Fic thoughts

[shapinglight]

Probably not a good time to post this, but I've been mulling it over all day - endings are tricky, aren't they?



This isn't apropos of anything I've read recently, btw, unless it's something to do with the ridiculous amount of angst I inflicted on you all when I was unable to get the ending of my noel_of_spike story to my satisfaction. But endings are tricky, aren't they?

Back when I read a lot of sci-fi (very long ago now), one of my favourite authors was CJ Cherryh. Don't know if any of you are familiar with her? Anyway, despite the fact I did at that time love her books to distraction, I don't think I ever read one with a wholly satisfactory ending. And she's a published author, with 40 books or more under her belt. What chance do we poor, benighted fanfic writers have?

So tell me, have you ever read anything where the end was 100% (or let's say 99%) satisfying, and if so, what was it?

Once I've thought of something myself, I'll come back and ETA this post.

Comments

[whichclothes.livejournal.com]

You know, I really can't think of anything. I think it's partly because of I have mixed motives about endings--I want them to remain true to the spirit of the story and to reality, and not be all they-lived-happily-ever-afterish. On the other hand, I'm a total sucker for happy endings. So there you go--can't please me at all.

Also, I think one mark of a well-written piece is that the reader doesn't want it to end. So that no matter how neatly the author ties things up, it's not enough because I don't want to leave that world yet.

And personally, I almost always find the end the hardest part to write. I agonize endlessly over titles, too, but I think a bad ending can ruin an otherwise good story, so I really worry about those last few sentences.

[elisi]

So tell me, have you ever read anything where the end was 100% (or let's say 99%) satisfying, and if so, what was it?
Kim. (by Kipling. He's *excellent* at endings.) There're probably others, but that's the one that springs to mind.

Ficwise... Hm, tricky. See mostly I tend to read 'stuff-that-fits-into-canon' stories, so endings are sort of a moot point.

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

A lot of my writer friends complain about endings, and I am very hard to please, myself. I hate most all the endings I've written, with a few tiny exceptions.

I recently read "The Jane Austen Book Club" and found the ending very satisfying.

Connie Willis' "To Say Nothing of the Dog" was a wonderful ending. Big, happy sighs. Also Muriel Spark's "Loitering With Intent"

And as I look back on these "favorite endings" I find that these are all very strongly plotted stories, you know? The stories end where they do because the big old convoluted plot has been resolved.

That said, I always adored CJ Cherryh, sloppy endings or no.

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

I forgot to give Karen Joy Fowler credit for her book. My bad.

Also, if you can stomach completely flat characters in outdated social structures, Asimov always seals up his endings nice and tight. Quite fond of the way he ends "End of Eternity" for example.

[brutti-ma-buoni.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I think the endings which satisfy me least tend to be those 'proper' endings neatly tied up with a bow. I want a sense of continuity post-story, even if it's a one-off. (Errm, unless everyone's dead, but Apocalypse fic is very rarely exactly right.)

I'm guilty of short quippy endings a lot of the time. It makes for a definite end, but it's not usually very satisfying to me.

[shapinglight]

On the other hand, I'm a total sucker for happy endings.

I'm actually not that fussed about happy endings. In fact, I sort of prefer ambiguous ones, but it all depends on the context.

And I do know what you mean about no ending really being satisfying if you've enjoyed something enough because you just want it to go on. Maybe CJ Cherryh's endings are cleverly contrived to leave you wanting?

And I agree, the ending is always the hardest part to write. So much so that at times it seems next to impossible, for which see all that annoying whingeing I did.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

I am cheap and easy, and like stories that end with a rim shot (joke). This is most effective in movies, one of the greatest endings in history being "Nobody's perfect," from Some Like It Hot. They also tend to give the impression that the story will continue "off-screen", which is nice. I often resort to the cheap and easy when ending my fics. It's a failing. For long, epic, serious tales (which I am, alas, unlikely to ever write) I'm not sure it's the best approach, but it just might beat a meandering non-ending. *shrug* I worry about my ending and titles being derivative, but by the time I get there I am so thoroughly sick of the thing that I just want it to be over. Sometimes. Sometimes, I have the ending figured out from the first, though not often.

Anyway, your most recent ending didn't rankle a bit. *pets you soothingly*

[deird1]

I'm so bad at endings. I hardly ever manage to write one I really like.

[whichclothes.livejournal.com]

I'm actually not that fussed about happy endings. In fact, I sort of prefer ambiguous ones, but it all depends on the context.
I know what you mean. The purist in me prefers ambiguities, and I really think they make for better literature. It's the big old girl part that likes puppies and rainbows.

I don't so much whine about my endings as wrestle with my muse over them. She's great at beginnings, you know, but not so much with the ends!

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I'm having trouble thinking of original fiction examples, but you have me pondering about my own writing. (god, self-involved)

I seem to be "good" at cliffhanger endings in chapters which work well to propel the story forward into the next chapter. But as this is for my only truly long WIP, I don't have a true ending to offer.

In oneshots, I always seem to be building up to the ending so I think they often work out well. (Probably the only example I can offer that's short and sweet is Sharp Edges (http://angearia.livejournal.com/59629.html).)

But the ending for my long work freaks me out. Anxiety that it's not going to live up to all that's come before. And the ending is so important - it's what note the reader takes away from the story.

I think this would be a great question for the writer community discussions - "What makes a satisfying end to a story?"

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Oh, jeez. I don't know. It's easier to remember the ones without satisfying endings. I mean, I like Neil Gaiman books, but I think nearly all of his books have lackluster endings. (Then again, I just finished Good Omens, which is a Gaiman/Pratchett collaboration and rather liked the ending of that one... which was more or less "If you must imagine what came after this, just imagine an endless summer of sunny days and a boy playing with his dog..." or something to that effect. )

One ending that I was satisfied with (but a glance at Amazon.com made clear to me that many people weren't) was the ending to Stephen King's The Cell. The premise to that one was that some sort of universal cell phone signal had created a zombie apocalypse (not literal zombies but as good as) and the protagonist's son had been zombiefied. Through the course of the novel a character had reached the conclusion that the cell signal was "rebooting" and that perhaps, if a zombie listened to newer rebooted signal, the zombie would reboot and become normal --if infantile -- again. By the end of the novel the protagonist was so despairing and so exhausted and so desperate to have his son back that he pressed the phone to his zombie-son's ear and answered the phone... The End. We never knew for certain whether it did cure the son or whether it didn't. I gathered from Amazon that it was incredibly frustrating for some readers, but I rather liked it. Had King ended it with a happy reboot (doubtful) then those same people would be crying 'cliche!'. Had he ended it on the despairing note that the protagonist had absolutely nothing left to live for and was doomed to a zombie-child that he'd either have to kill or care for until some lapse in attention allowed the child the opportunity to kill him, then those readers would protest what a depressing, pointless book. Leaving it as a question, however, made it haunting.

It was sort of an NFA-type ending. And, like NFA, I kind of liked it. (But it's not to everyone's taste).

[shapinglight]

I don't so much whine about my endings as wrestle with my muse over them. She's great at beginnings, you know, but not so much with the ends!

Back when I was a teenager, I would began loads of rambly stories and just give up in the end because I couldn't think how to end them. These days, I try not to start anything unless I know how it's going to end. If I do, trouble always ensues. :(

[shapinglight]

I'm still struggling to think of anything -which possibly I should just put down to having a bloody awful memory. I think maybe the Victorians were better at endings than we are now, because some things were more clearcut back then.

Or possibly I'm just waffling?

[shapinglight]

I hate most all the endings I've written, with a few tiny exceptions.

Are any of the endings you like endings of your fanfic stories, or are they all of your OF? I like the end of Crazy Madcap Redemption.

And as I look back on these "favorite endings" I find that these are all very strongly plotted stories, you know? The stories end where they do because the big old convoluted plot has been resolved.

Could be that's why Dickens's endings are quite good, at least imo they are. Lots of plot in a Dickens novel, in fact possibly too much sometimes.

Have you read Fingersmith? I thought the end of that was rather good.

That said, I always adored CJ Cherryh, sloppy endings or no.

Always nice to meet another Cherryh fan. Which is your favourite (assuming you have one)? I'm very fond of The Paladin, whereas I'm not so keen on the Foreigner series, which just seems to go on and on. I don't like the hero.

[shapinglight]

I think the endings which satisfy me least tend to be those 'proper' endings neatly tied up with a bow.

Mostly, I would agree. I like a note of ambiguity. But it all depends on the context. Victorian novels often tie things up in a nice, neat bow, but it seems to work in those.

[shapinglight]

This is most effective in movies, one of the greatest endings in history being "Nobody's perfect," from Some Like It Hot.

Oh dear me, yes! I love that movie and the end is just wonderful. It is nice to imagine what happened next (though with that movie, I'm not sure I can).

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a cheap and easy ending. I'm pretty sure that if a writer can contive something which doesn't leave people thinking either, "Is that all?" or "That was totally lame," you're doing well.

[shapinglight]

Same here, if it helps. I think I managed it once, but even so, it was a very fanficc-y ending.

[elisi]

Hmm. I think a lot of it has to do with endings needing to fit the story. Sometimes stories get the 'wrong' kind of ending, if you know what I mean. As an example of getting it right, I'd say 'Friday' is pretty perfect.

(It's an odd sort of thing for me to be discussing, because generally I don't have a problem with endings. All sorts of other things cause me bother, but the endings don't. So I'm not sure what I can bring to the discussion...)

[shapinglight]

Sometimes stories get the 'wrong' kind of ending, if you know what I mean. As an example of getting it right, I'd say 'Friday' is pretty perfect.

I don't remember the ending of Friday in detail, unfortunately. I remember thinking that the plot was resolved very satisfactorily. At least, I think I do. :(

[shapinglight]

But the ending for my long work freaks me out. Anxiety that it's not going to live up to all that's come before. And the ending is so important - it's what note the reader takes away from the story.

I agree it's tricky. There's a fic of mine that took me two years to write. Some people were kind enough to read it from the beginning to the bitter end and I was very aware of the burden of trying to give them an end that would be both emotionally satisfying and yet true to the story.

I think this would be a great question for the writer community discussions - "What makes a satisfying end to a story?"

It would, though I suspect most people would come up with the same answer, ie. that the ending should be true to the story. Of course, consensus on what is true to a story would vary wildly from person to person. Some people think NFA is a cliffhanger.

[shapinglight]

It's certainly true that people's attitude to endings does vary. I've never read any Stephen King (not a horror story fan), but that ending sounds perfect to the spirit of the story as you describe it.

I'd certainly say NFA was a perfect ending, which is all the more astonishing when you consider that AtS was cancelled quite late in the day and as such the end was constructed out of 10p and a piece of string, as it were. However, some people think it's a cliffhanger and feel cheated because that army of Slayers, with Buffy at its head, didn't come sweeping in to save everyone.

[quinara]

Hamlet. Nuff said. (Though as a play that's probably cheating.) The endings of the Iliad, Odyssey and Aeneid all kick arse in different ways (lots of people diss the Odyssey's ending, but I love it). John le Carré's The Constant Gardener ends wonderfully IIRC, again with inevitable tragedy.

I'm rubbish at endings, though I wouldn't be surprised if that was because my favourite type of endings are tragic endings (as in sort of following the rules of tragedy rather than just sad), which don't mesh well with wanting Spike and Buffy to be relatively happy with each other. So I'm all about the anticlimax.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

both emotionally satisfying and yet true to the story.

Yes. This. This is the mantra in my head. Wonderful way to express it.

[quinara]

I'd certainly say NFA was a perfect ending, which is all the more astonishing when you consider that AtS was cancelled quite late in the day and as such the end was constructed out of 10p and a piece of string, as it were. However, some people think it's a cliffhanger and feel cheated because that army of Slayers, with Buffy at its head, didn't come sweeping in to save everyone.

I really wasn't happy with NFA, but not because it was a cliffhanger (or because Buffy wasn't there - though it chafed at the time that Angel 'had' to be in the finale of BtVS even though AtS could apparently get by with its own current cast). I just thought it was inevitable that Angel would win one way or another and wanted to know what that meant. I mean, I know Angel's all about the constant struggle, but that battle didn't feel symbolic of all his day-to-day fighting for 'redemption' to me; it felt like a particular response to the W&H arc, but without resolution.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I agree - endings are the hardest. I never start writing a fic until I know the ending, plot-wise, ot, at least, the last line. In fanfiction, my favorite type of ending is the one that re-magines something within the canon.

In sci-fi, my absolute favorite is Clifford Simak's "Desertion". Explorers on the planet Jupiter are first transformed into beings that can survive the harsh atmosphere, then sent out to gather data. None have come back. The main characters goes outside together with his dog and realizes that Jupiter is actially a true paradise. He and his dog agree that they shouldn't return.

... "They would change me back into a dog."
"And me back into a man."

When I read it for the first time, it was an illumination to me.