he's sort of dated or fancied a while back (ack) without telling his current girlfriend, Buffy about it. I don't think that's a thing Spike would do, really. And I'm not trying to sound like some of the irrational or rather childish fans of both Angel (Buffy's 4ever love) or Spuffy sometimes do, but truly if there is one thing that characterizes Spike it's his faithfulness to the women he loves. He is simply not the sort of man who cheats or who looks for other women's company if he's with the woman he is in love with. Spike is a lot of things but he's love's bitch first and foremost and right now he's with the woman he's in love with, and they haven't even been a actual couple for all that long. So what we see here is just terribly out of character for both of them right now and that's a shame.

And they were doing so well with this season. :(

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

If they really wanted to save them both, it would probably have been better to have the last issue of season 8 showing them all waking up from a very weird dream.

Yep.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

I'm going to be the Spuffy outlier on this one. I mostly loved this issue! Things I liked:

1. Feel free to share stories if you'd like. This is perfect breezy, settled coupley stuff. Also, Spike being embarrassed about sticking up for Riley was nice.
2. Grumpy Giles. I don't mind that he's upset about missing out on teh sex. I would be, too.
3. Harmony on the unicorn. Harmony in the bubble bath, Buffy not wanting an eyeful of Harmony. Spike too annoyed to notice.
4. The GRR Martin stuff. Slow-writing prat. Heh.
5. Harmony policing her people. NON-fatal amounts!
6. The combat stuff. Especially Clem apologizing for his intro.
7. Buffy being unconcerned about Spike because she knew they made him mad and, like her, he uses his emotions to win.

As for the Buffy hypocrisy, well, yes. She's being a hypocrite. It's not the first time. She's always been overly forgiving of the people she loves, and makes all kinds of exceptions that she probably shouldn't. For Willow, for Spike, for Andrew, for Giles. I'll never understand how she could EVER be in the same room with Angel after S8 and not dust him, but this conversation shed a tiny bit of light on that. We've never really heard what Buffy has to say about Angel's part in things. I don't think she's right, but I'm glad she's said what her reasoning is. Because you can't change anything about it if it's all bottled up. Maybe she'll eventually see the error of her ways. Or maybe she'll just keep forgiving people, whether they deserve it or not.

Interesting end-run around how chummy she seemed with Riley at her house party in S9. I guess I hadn't really grasped that he was her double-agent to that extent, or that his ties with the army were suspended. Again? It didn't seem like they were, and she was perfectly fine with him, so this indignation comes out of left field. That might be a goof by the writers, but who really cares what Riley's doing anyway?

Harmony and Vicki were annoying, but I don't think that their digs were correct at all. I don't think that Spike has ever pushed a lover away, except for Harmony. I don't think that Buffy has got tired of lovers because they were too "attainable", like, ever. Essentially they were telling both of them that they wanted out..and there's no evidence that's so. It's perfectly natural that Spike and Buffy would get angry at people talking trash about their relationship, regardless of how far off the mark that talking is.

They've got to realize that there are a lot of people who would love to break them up, for strategic or ideological reasons. They will have to withstand a lot more slings and arrows than Harmony & Vicki.

As for Dylan, I have no idea. The story where she first appeared didn't make sense, and I failed to get any kind of romantic vibe out of it. I could be totally blocking. I don't know why she's there, but I guess we'll find out. Tangentally, is the fire-girl from the IDW books an IDW-owned character? Because that's the person that should have showed up to talk to Spike if he's feeling like he needs to bend an unbiased ear.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

I'm not unenjoying the Angel/Faith comics most of the time, but it hasn't given me any sense that Angel didn't go round the bend in season 8 and shouldn't pay for it. Much as I hate seeing Buffy as a victim, that would have been a better approach than to have her forgiving Angel for what he did. She did stand up to him and walk away when she saw what they were doing to the world, and that's the Buffy we needed to see from then on.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

All you plus points are spot-on. I didn't dislike the issue per se, just some of the "off" parts of it. I liked the way they depicted Spike and Buffy's relationship - right up until the end when they didn't just laugh off the attempts to drive a wedge. Even if they didn't laugh because they sensed some truth, (which as you point out, there really isn't) they would have at least reassured each other that Harmony was wrong. IMHO, anyway.
Riley was out of left field. I didn't know he was a double agent - missed that memo, apparently. (I'm not good with the apparent comic book tradition of changing artists so often it's hard to recognize characters. So I don't think I even knew Riley was around at the party.
Spike's (JM's) comic mostly made no sense, although I did get that we were supposed to be seeing an attraction there. I liked the IDW OCs much better, but they don't belong to Joss and I doubt IDW wants to share.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Forgot to mention that I also loved Harmony's toga guys. Harmony just keeps getting better. Or more effective. Or more self-actualized. Or something.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

You know, taking a look at it, I'm kinda wondering if it isn't going to turn out she's right about the military. For one, thanks to Gage's retcon whitewash, Angel *was* possessed when the girls were killed by Pearl and Nash. They also state that he was under varying degrees of influence throughout the season (up to the reader when/how much, naturally) and we can presume this includes Tibet and pretty much any time anything bad happened. Buffy's just saying what he wrote. She couldn't possibly know this, of course, just like Harm and Vicki couldn't know anything about their relationship and Angel wouldn't know anything about Spike's relationship issues.

For another, I have a hard time believing the military is going to be shown as good guys in a Joss Whedon story even with someone else writing it.

That combined with Harm and Vicki being up to something makes the suspect they're all being played.

[shapinglight]

Well, there's still the mysterious person in the cave who is 'running' Ghost Anya to be revealed, so we certainly haven't met all the villains yet.

I really, seriously doubt it will be the army, though.

You're right about what else you say, though, of course. As far as Gage is concerned, he got Angel off the hook enough in A&F season 9 for it to be quite okay for Buffy to forgive him.

I keep forgetting I'm not meant to believe that what we saw happen in season 8 actually happened. ;)

[shapinglight]

I agree with this pretty much, though it's perfectly fine for Spike to have female friends. As long as Buffy knows about them, and it seems like she doesn't.

[shapinglight]

I'm not against her forgiving him one day. I just don't think the story as told should be retconned the way it was in season 9 to make it easier for either of them.

Doesn't mean it couldn't happen eventually.

Also, I appreciate some fans think the same about Buffy forgiving Spike for the AR, but at least no one retconned that in season 7 and pretended it didn't happen, or it wasn't Spike's fault. Plus, as I said in my post, that was a personal matter. The Twilight thing in season 8 was global.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Why wouldn't you forget? It's not like Angel or Buffy ever actually had a conversation about it. Everything is told through 3rd person's so you're always left wondering if it's true.

Buffy says it was them spacefraking, but it was, but it wasn't, but it was, but wasn't. Then this season Dawn says it was the universe. Which is true, you know?

[shapinglight]

Beck definitely belongs to IDW and I'm pretty sure she'll never appear in a DH comic. I don't mind Spike having female friends, btw. It's nice - and makes sense that he would, like he friends with Fred. But it's a different matter if he's sneaking off to meet them behind Buffy's back and she doesn't know about it.

But maybe she does? We'll see.

I don't think what Harmony and Vicki said to Buffy and Spike is true either, but I've a horrid feeling Gage thinks it is. Harmony is only reinforcing what Angel said about Spike in the crossover arc. And though Angel's no judge, IMO, and Gage insisted what he said was only his opinion, I'm very suspicious of repetition like this in comic books. It has to be leading somewhere.

I hope I'm wrong. If (when) Buffy and Spike do break up, I'd like them to have had a lot more than three weeks (if Harmony's to be believed) to decide whether it will work or not.

I agree, btw, about the things you found fun in the comic. They were fun. I enjoyed Harmony, Queen of the Vampires.

[shapinglight]

Completely agree on that. I need a less mopey Harmony icon. I only have this one.

[shapinglight]

Buffy says it was them spacefraking, but it was, but it wasn't, but it was, but wasn't. Then this season Dawn says it was the universe. Which is true, you know?

So, ultimately, despite denying it, looks like DH have come down on the side of, they were raped by the universe.

The whole thing does my head in. Which is probably what they were relying on. None of it makes sense so stop trying to make sense of it and gratefully accept any retcon (which will probably make more sense) that comes along.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

*nods* Big difference, IMHO, between a personal attack from someone you habitually have physical encounters with and who is so appalled at himself he changes his entire world (soul); and a magical rape (cause it was, although that's not the big issue) from someone who wants you to help him destroy the world, and who has been responsible for hundreds of deaths, including girls who you feel responsible for. Personal matter between two people vs global damage that cannot all be explained away by waving your hand and saying "magic" and "he's easily lured into savior mode". Angel needed to be much more remorseful, IMO, and Buffy needs to have a much harder time forgiving and forgetting. But then, they didn't ask my opinion. (although they might get it anyway... :)

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Which I actually wouldn't mind except they clearly want the cheap angst for the characters. Angel was possessed/influenced/whatever'd? Ok, fine. Say it and be done with it. Right now it's he feels responsible, other characters hold him responsible, but the narrative tells us he wasn't.

Same with the spacefrak. The story pretty much outright says it was rape. Angel says just the issue before she would not be able to fight the glow. But of course by saying that, it shows Angel knew what was going to happen and thus, yes, nothing short of rape is what happened. But they can't have Angel hold that weight, you know?

Bah. But you're right. You're just supposed to go with it. My beef comes from like I said, Angel and the military is a false equivalence. So the call out scene just reads kinda dumb, especially from Satsu who was herself possessed by a vampkitty in S8. Given everything it leads to the impression that Buffy's probably going to end up right about them.

Or not.

Anyway, my projected plot is Willow teaches the army spells and it blows up in their faces. They spend the last arc 'owning' their decisions/betrayals in this one.

[singedbylife.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's the not telling her that's idiotic and too immature and ooc. Not the having a female friend which is perfectly alright. :)

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

I keep having more thoughts! It's seems the writers are finally letting Buffy say what she thinks about all these traumatic things that have happened to her (and the fans). Last issue she got to clear the air about the AR. This issue she addresses the Angel elephant in the room. IMO, it's way better than the writers ignoring that these are serious issues, which makes it look like Buffy doesn't think they are serious or hasn't even considered them at all. Maybe they'll even address what Buffy thought when she found out Spike wasn't dust someday...

If (when) Buffy and Spike do break up, I'd like them to have had a lot more than three weeks

Well, yeah. I mean, it's already been months, in my mind. I'm less concerned about Harmony and Angel's opinions on things than I would be about Willow, Xander, Dawn, and Giles who all seem very much on board or at least not bothered. Their enemies are always going to be stirring the pot, as it were.

All that said, I think there could have been a bit more reconnecting after Vegas. Even a hand squeeze would have been good at showing that they were okay.

One more thing I liked: Clem announcing that Buffy was wearing Rag and Bone. It means nothing to me, really, but one of my more fashionista FB friends posted a photo of her new Rag and Bone boots the same morning that the comic came out, so it felt very current.

[shapinglight]

They spend the last arc 'owning' their decisions/betrayals in this one.

That sounds pretty much right. I'd say it will all end in a big group hug, if it weren't that Gage has said not everyone will still be friends at the end of the season (or something like that).

[shapinglight]

All that said, I think there could have been a bit more reconnecting after Vegas. Even a hand squeeze would have been good at showing that they were okay.

Agree. For me, this is a far greater sign of trouble than Spike meeting Dylan (until we know more about the circumstances of that meeting anyway - though it does bug me a bit that he talks to her as if they know each other really well, when they only met once in their lives up till now - unless this is going to be another of those 'oh, it happened off panel' moments, like so much has been in the comics).

[kerry-220.livejournal.com]

Late to the party - hope that is okay?

First up I totally agree with you about S8 even though I'm looking over my shoulder at those who hold it in high esteem (Nuance! Subtext! Metaphor! Doncha get it? Uumm - no, but I'm really torn up about it...no, really) I'm just not sure that there aren't a whole lot of our own issues that cloud the debate as well.

We expect Angel white washing so that is all it is. I'm not so sure. I'm more inclined to think Rebcake is right in as much as Buffy will defend and those she loves. It was her go to in canon, so Gage shouldn't be wrong to call on it now.

We expect Spuffy to smash and burn. I've read over and over about 'just waiting for the other shoe to drop'. The little bit of mischief from Harmony and Vicki and the reappearance of Dylan could be nothing more than ill-advised footwear fondling, but we've been conditioned to expect the worst. Personally, I like the idea Spike might have someone in his life Buffy could actually be jealous about (wish it was Beck, tho). Canon never did him that favour.

Again I want to give Gage credit for trying to get the characters to own the nonsense of S8. That's a tough gig. How could Buffy not stake Angel on sight? Well, he was possessed....that'll work! It's either that or completely ignore it (read S9). They're not going to kill off Angel, so maybe this is the only way.

As a complete aside, I think coalitiongirl wrote a way better Satsu/Buffy/Spike reunion. But that's neither here nor there!

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Yeah. But then a few of the things Gage has said S10 was supposed to be about haven't really made an appearance.

Gage is G-rated. He makes Blues Clues seem edgy.

[shapinglight]

I'm sorry to say I have no idea what those are. ;)

[shapinglight]

Hi. Sorry for the slow response. I've been away, then busy.

I join you and thinking that the people who saw those things in season 8 were obviously reading a different comic to the pile of silly, badly drawn rubbish that I read. Season 8 will forever be a burden hanging around the comics characters' necks.

I agree that it's IC for Buffy to defend those she loves. I just take issue with the way she frames it here, particularly in conversation with Satsu. As for Angel whitewashing, I understand the reason for it (season 8 destroyed the character, the only ways back from that were either to pretend it never happened - not an option if they weren't going to go with 'season 8 was all a weird dream' - or to retcon it like mad) but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Harmony policing her people. NON-fatal amounts!

*LOL*

That was one of my favorite things in the entire comics. I think back to what a ditz Harmony was in canon (the stereotype of both a blond and a mean girl, as well as Spike's punching bag, to be polite about it) and since then she's become a real BAMF. Who'da thunk?

I actually didn't hate this issue...as much as I expected to, I guess? There is no way to get around the awfulness of S8, and I can appreciate Gage wanting to find a workaround, but Gage's framing just makes it that much worse, especially for Buffy's character. And I didn't buy the central premise. Spike and Buffy agree to the meeting but have no intel from Satsu that they are meeting with Harmony? Buffy, who feared becoming a killer, agreeing to kill demons in a staged fight? The entire issue spent poking holes in Buffy and Spike's self-confidence, while other, more interesting story lines are ignored? (Where's Willow been? Dawn? The Xander/Faux!Anya story/)

But beyond that, there was some fun to be had with Harmony running the show in Vegas. And I'm not a huge fan of Isaacs work to be honest, but she's great with settings and backgrounds so she was the right choice for the artwork (over Levins) and I'm not usually impressed with her sense of bodies in motion but she did a great job with the fight scenes and gave them a visceral quality that's usually lacking from her work.

And the bit where Spike lashes out verbally at Harmony felt really - harsh, in a good, believable way. I was worried that the issue was just going to be about proving that Spike is still "dark" and not suitable for Buffy *rolls eyes* until Buffy herself lashed out at Vickie to shut her mouth...which actually proved that not only does Buffy have her own darkness but that she and Spike really are very much peas in a pod.

I'm not convinced Gage is going to break them up or rather, that he's going to have them decide to break up "for reasons". It feels like their relationship has crossed hurdle after hurdle and there's something both heroic and tiresome about it. (Everybody is freaked about Dylan but what has she done? Nothing, really. He could be talking to her and airing his doubts, and she gives him some sound advice, just like Robin Wood gave Buffy in S9.)

I can see them actually coming to the end of the season and deciding that they've made the right choice and Buffy finally saying "ILY" (I may be the only Spuffy not waiting for her for her to say that because I see it in her actions but I know I'm supposed to want her to say that.) and then they're split apart when one of them is cast into another dimension or some such thing.

or maybe it'll all end with hugs and puppies after all. Gage seems awfully sentimental.

[shapinglight]

I think an awful lot will depend on whether or not there's to be a season 11. I'm beginning to think probably not, especially given that this mini series - set in season 1 - is out next year.

Dark Horse have form for retreating to the nice, safe (Spikeless) early seasons when they don't know where to take the story.

If season 10 is the last full comics season, I hope Gage will buck the trend and have Spike and Buffy agree that they work (more or less) but that this doesn't mean they have to stop trying. Or some such.

But I'm not holding my breath.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Apparently on the French fansite there's video of Nicholas Braden at a conference confirming there will be a Season 11, but I haven't watched the video myself. (And he's not a representative of DH, so for whatever that's worth....)
He confirmed that there will be surely a season 11 in comics, and will continue to co-write the series
http://slayerevival.com/2015/12/01/retour-sur-notre-rencontre-avec-nicholas-brendon-au-toulouse-game-show/?lang=en

(Isn't he supposed to be in rehab or something btw?)

I can see the S1 mini-series running alongside on it's own - I don't think the existence of one has to negate the other. They had comics stories (albeit "non-canon" ones) published while the tv series was on, after all. The world of the comics in general seems to be all about running mulitple stories simultaneously.

The early seasons mini may mean to appeal to another subset of fans who are not happy with S10 and hope for more Bangel action (actually, the mini may end up doing the same thing - teasing Bangel fans. Or at least, they'll see what they wish to see even if it isn't there on the page.)

But that just might be me being all optimistic and I'm willing to admit I might end up eating my words.