Lucifer season 2 episode 9

[shapinglight]

God, I'm such a dinosaur! No one does stuff like this on LJ any more, do they? Reviews of TV shows, I mean.

Well, anyway...

Spoilers behind cut



For me, this show is more and more fun every week. This episode was dripping in sarcastic Trump references (though again, it must have been written and filmed before the election), plus it had a great Lucifer/Amenadiel scene at the beginning, Ella speaking Klingon, Dan getting it on with 'Mum,' which leads to a great Amenadiel/Maze scene at the end. Plus, there's the terrific 'Mum'/Dr Linda scene in the middle, with the deathless conversation about how 'Mum' doesn't like to be 'defined' as God's ex. Heh!

Sadly, though, it's plain as plain now that 'Mum' is just evil, and if you can excuse her disdain for humans as being down to the fact that she had nothing to do with creating them, and feeling that they took 'Dad's' attention away from her own children (and her), you can't really excuse the way she's manipulating Amenadiel for her own ends. That's not a motherly thing to do at all.

'Course, I suppose you could say that human standards don't necessarily apply to the goddess of creation, and you could get way with that in a comic book, but in a TV show with live actors, it really doesn't work as well and 'Mum' just comes across as spiteful and manipulative.

I wonder now if everything she's said to both Lucifer and Amenadiel is a lie, and all the time she's just out for revenge on both of them - Amenadiel for carrying her to Hell, and Lucifer for keeping her there. Which reminds me, as far as we know, Lucifer has never actually asked Amenadiel why 'Dad' threw 'Mum' out of heaven in the first place. I wonder if we'll ever find out?

We'll see, I suppose- some time next May.

:Sigh: That's the thing about full 22 episode TV series. You have such long hiatuses to get through.

Anyway, I'm glad that Dr Linda has finally made Lucifer confront and understand his feelings about Chloe. Really not surprised he didn't turn up for their date. Roll on episode 10 (even though I know it'll end on an awful cliffhanger and there won't be another episode for ages).

Comments

[tx-cronopio.livejournal.com]

Hee! I still post TV reviews, but then, I'm a dinosaur.

Lucifer is definitely on my to-do list.

[yourlibrarian]

I think people do still post episode reviews but I agree with you that I see a lot less of it than I used to. It makes me wonder if a big part of the reason is because there are so many commercial spaces that now do this.

The other reason, I'm guessing, is because people aren't feeling sufficiently fannish about what they're watching to do so or to do it consistently. That's certainly true in my case.

Lastly, I suspect it just depends on what we mean by "episode review." I remember back when I was in the SPN fandom that there were maybe a dozen people who actually did full reviews of every episode -- which isn't that many given how many people were in it. A lot more people would do episode squee posts or reaction posts or maybe a meta on particular episodes. I'm subscribed to someone who is still doing reaction posts to each episode 12 seasons in.

I'm still an episode behind you! Mike has very little viewing time these days and he really likes the show so we're not quite keeping up.

[shapinglight]

Lucifer is definitely on my to-do list.

It's fun. At least, I think so. I have yet to meet anyone who likes it as much as I do, though. ;)

[shapinglight]

I think people do still post episode reviews but I agree with you that I see a lot less of it than I used to. It makes me wonder if a big part of the reason is because there are so many commercial spaces that now do this.

The other reason, I'm guessing, is because people aren't feeling sufficiently fannish about what they're watching to do so or to do it consistently. That's certainly true in my case.

I'm sure it's to do with both reasons, though the bitter old fan in me is convinced that it's because people would rather chuck gifs of their favourite moments from the show at each other on Tumblr, which always strikes me as a particularly pointless exercise, but to each their own. ;)

I'm glad Mike likes the show. Have to admit, I love it. I keep telling myself it's not all that (I know it isn't), but I just love it.

[yourlibrarian]

It occurred to me after I replied that another reason might be that more people are now watching shows after the fact -- either weeks later, or even years later. For example, I didn't post anything about the early seasons of Merlin but I did post about the last season. That's because I watched S5 in real time (with the U.S. broadcast that is).

Obviously there's no reason not to post reviews years after a show has aired (or ended). But I think the whole "fannish excitement" angle is probably affected by realizing that a lot of your audience probably won't read them or has moved on from the show.

And speaking of Merlin, let me add that I'm just happy to hear that you're loving Lucifer because I know you felt fannish blahs for some time. Merlin was not a good show on virtually any axis one could name which made it incredibly frustrating for me to watch. But I did watch all of it and I'm reading the fanfic still and I was clearly fannish about it. Some shows just hook us emotionally and that's all there is to it.

Your comment about gifs made me a little thinky. On the one hand, a gif or gifset is definitely not the same as an episode review. But on the other, it usually is a form of commentary about a show. It can be the equivalent of a squee post or an episode reaction, selecting things that stood out to that person for whatever reason. And it usually takes at least as long to put those together as to to write a few paragraphs about a show.

However, it can't really be meta. I've seen some that come close. For example, they take a scene from two different episodes, or two different points of an episode, and compare them. I just saw one recently for SPN that did a great job of contrasting an early season and the current one. However that's the problem with images -- they're too open to interpretation. Usually unless the images are accompanied by text, it's pretty difficult to make an argument with them. That still has to be done in the text box.

[kathyh]

It's lovely to see reviews still being posted so I don't think you're a dinosaur at all. I've heard very good things of Lucifer but I haven't seen it yet. I think that's one of the reasons there aren't so many review posts as we're all watching in such a fractured way and I'm very seldom in synch even with other people watching the same show. There just doesn't seem to be as much fannish excitement around these days, which given everything going on is not that surprising but I do miss it.

[shapinglight]

Yes, me too. I suppose if it exists at all, it happens on other platforms.

And it's true of course that the way we watch TV has become so fragmented that it's impossible to keep up with everything people are watching.

I'm only able to watch Lucifer because S mistakenly signed up for Amazon Prime and I then twisted his arm to keep it (because I was half way through The Man in the High Castle and wanted to finish it).

[shapinglight]

It occurred to me after I replied that another reason might be that more people are now watching shows after the fact -- either weeks later, or even years later. For example, I didn't post anything about the early seasons of Merlin but I did post about the last season. That's because I watched S5 in real time (with the U.S. broadcast that is).

This is true. I have a logjam of things I want to watch on both Amazon and Netflix, and limited time (plus a dodgy internet connection) stopping me from getting on with it. ;)

But I think the whole "fannish excitement" angle is probably affected by realizing that a lot of your audience probably won't read them or has moved on from the show.

Yes, very much so. I did hope there might be a bit of Lucifer talk, though, because it's airing on network TV in the US and presumably available to lots of people?

And speaking of Merlin, let me add that I'm just happy to hear that you're loving Lucifer because I know you felt fannish blahs for some time.

I have. I've been a one fandom woman for years. Occasionally, something crops up that I really like but I think this is only the third time I've felt genuinely fannish. And it's true fannishness doesn't always reflect quality, though having said that, I don't think Lucifer is a bad show, just that it could be better.

ETA: I take on board what you say about gifsets. They can make comments on things in their own way. I guess I just get fed up when people use them instead of actually writing anything.

[yourlibrarian]

No, you're right, it's not a bad show. They play fast and loose with what could be done professionally in a number of ways, and convenience is the order of the day. For example, Lucifer was established as bi in the pilot episode and yet we've seen no hint of it since. And as I'm unfamiliar with the comics, I'm blissfully unaware of how they may be twisting and changing it in ways which make it more of a nod to the original than an interpretation.

I remember my initial response to seeing Lucifer was that it was a supernatural version of Castle -- something that ABC had itself tried with Ioan Gryffud in Forever, but which failed to catch on in the same way. In that show the big problem (to me) was that they used his supernatural backstory more as window dressing and failed to really explore it, instead just making it a procedural with a lead who had a secret. The development of side characters was also slow.

Lucifer is not making that mistake. The procedural parts are a side issue to the main one which is Lucifer's backstory, and his personal development. So it's automatically been more interesting. This season it's also starting to do another important thing, which is that it's giving its supporting characters more to do.

To me the major weakness of the show is twofold and that's with the one-note element of its leads. Lucifer needs more highs and lows in his way of dealing with things. The actor even has a vocal delivery pattern that is the same with virtually everything. I think the writers are working on that as well -- for example, the ending of the episode where he kills Uriel brought more genuine emotion than in the various scenes before that where he's brooding at the piano or at the bar. It was a powerful moment, and we need more of those given the scale at which this story is operating.

The other problem is Chloe. There's not nearly enough variation in her performance either and, quite frankly, I don't see any chemistry between them, which is a problem when you've got a will-they-won't-they as a central element in a show. She's had some personal crisis here and there in different episodes -- notably her father's death this season. So, again, I think the writers are trying to give her paths in making Chloe more than the cliched straight man/straight arrow she's being forced to serve as within the show. But I'm starting to think she just doesn't have the range.

For example, Maze had a thankless role in S1 and it was very much a one-note one, until they paired her with Amenadiel. They're giving her opportunities now in S2 though and she's doing things with them. The trick or treating scene you liked, her conversation through Dr. Linda's door, those showed different sides of her -- poignant ones, in fact. I think were she in Chloe's role, she could make her more multi-dimensional and to my eyes, that's what the show is still lacking. Ultimately no matter how good the writing, there needs to be a spark between Lucifer and Chloe as well as within them. However, I think they were cast together more because someone thought they looked good than because they could bring that out in their characters or in one another.

Another good example is Trisha as Mom. She's an actress who does great in roles that demand a vulnerability that inspires empathy. That ability is exactly why we can be on the fence about what she's really up to. When she talks to her sons about what she's lost, we can believe her. Without that, we'd just wonder why her sons are being taken in. In fact, I still don't know if she means any of it or if she's genuine about wanting them together again -- but I think clearly her ambition to return home and (likely) challenge God is her main goal.

[shapinglight]

Very interesting comments, as usual. I have to disagree with you about the lack of chemistry between Lucifer and Chloe. I think it's quiet on her end, but I definitely can see it. I do agree that the actress is pretty one-note, though.

I also agree that it's good the procedural element is pretty much of an afterthought. It really is the least interesting thing about the show, though I do know what the writers are trying to do with it. Since they feel they can't follow any of the storylines from the comics, which aided Lucifer's personal growth in those, they're trying to do a more 'grounded' version in the show. So really Lucifer is not wrong when he makes all the cases of the week All About Him. They are all about him. Doesn't stop them from being dull at times, though.

I also agree that the show needs more moments like the end of the episode where Lucifer kills Uriel. There needs to be more jeopardy in it and more chance for Tom Ellis to show off his acting range (which he does have). There are rumours going around that a guest character may cause something fatal to happen to someone Lucifer cares about, and since that list is rather small, I've a horrid feeling it may turn out to be Dr Linda. I really hope not, but it's possible that given what happens when she speaks to Lucifer at the end of this episode, they may feel the character is now redundant.

I do hope not. She's my favourite.

I also applaud the way the show has filled out the secondary characters, particularly Maze, this season and given them more to do, though I think more work needs to be done with Amenadiel. He's pretty much drifting through life at the moment. I hope Maze will get more and more to do. The character is the most important female character in the comics, and Lesley-Ann Brandt is definitely up to doing a lot more with her.

Finally, yes, I agree that Tricia Helfer is a good enough actress it make 'Mum's' motives very ambiguous, but you're probably right that sticking it to 'Dad' is her ultimate goal, very much like Lilith in the comics.

[yourlibrarian]

I really hope not, but it's possible that given what happens when she speaks to Lucifer at the end of this episode, they may feel the character is now redundant.

I like her as well and would love to see her be more than just a sounding board, though this is unlikely since in the end there's only so much time in an episode. I suspect you're right, though I don't think it's because her role as therapist isn't needed anymore. I'm guessing part of this is financial if they're going to keep Helfer on as a regular.

It could also be a cliche way to keep Chloe and Lucifer apart (see, I revealed myself to another mortal and look what happened!) or if done right, it could be a way to bring them closer together. Without Linda as the therapist, he may open himself up to Chloe the way she was trying to get him to do 2 episodes ago. And I do think that's necessary if they're going to move that relationship forward.

I agree with you about Amenadiel -- what they need is for Lucifer to mentor him through his mortality. That gives him a clearer path and allows for more bonding. I don't think that it's where they're planning to go with him though, but rather to capitalize on his resentment to make him bond more closely with Mom.

Lastly, Lucifer had a big ratings drop from S1 though this has been true of a lot of returning shows so I don't know that it's in particular jeopardy. But if it keeps the writers from drawing out storylines I think that will be for the better.

[shapinglight]

Lastly, Lucifer had a big ratings drop from S1 though this has been true of a lot of returning shows so I don't know that it's in particular jeopardy.

Really? Oh dear, I actually thought it was doing better. Certainly from a glance at the ratings figures (which I admittedly don't understand that well), I thought viewing figures for the latest episodes had gone up recently. Maybe all the comic book nerds who thought they were getting something like the comic book have given up in disgust?

Sadly, I don't think they're going for more Lucifer/Amenadiel brotherly bonding either, though since you haven't watched episode 10 yet, I won't say any more on the subject.

I will be really sad if Dr Linda goes, though unfortunately, as you say, it could work well on a dramatic level. Would certainly increase even further Maze's antagonism to 'Mum' if it turns out 'Mum' is ultimately responsible.

As for Lucifer and Chloe, whether they advance that relationship or not will probably depend on whether the show is to get a third season. If it is, they'll probably spin it out longer. If not, then we'll see.

I do hope the show won't end with Lucifer turning human. I really shall feel like I'm watching AtS redux then. ;)

[yourlibrarian]

No you're probably right -- the article I'm remembering was talking about the first three or so episodes of the season in a discussion about how ratings were down across the board.

Mike and I saw this episode yesterday night. I also liked the Klingon bit and thought the ending was interesting in that we don't know which of the couple actually committed the murder. Personally I thought it was rather interesting that the entire episode, A and B plots alike, focused on couples sticking together or coming apart, beginning or stalling.

If you're right about Dr. Linda another possible reason for her to be killed is because she figures out too much about Mom. Maze has an agenda but Linda is insightful. And yes, it would give Maze a good reason for vengeance.

Yes, I think that thematically it would be a terrible choice to make him human. I doubt they would just in case they want to create another project in a different medium.

[shapinglight]

Personally I thought it was rather interesting that the entire episode, A and B plots alike, focused on couples sticking together or coming apart, beginning or stalling.

Yes, they did manage to tie the procedural part of the episode and the character development parts together quite well in this one, didn't they? And unlike some, it wasn't too clumsy either.

Yes, I think that thematically it would be a terrible choice to make him human. I doubt they would just in case they want to create another project in a different medium.

I'm actually with the irritated comic book nerds to a degree here. I would actually like to see Lucifer and the other supernatural characters use their powers a little more. And if that means cutting back on the procedural element, that's just fine by me. ;)