(no subject)

[shapinglight]

Brian Lynch posted covers to upcoming Angel books, with a teaser cover for the ongoing Spike series, at his blog. Very tiny casting spoilers, I suppose, though nothing you couldn't guess at if you've read Spike: Asylum.



The books look fun. I'm sort of looking forward to this Angel and Spike visit the SDCC story, even though it takes the fourth wall breakage of Spike: Shadow Puppets that bit further. However, such things aren't unusual in comics (can remember various Marvel 'novelty' issues where characters would start fights in the Marvel writers' 'bullpen,' etc etc).

Apparently, the Spike ongoing series will not debut until 2010, and looking at that last image, I found myself thinking, who does IDW think will buy it? I can't talk for the larger comics buying public, of course, (though in my experience, an enormous number of them wouldn't be seen dead buying a film/TV tie-in), and maybe there are thousands of Spike fans out there, who enjoyed Lynch's take on the character and want more of it. However, since I only know about the online part of the Buffyverse comics-buying fandom (very far from the whole fandom even in online terms), I'm left wondering.

The more vociferous comics-reading section of the fandom, as seen regurgitating rubbish with depressing frequency on Buffyforums, aren't going to buy it. They may pretend to have, but in reality, if they read it, they will probably only read a download, because basically they loathe Spike and want to believe everyone else does and want the comic to fail. And, where the online Spike fans are concerned, an awful lot of them don't read the comics at all, or if they did, disliked some of the things Lynch did with Spike so much (all the uncharacteristic running away for the sake of humour, plus the Spider and the Hugh Hefner mansion set-up in A: AtF) that they may not buy it either. Then there're all the canon snobs on Whedonesque, who aren't interested in the comics unless they're 'canon', which, thankfully, nothing at IDW post-A: AtF has any pretence to be. So they're not going to read it either (plus, plenty of Spike-haters on Whedonesque too).

I enjoyed Lynch's solo Spike stories enough to keep on reading for the moment. It'll depend what he does with the character as to how long I continue, but like I said, apart from me, who is going to be reading?

I'd put up a poll but have to rush off to work in a minute and don't have time.

One thing - if the reason you're not going to buy the comic is because you really, really loathe Spike, don't feel you need to come and tell me so.

Comments

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

who does IDW think will buy it?

Faith fans, perhaps? Or come to think of it, IDW probably don't have the rights, so I'm guessing that's someone else?

[deird1]

The name's Beck. She's rather fun.

[deird1]

If the comic is anything like Asylum or Shadow Puppets, I'd consider buying it.

Otherwise, I probably won't bother.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

So I just found out. Ooops. So I suppose the target audience is first and foremost Lynch fans, then.

[shapinglight]

It did look a teeny bit like Faith, but that's one of Lynch's original characters, Beck from Spike: Asylum. He says he thinks of her as Spike's adopted little sister.

[shapinglight]

So I suppose the target audience is first and foremost Lynch fans, then.

Well, I suppose IDW are hoping that the fans who enjoyed the previous Spike solo series will want to read this one.

As I said, I do. I'm okay with most of what he did with the character in the solo series. It was in A: AtF where I disliked things, where Spike's character was rather different (some might say regressed) to contrast him with Angel, which to be fair to Lynch happened in season 5 of AtS too.

Mind you, the fact that this book doesn't have even the pretence of being canon is a big plus in my book. It means I can take it or leave it, and I'm reasonably sure, judging by past experience that I'll enjoy it.

[shapinglight]

That's what I think too. It'll also depend a lot on the cast of OCs. Beck and the Asylum characters I'd welcome. Spider and co, not at all.

[deird1]

...which is why I own Asylum and SP, and haven't even touched AtF.

*wishes we could see more of Tok*

[shapinglight]

*wishes we could see more of Tok*

I think you'll get your wish. Lynch strikes me as a Spike/Tok 'shipper.

[cafedemonde.livejournal.com]

Me likey the Spikey!

[ubi4soft.livejournal.com]

I'm new (since last year) and kinda frustrated Spike fan because not all the comics are available on internet. I could buy only Spike:Atf and Shadow Puppets (deliverable to my country). I don't care if it will be considered canon (Joss made Spike pretty miserable), if IDW will publish it I will buy it

[sarian71]

*raises hand* I'm fully planning on buying the comics. I don't care if it's canon or not (to that debate I say 'Yawn') as long as Spike gets the attention he deserves. Like you, I mostly have no objections against Lynch's take on Spike, so yes, I'm interested in seeing what he's got up his sleeves this time.

[ladypeyton.livejournal.com]

Spike's series routinely outsell Angel's series so I'm not worried.

[shapinglight]

Me too. Not so keen on Spider, though. I hope she won't be back.

[shapinglight]

I don't care if it will be considered canon

I'm actually glad it isn't. Nothing worse than being told you have to consider something's canon when you really dislike it (talking about the Buffy comic here).

[shapinglight]

I don't care if it's canon or not (to that debate I say 'Yawn') as long as Spike gets the attention he deserves

I feel the same, though I hope Lynch buries Spider. Never want to see that character again.

[shapinglight]

Does it? If you don't mind my asking, what are you basing that claim on? I haven't kept up with sale figures.

[ladypeyton.livejournal.com]

I can't show you a website on the net that makes that claim, but I do loosely follow comic sales (for more than just the BTVS comics) and I know I've read it in more than one place.

For all that many people claim they hate Spike ratings jumped from 3.8/5 (s04e22) to 4.4/7 (s05e01) when he became attached to a show.

[shapinglight]

That's good to know. Thanks.

[candleanfeather.livejournal.com]

The covers are beautiful (though Angel's face isn't very well done in the first one).
The third one probably is probably indicative of the theme that'll be explored in the story : Spike's identity or how does he defines himself in regard to Angel. I'm very ambivalent about this idea, it could be interesting but at the same time it feels (to me anyway) like it's something that doesn't stem up naturally from Spike's story.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Be careful -- Brian will bring Spider back just to spite us.

I'll probably wait on your reports about the comics. I also enjoyed the solo efforts, so it's not impossible that I'd like them...

[angearia.livejournal.com]

That figure sounds way off. In the comic sales ratings, Buffy is always in the top 20, After the Fall was always in the 40s/50s and Spike After the Fall was lower than that.

[next_to_normal]

I'm not going to buy the comic because I really, really loathe Spike. *g*

The covers look cool. Of Lynch's solo Spike stuff, I've only read Asylum - I meant to get Shadow Puppets, but then season 8 sucked all the joy out of comics for me. But I did enjoy Asylum, so I really should read SP, and then possibly the new one.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

It's funny, but I'm not even sure what Lynch believes about Spike's feelings towards Buffy currently (and Spike being a character largely defined by love makes this a bit confusing for me). Is Spike in the getting over her phase? Because I don't think it'd quite work like that for him. I'm also wondering if he's going to go for a romance in the Spike series and how well that will go down.

However, such things aren't unusual in comics (can remember various Marvel 'novelty' issues where characters would start fights in the Marvel writers' 'bullpen,' etc etc).

Lynch's tendency to break the wall is a small part of what bothers me about his writing the stories. He tends to go a bit too far for a joke, sacrificing drama for humor. The one example coming to mind that bothered me from After the Fall was the Senior Partners talking in, essentially, Lynch's voice. And again, the Spike taking the elevator down to Fred/Illyria in First Night.

That being said, his stories are very entertaining and I loved Spike: After the Fall and really enjoyed Asylum, so I'll probably be buying. I just wish that Lynch was better at masking his voice a bit more and that he wouldn't negatively undercut dramatic moments with humor sometimes (Become What You Are had a nice balance though). The key timing seems to be to use humor to undercut the drama when it's getting a bit too high brow and serious, to self-mock. It doesn't always work for Lynch, I think.


I also loathe Spike. No really. I do! ...really.

[shapinglight]

Brian will bring Spider back just to spite us.

While it wouldn't altogether surprise me, I do hope not. Hi, Maggie. Nice to see you. And it'll be a while before I make any reports on the Spike comic, as it's not due out until next year.

[shapinglight]

The covers are beautiful (though Angel's face isn't very well done in the first one).

The first one is the weakest altogether, I think, but Mooney and Runge do good covers on the whole. The third cover isn't anything to do with the Spike book, but instead part of a comic two-parter Brian Lynch is writing about Spike and Angel visiting the San Diego Comics Convention where supposedly a blockbuster is to be premiered that's been made about Angel's adventures in Hell, in which Angel has been transformed into Nic Cage and Spike is a busty blonde. That sort of film.

It'll probably be very funny with lots of 4th wall breakage, and at some point people's identities will get confused and Spike will think he's Angel, hence the split face on the cover.

[shapinglight]

I'm not going to buy the comic because I really, really loathe Spike. *g*

You came all the way here to tell me that?

Shadow Puppets is good fun. I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I think the new series will be fun too, but I do hope that Lynch won't make the mistake of making the supporting cast all OCs. The AtS cast characters have been split up so much already, and it was always an ensemble show.

[shapinglight]

I think Lynch thinks that Buffy never loved Spike. He's actually said so. He's never said what Spike thinks about Buffy now but he's been willing enough to show Spike with other people, though it's debatable if you could say he's moved on. I sometimes wonder if Lynch has talked about it with Joss, but it's doubtful.

I'm pretty sure there'll be romance of some sort in the comic, probably with Lynch's OC Tok Shinobu. I could cope with that, or with Illyria. It's only Spider I couldn't cope with because I loathed that Playboy Mansion scenario so much.

Re: Tok. I even have an idea in my head that Comics Spike and Comics Buffy might meet up one day and Spike would say, "My new girlfriend's Japanese," and Buffy would say, "So's mine." :)

The key timing seems to be to use humor to undercut the drama when it's getting a bit too high brow and serious, to self-mock. It doesn't always work for Lynch, I think.

I agree that it doesn't always work - the elevator scene you mention is one I particularly dislike - but I think it's Jossian in spirit.

I also loathe Spike. No really. I do! ...really.

People keep saying that - and after I told them not to as well.

[candleanfeather.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the info. The project has lots of potential for fun. Is curious now.

[next_to_normal]

I do hope that Lynch won't make the mistake of making the supporting cast all OCs.

I dunno... Asylum's supporting cast was all OCs, and that wasn't bad. And SP just has Spike and Lorne, right? So he can write a good cast of OCs, he just didn't for some reason in ATF. I would prefer to see more interaction with the AtS characters, though.

[treadingthedark.livejournal.com]

I will read it for sure. I liked Lynch's Spike, but even if I didn't I'm not sure I could resist all the pretty Spike pictures because I am just that shallow.

But you have a point about the sales. All the canon junkies won't be interested, a lot of Spike fans don't like comics period, I hope it does well but I don't know. A lot of Bangels seemed to be clamoring for Spike to get his own comic, so they would never have to see him again, and I guess they got their way.

[shapinglight]

I think the first part of the story comes out in October. Shall tell everyone what I think of it then, of course.

[shapinglight]

Asylum's supporting cast was all OCs, and that wasn't bad

Not quite. Lorne was in it too, though briefly. However, I think his contribution gave it the right balance between show characters and OCs. If the regular cast of the comic (and Lynch says it will be small) turns out to feature no other show characters at all, I shall be very disappointed.

So he can write a good cast of OCs, he just didn't for some reason in ATF.

I still don't really get what he thought he was doing with that dreadful Spider character. For thing's for sure, though, he'd forgotten, or failed to understand in the first place, that a lot of Spike fans are women.

[shapinglight]

but even if I didn't I'm not sure I could resist all the pretty Spike pictures because I am just that shallow.

It's true that Franco Urru does draw him very, very pretty.

A lot of Bangels seemed to be clamoring for Spike to get his own comic, so they would never have to see him again, and I guess they got their way.

It looks that way, yes, though I suppose the fact this comic isn't 'canon' rather takes the shine off it.