Aww! This takes me back.

[shapinglight]

Joss weighs in on Spuffel again, on some website I've never heard of.



Lastly, because I've seen a lot of people arguing about this online: Buffy/Spike or Buffy/Angel?
Joss: I’m a Buffy/Spike shipper. I always felt like he was a more evolved person, but that’s like saying Juliet’s going to be so happy with Benvolio and everyone will love it. Buffy/Angel is for the ages; Buffy/Spike is maybe for me. Actually, I’m a Spike/Angel shipper. Completely re-write the equation.

Somehow or other, he manages to please/piss off both major 'shipping groups (if they've even noticed) yet again. Quite clever really. ;)

Lucky for me I can still incline towards that third option. ;)

Comments

[kikimay]

LOL, Joss! Yes, that third option would be nice ... but I'm completely sure it would still bother the hell out of certain people (Aka: Spike haters and/or Angel haters)

And that's "why we can't have nice things". LOL.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Pretty much the same thing he said before when Much Ado was coming out.

I'm still not really a fan of the tone involved or the trophy implications. I know he has to say something, but using the same perspective as fans doesn't appeal to me.

After watching S5 not that long ago, I'm not sure I buy Spike is all that more evolved... Maybe if he took more convincing about Angel cut-your-nose-off-to-spite-your-face plan.

[double_dutchess]

Go Spangel!

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

Spangel forever - Joss found the perfect pairing!

[ex_peasant441]

Interesting that he claims not to believe other people will like Spuffy, as if it's something exclusive that only he gets. Weird attitude.

[chasingdemons.livejournal.com]

Damn it! Why couldn't we have had some Spike/Angel on the show then? Actual Spike/Angel. That would've been so amazing!

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

He loves stirring, doesn't he?

[shapinglight]

Oh yes, lots of people would hate it. At times, when I'm particularly annoyed with Angel, I hate it myself.

But :shrug: I started off as a Spangel 'shipper.

[shapinglight]

I agree with you about Spike in season 5 of AtS, but then I think he was devolved because it was Angel's show, which, you know, I understand, even if I don't like it.

Joss seems to base this Spike being more evolved business on the fact that Spike went and got himself a soul on purpose (and I notice that Joss never, ever addresses the fact that they made it so unclear at the time that was what was going on that people are still arguing about it now) ie. that he was more 'human' as a soulless vampire than Angelus was. It certainly doesn't seem to mean that he was more evolved post-soul. In fact, the fact that he doesn't get the chance to evolve more and (hopefully) become a better person is one of my chief gripes about him being in AtS at all. It was one step forward (as it were) two steps back, and then the show got cancelled so we never got to see if he would take those two steps forward again.

It being Angel's show, though, as previously mentioned, probably not.

[shapinglight]

It definitely has its merits. The show would never, ever have gone there, though. Not openly.

[shapinglight]

It certainly has its good points. ;)

[shapinglight]

Yes, very weird, given that Spuffy 'shippers probably make up the largest single bloc of BtVS fans still extant (not saying they're the majority of fans, just the largest discrete group).

I also find his Benvolio comparison a bit odd. Okay, I get the Buffy/Angel=Romeo/Juliet thing, but personality wise, Spike is much more like Mercutio, the crazy best friend, not Benvolio the sensible one. If Benvolio's anyone, he's Xander.

[shapinglight]

They were never going to do it back then, were they? Even now they'd probably hesitate.

I base this on Lucifer, in which we're meant to infer that Lucifer himself is bisexual from one solitary scene in season 1 in which he wakes in bed with a woman and another man, the woman being in the middle. According to what they said on Twitter, the writers feel this is enough to establish Lucifer's bisexual credentials and they don't have to do any more.If they're still that cagey about showing m/m (not the case with f/f, of which there's quite a lot more) now, they were never going to do it back then. ;(

[shapinglight]

Well, to be fair, he was asked. He didn't bring up the subject himself.

[ex_peasant441]

Perhaps Spike was always intended to be the calm and sensible one and it just all went horribly wrong when fans insisted on interpreting him as a rebel...

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think he mentioned him choosing to get the soul the first time he said the evolved thing.

Which will forever bug me because of the storyline that led up to it. Yeah, he went to get the soul, but it wasn't exactly thoroughly altruistic thing. I just wish he'd use a different word, especially when relating it to ships. I think we talked about it before. If the soul came from the bathroom, then everything stems from that...so it comes off as rewarding it.

Actually what I really wish is they'd never have used that impetus for the soul quest.

[snogged.livejournal.com]

LOL.

I prefer Spangel too.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I'm still not really a fan of the tone involved or the trophy implications. I know he has to say something, but using the same perspective as fans doesn't appeal to me.

Yeah I tend to agree, I'm not sure what Spike being more evolved as a character has to do with romantic choices, but it always seems to come down to arguing over the men and which man is better for Buffy... I'm a Spuffy shipper obviously, but if we're going to start boiling it down to arguing over which vampire is ~better~ for Buffy, umm neither is really ideal boyfriend material?

I can't think of what Joss said exactly now, but I remember a few years ago he talked about personally being more drawn to Spuffy as a ship because there's no end to the stories that you could tell about them together, whereas Buffy/Angel was always more about them being epic and star-crossed, and finding reasons to keep them apart. (I'm probably horribly misquoting him, I can't seem to find the actual interview now, but I remember it was something along those lines of Spuffy and their bickering being more entertaining to him as a writer?) And that makes way more sense to me than just going with, "Oh Spike was the more evolved person", in response to that question, that does sound more like something that you would hear in a fan argument lol

[lycoris.livejournal.com]

Welp, clearly a threesome is the only way to go! Everyone will be happy! :)

[yourlibrarian]

Exactly, and so many more possibilities for stories!

[elisi]

*points to icon*

:)

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

That kinda sounds like his quote about them when he was doing Much Ado interviews. He said Spuffy was more like that ship, arguing over the wedding and whatnot, and Bangel was more like Twilight. Kiddie stuff.

To me, Spike and Angel are different in their outlooks. Spike is more of a proactive doer and Angel sort of responds to things. Both viewpoints have their merits and drawbacks. Considering S5 ends with both of them on the same page in many ways, I just really don't understand the "evolved" comment regarding the story. Frankly, I think it just boils down to him re-imagining the characters to justify his current story. He said some even more bizarre comments Buffy-wise during that time.

[feliciacraft.livejournal.com]

I've reached Enlightenment and no longer rely on Joss's words to justify my emotional attachment to completely fictional pairings. Trying to cling to an impermanent state is futile, and every pairing within Joss's world is impermanent.

Remarkable that people still care enough to ask him, isn't it? :)

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Thank you for sharing that link! I hadn't seen it yet and it is always good to read some Whedon. He is still my hero. <3

[tripleransom.livejournal.com]

I like the way you think!

[shapinglight]

Coming back weeks later to answer this (and it now seems more trivial than ever), but yes, definitely. I think they chose the worst way possible to start off the soul quest, both in terms of what it did the character of Spike, and in terms of what its outcome implies.

:Sigh:

[shapinglight]

I do, and sometimes I don't. ;)

[shapinglight]

I've always thought so. :)

[shapinglight]

:Points to other icon:

[shapinglight]

It is. Just goes to show, I suppose, that the majority of people are obsessed with these things.

I'm a big fan of Lucifer (as may possibly be apparent) and I know that big 'shipping groups have sprung up in that fandom too. I'm having nothing to do with it myself - or I'm 'shipping Lucifer/Lucifer's Massive Ego.

[shapinglight]

I do wonder what he's up to at the moment. He's been really quiet for ages.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Well, he was very active the last month or so of the election with the "Save The Day. Vote." campaign, now he is wallowing in darkness with the rest of us.

But prior to that I *thought* he was working on a graphic novel series but I haven't heard much about it since the initial tease a few years ago.

[shapinglight]

Well, he was very active the last month or so of the election with the "Save The Day. Vote." campaign, now he is wallowing in darkness with the rest of us.

Ah. Well, understandable.

[feliciacraft.livejournal.com]

I have a personal limit of fangirling one active OTP at a time. Spuffy is enough for me to handle. Too emotionally exhausting.

Have fun watching Lucifer. By all accounts it's a good show, which is something to celebrate in and of itself!

[shapinglight]

Thanks. :)

It is a good show. Not as good as BtVS, obvs, but I don't think there are any genre shows that can compare with that really.