Mad Men season 3 ep 8

[shapinglight]

I haven't said anything about Mad Men in a while. Not sure why as I'm still enjoying it enormously. Far and away the best thing on telly at the moment.

Spoilers within for ep 8



vampirefever had linked to the Guardian's online Mad Men blog, which I was not aware of (terrible, I know, me being a Guardian reader), and I've just spent a happy twenty minutes flicking through the posts about the latest season (ep 3 is mysteriously missing). So many thanks to her.

I feel I don't really have a lot of interesting thoughts of my own to add, after reading this blog, which is chockful of useful facts about the period and mentions stuff I would never have got (for instance, I had no idea that the African American man with Betty's mother in her hallucinations while giving birth was Medgar Evers the murdered Civil Rights leader, and that it was his funeral that was being shown on TV in that episode. Yet another pointer that outside the insular, privileged world of the Mad Men, important battles are being fought that will change things forever. Not yet, though.)

Sorry, long digression there. Anyway, my own scattershot impressions:

I felt really sorry for Betty in this episode. We've had several reminders this season that she's far from stupid - is, in fact, well-educated, intelligent and far more cosmopolitan than Don, even if sometimes she's not very nice. She got to shine this time, and, as the blog says the contrast between Rome Betty - who was confident, sexy and very much at ease - and Long Island (?) Betty who is cold, stiff and prone to sudden acts of violence (the pigeon shooting, also the incident with the dining chair in season 2) is very striking. It was also nice to see her being kinder to poor little Sally, though poignant at the same time, as she unloads her disappointed romantic fantasies (Don didn't quite measure up after all) onto the kid.

Carla the maid reappeared, was thoroughly put-upon and never even got a thank you (though she did get $5 and maybe she would rather have that anyway, as a thank you from Betty's friend - whose name I forget - is probably not worth having).

Meanwhile, in Manhattan, Pete Campbell lost any Brownie points he might have gained from being found reading Ebony in his office and from giving Peggy some very sound advice in the previous episode, which she sadly ignored. In fact, Pete is thoroughly back in the 'what a little bastard' column. First, he rapes a girl (because yes, there was no violence involved, but I do think it was rape, though no one at the time would have) and then he blames it on his wife for leaving him all alone. What a total little s**t.

I suppose it was his turn to be a s**t this week. It was Don's turn last week to take out his frustrations on women - first on Peggy and then on Betty. In fact, there's no two ways about it, the men in this show are a bunch of utter bastards.

Interesting, though - rounded characters in a way so few characters are on TV, and with not an anachronistic attitude between them.

I would love to see them all get their comeuppance when the show ends for good, but I suppose if it's true to what we've had so far, that won't happen. Would be nice, though, if it did. Possibly, there is loads of Mad Men fanfic out there, where Betty reads Betty Friedan or Marilyn French and throws Don out of the house for good and Peggy ends up as boss of Sterling Cooper, who knows?

Another good thing about this episode - Joan! Yay! for Joan. I really missed her last week and hope she finds her way back to Sterling Cooper soon. The place just isn't the same without her.

Speaking of the Sterling Cooper office, I wonder what happened to the secretary who had that little 'accident' in the mini-tractor? Not seen the character since, but am wondering if Lane-Price secretly gave her a raise for saving him from Bombay.

Comments

[quinara]

Oh yes, I felt so sorry for Betty - that bit at the end, where she says how much she hates it where they are and all the people around her (her friend's name is Francine) was kind of heartbreaking, even as it was petulant.

Pete is a rapist piece of shit. Possibly the weirdest thing about that whole storyline, though (if not the most horrible), was him getting his comeuppance from the neighbour. Because the whole thing of the Man taking control of the women in his household and enforcing the boundaries around them was a perfectly drawn piece of paternalism, and yet I was still glad that it happened. Bit like when Don took his revenge on Roger (with the oysters, champagne and stairs) after he hit on Betty.

Double yay for Joan!

wondering if Lane-Price secretly gave her a raise for saving him from Bombay

I like this idea. *has a sudden urge to ruffle Lane Price's hair*

For the first time this episode I had a weird sense memory resurface. Not of the sixties (obviously), but the jacket of Betty's suit when she was talking to Sally was really reminiscent of some of the clothes my nan had, and watching her talk to a little me girl made me suddenly recall the pervasive smell of stale cigarette smoke and my grandparents' electric fire (though I know the Drapers don't have one of those). It probably helps that, on top of the jacket, my nan was prone to saying things like, "What are you going to do when you finish school? I suppose you're tall - tall girls model, don't they?"... :/

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Betty really is incredible in s3. I don't know if it's that her story has advanced or that January Jones has become a really excellent actor, but so many of her scenes cut like laser.

Meanwhile, in Manhattan, Pete Campbell lost any Brownie points he might have gained from being found reading Ebony in his office and from giving Peggy some very sound advice in the previous episode, which she sadly ignored. In fact, Pete is thoroughly back in the 'what a little bastard' column. First, he rapes a girl (because yes, there was no violence involved, but I do think it was rape) and then he blames it on his wife for leaving him all alone. What a total little s**t.

Told ya. It's Mad Men. But I really like the way it plays out - nasty enough to squick a modern audience (well, hopefully) and yet none of the characters see it as more than a slight transgression - it's improper rather than immoral, the neighbour is angry on his own behalf rather than the girl's. Pete's married, after all, and of course he has urges but he's supposed to control himself or at least not shit where he eats. *shudders* It's what the series does best: present social behaviour so subtly and so consistently that it forces the viewer to think about why it feels wrong - and if things have really changed that much...

I would love to see them all get their comeuppance when the show ends for good, but I suppose if it's true to what we've had so far, that won't happen.

Well, the guys behind it learned their trade on The Sopranos... IIRC, during the last season of Sopranos, David Chase responded to the question "Will the show end with everyone going to jail?" by in essence saying that if the viewers really wanted Tony killed or jailed, they wouldn't have kept watching; what they want is the moral satisfaction of seeing him go to jail so they can reassure themselves that they didn't really cheer for the bad guy and that goodness always triumphs in the end. And that's way too easy. I expect Mad Men won't be too different.

And Yay Joan! echoed.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

ssibly, there is loads of Mad Men fanfic out there
, where Betty reads Betty Friedan or Marilyn French and throws Don out of the house for good and Peggy ends up as boss of Sterling Cooper, who knows?

God, that would be awesome, I'd so love to read that.

Glad you're enjoying, I can't wait for the next season.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Well, the guys behind it learned their trade on The Sopranos... IIRC, during the last season of Sopranos, David Chase responded to the question "Will the show end with everyone going to jail?" by in essence saying that if the viewers really wanted Tony killed or jailed, they wouldn't have kept watching; what they want is the moral satisfaction of seeing him go to jail so they can reassure themselves that they didn't really cheer for the bad guy and that goodness always triumphs in the end. And that's way too easy. I expect Mad Men won't be too different.

Similar situation on big love imho, where I wouldn't mind Bill getting a visit from the girl from "The Audition". Though I'd love to see some comeuppance on both shows I think they're more subtle than that. On one hand it's only realistic that the bad people don't get punished, but they also involve themselve in a structure that doesn't make them happy either.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't mind Bill getting a visit from the girl from "The Audition"

I love this idea and I want to marry it have a committed but equal relationship with it. Someone needs to fic or vid this. Seriously. Kiri-kiri-kiri.

On one hand it's only realistic that the bad people don't get punished, but they also involve themselve in a structure that doesn't make them happy either.

Yup, and the ending needs to take that into account. The Shield managed a very satisfying ending for the bad-guy protagonists, too. As did The Wire. Well, some of them. :-)

[shapinglight]

that bit at the end, where she says how much she hates it where they are and all the people around her (her friend's name is Francine) was kind of heartbreaking, even as it was petulant.

I agree. You can almost see her being slowly smothered, because though in most respects she's a spoilt little rich girl, she's way more intelligent than her suburbanite friends and so dissatisfied with her petty little life - which, ironically, is the life that Don probably always dreamed of having, having grown up dirt-poor.

Pete is a rapist piece of shit.

Yep. And yet if you said it to his face, he would be outraged and deny it, and no one at the time would have agreed with you.

Possibly the weirdest thing about that whole storyline, though (if not the most horrible), was him getting his comeuppance from the neighbour. Because the whole thing of the Man taking control of the women in his household and enforcing the boundaries around them was a perfectly drawn piece of paternalism,

I agree, and yet the neighbour probably didn't for one minute think of what Pete did as rape either.

"What are you going to do when you finish school? I suppose you're tall - tall girls model, don't they?"... :/

Heh! Really? Lots of stuff in Mad Men sends shivers down my spine, because I remember it directly, though of course seen through the prism of a child's eye. It'll be weird when they get around to the Kennedy assassination. I can remember his death being announced on TV and running into the kitchen to tell my mum.

[quinara]

You can almost see her being slowly smothered, because though in most respects she's a spoilt little rich girl, she's way more intelligent than her suburbanite friends and so dissatisfied with her petty little life

*nods* Thinking about your reference to Mad Men fic, I think part of me wants the story where she and Carla leave the kids with Don and go on some wild femslashy road-trip across Europe. I don't know how you could write that (even getting past the complete unlikeliness of it) without falling prey to the hierarchical relationship between them, but it would be fun.

Lots of stuff in Mad Men sends shivers down my spine, because I remember it directly, though of course seen through the prism of a child's eye.

I can imagine. At this point I think my mum's only seen S1, but when we watched it she spent the whole time getting angry on behalf of the secretaries, because apparently she spent a lot of time, even in the 80s, hanging up coats and covering for men not at their desks.

[shapinglight]

I don't know if it's that her story has advanced or that January Jones has become a really excellent actor, but so many of her scenes cut like laser.

I guess it's a little of both, though I think January Jones was always pretty good. But Betty definitely grew as a character when she threw Don out of the house in season 2. Made him realise he couldn't take her for granted, and he has been a little better towards her this season, even if he still hasn't been exactly a model husband.

Told ya. It's Mad Men.

You did, and I should have remembered.

But I really like the way it plays out - nasty enough to squick a modern audience (well, hopefully) and yet none of the characters see it as more than a slight transgression

Yes, it was very well done, so as to not even hint at anachronistic attitudes. Even the girl probably doesn't feel she's been raped, any more than Joan apparently did after what happened in season 2 with Dr Kill Anything. She just knows it was horrible and upsetting.

it's improper rather than immoral, the neighbour is angry on his own behalf rather than the girl's.

Yes, so irritating that she won't stop crying.

It's what the series does best: present social behaviour so subtly and so consistently that it forces the viewer to think about why it feels wrong - and if things have really changed that much...

Agree, they're absolutely masterful at that, and really not expecting any overt 'retribution' for bad behaviour. I would be disappointed if they went that route. That said, I'm sure the way events unfold will give some satisfaction along those lines, along the lines of Roger Sterling's shabby treatment of his wife resulting in him being made to look like a complete idiot at his country club party. Etc, etc.

[shapinglight]

God, that would be awesome, I'd so love to read that.

I would too, and of course The Feminine Mystique was published in 1963. Maybe we'll see one of the background characters reading it, the way Medgar Evers' funeral took place as part of the backdrop.

I can't wait for the next season.

Me neither, though it'll be a long wait for me (next year), plus it's entirely possible the BBC won't fork out for series 4, given how tiny the viewing figures are.

[shapinglight]

Thinking about your reference to Mad Men fic, I think part of me wants the story where she and Carla leave the kids with Don and go on some wild femslashy road-trip across Europe. I don't know how you could write that (even getting past the complete unlikeliness of it) without falling prey to the hierarchical relationship between them, but it would be fun.

Oddly, there was a repeat of that rather dour program about the history of 60s feminism right after Mad Men (appropriate), and in that, there's a scene where David Frost (I think) confronts a group of feminists, only one of whom is black, while the rest were all white and middle class.

At this point I think my mum's only seen S1, but when we watched it she spent the whole time getting angry on behalf of the secretaries, because apparently she spent a lot of time, even in the 80s, hanging up coats and covering for men not at their desks.

One of my work colleagues, who is slightly older than me, won't watch the show because she doesn't want to be reminded of how bad things were for women in the work place back then.

[quinara]

David Frost (I think) confronts a group of feminists, only one of whom is black, while the rest were all white and middle class.

Well, that's always one of the criticisms of the feminist movement at that time, that it focused on the struggles and writings of white middle-class women, rather than everybody who was involved. (I think this review is of the same programme? It seems to think that particular issue wasn't covered very well - I don't know what you think?)

[shapinglight]

I think that's a pretty fair review, unfortunately. I was disappointed by how narrow the program's viewpoint was, confining itself solely to white, middle class Anglophone women. And I did think of the Grunwick strike and wonder why they never mentioned it.

Also, at one point, Germaine Greer says something along the lines of not getting on well with other women, because women are brought up culturally to regard each other as enemies in competition for men.

Have to say I think that a very ethnocentric view, yet she says it as if it were true for everyone.

That said, in her defence she's being interviewed in 1960 something.

[quinara]

That said, in her defence she's being interviewed in 1960 something.

I suppose the question is whether she's changed her views since then. Because I wouldn't be so sure - the main place I've heard Germaine Greer speak is on Grumpy Old Women and the odd opinion column, but she's never inspired me to find more of her stuff, because she never seems that up-to-date.

I've been trying to work out whether to watch the programme, because it sounds like it's mainly going to cover stuff I already kind of know about, at the detriment to a lot of things I don't. I'd like the BBC to tell me more about the Grunwick strike, for example. As far as South Asian women are concerned, IIRC Meera Syal did a really interesting documentary on self-harm about six months ago with a specific focus on young Asian women, but the other women-related programme I can remember watching somewhat recently on the Beeb was rubbish. They did a series about women who work (including a small feature on one of my supervisors/lecturers, who has four children but still does a ridiculously long teaching day, which was why I watched), that completely shied away from all the complex issues. (There was this male surgeon who was like 'yes, I work 12 hours a day, but I still have children - it's fine', and they took this as a conundrum, rather than exploring in any meaningful way what his 'having children' meant in terms of commitment to his time... Plus a bunch of other stuff.) They don't seem to be trying very hard.

[next_to_normal]

It probably helps that, on top of the jacket, my nan was prone to saying things like, "What are you going to do when you finish school? I suppose you're tall - tall girls model, don't they?"... :/

OMG my grandmother used to say that, too. I always thought she was delusional, because I'm nowhere close to being thin enough to be a model in this era. (I'm not even that tall anymore, either, but I was when I was 12.) It never occurred to me that she might say it because she thought that's all girls could do...

Of course, my grandmother is crazy and still tells me that I've grown every time I see her, even though I'm 26 and left puberty long ago.

[quinara]

OMG my grandmother used to say that, too. I always thought she was delusional, because I'm nowhere close to being thin enough to be a model in this era. (I'm not even that tall anymore, either, but I was when I was 12.) It never occurred to me that she might say it because she thought that's all girls could do...

Yeah, it was funny because I tall when I was 12 too, but I ended up positively short for a model (5'9-ish) and not thin enough either. I don't know if her rationale was that that was all girls could do (and bluestockings have been around for ages!), but it was a bizarre pronouncement to say the least.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

It was Don's turn last week to take out his frustrations on women - first on Peggy and then on Betty.

But Peggy will, eventually, get her due. So that's something.

I'm willing to bet you'll like where the season ends.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Strangely, my mother (who I guess would be Peggy's age) keeps insisting that it wasn't that bad... but I think she's referring to the flagrant infidelity, because she always tells stories of working in the bank and saying "Women do all the work, and men sit back and take all the credit"... so, yeah, in many respects she remember it as being just that bad.

[yourlibrarian]

though poignant at the same time, as she unloads her disappointed romantic fantasies (Don didn't quite measure up after all) onto the kid.

This actually made me burst out laughing, because it suddenly occurred to me that this was the story of my childhood. Hmm. I suppose there are mothers who don't do this with their daughters but how many happy marriages can there be?

First, he rapes a girl (because yes, there was no violence involved, but I do think it was rape, though no one at the time would have) and then he blames it on his wife for leaving him all alone. What a total little s**t.

Pretty much. And I quite liked that they showed him in this light, as it struck me that this shed a very different light on the constant philandering done by Don and Roger. What I wondered is if the remorse he seemed to have actually had anything to do with his feelings for his wife, or just the fact that he was called to account by the neighbor.

Interesting, though - rounded characters in a way so few characters are on TV, and with not an anachronistic attitude between them.

I agree with the rounded characters issue. I think though, that it's rather easy for them not to be anachronistic.

I think Joan is definitely the only character who really seems to come off well most of the time in the show.

am wondering if Lane-Price secretly gave her a raise for saving him from Bombay.

LOL! I'm sure he instead put it as a great kindness of his that she wouldn't be fired.

[shapinglight]

I quite like Germaine Greer. She can be very funny - sometimes unintentionally so - but have to admit the thing I find most interesting about her is that she knew Jimi Hendrix. Sorry. I know that must sound awful.

I think this series is probably only worth watching if you don't know much about the subject. It would probably have been better if it had declared its rather narrow purview upfront. I'll probably watch the other episodes, but I can see myself getting quite cross at them.

[shapinglight]

:) I already love it, so I think you're probably right.

I just hope Joan comes back soon.

[shapinglight]

Hmm. I suppose there are mothers who don't do this with their daughters but how many happy marriages can there be?

Not that many, I suppose. I think I was very lucky. My parents were genuinely happy together and neither of them ever said anything to me and my sister about love, sex and marriage. They just left us to make our own conclusions while naively assuming we would end up thinking the same way as they did.

What I wondered is if the remorse he seemed to have actually had anything to do with his feelings for his wife, or just the fact that he was called to account by the neighbor.

He possibly did feel some remorse towards his wife, though none at all towards the poor girl he raped. Mostly, though, I think he just felt sorry for himself.

I think though, that it's rather easy for them not to be anachronistic.

What I mean by this really is that modern day sensibilities only apply to the viewer. The characters don't have them at all.

I think Joan is definitely the only character who really seems to come off well most of the time in the show.

Yes, she really shone in the episode with the severed foot incident. That's the sort of woman you want around in a crisis.

[shapinglight]

Heh! No doubt at the time it didn't seem so because that was just the way things were.

[quinara]

the thing I find most interesting about her is that she knew Jimi Hendrix. Sorry. I know that must sound awful.

Hee! I didn't know that. That is pretty interesting. :)

[shapinglight]

I think she was actually his girlfriend for a bit. Still seems to be very fond of him to this day.