More telly stuff (because I have nothing else to write about)

[shapinglight]

Am I really the only person on LJ who is watching Friday Night Dinner? I think it's the funniest thing I've seen since Green Wing, so you're probably all going to say you hate it. :(

Slight spoilers behind cut for The Good Wife season 1 and SPN season 1 ep 2, and please don't spoiler me for anything later.



Watched one episode of each this morning, which was possibly not the wisest thing to do. Confess I only watched the ep of The Good Wife because I needed something to take my mind off the SPN one. Guess I should probably fess up and admit here that I'm finding the ghost-hunting/horror film trope aspect of SPN difficult to deal with already. I don't like horror films of any sort. An odd confession, I suppose, for someone who watches lots of TV fantasy, but there it is. I was a scaredy-cat as a child (really did watch Doctor Who from behind the sofa, until my mother banned me from watching it altogether because I was having nightmares), could only get through the first ten minutes of the original film of The Haunting and have never seen any of the famous horror film franchises.

I can cope just fine with blood-letting/violence in conventional dramas like Rome, or with the sort of campy horror you get in True Blood and BtVS/AtS, but the stuff that's really meant to scare you? Hate it. Maybe I'm just too good at putting myself in the position of the person who is being snuck up on and we all know will end up as monster kibble?

Anyway, I found parts of the SPN episode I watched this morning unpleasantly creepy. This was the wendigo, one, btw, which IMO completely wastes a guest appearance by Callum Keith Rennie. After I'd watched it, I looked at the summaries for upcoming episodes. Demons that rip your skin off, or leap out of mirrors and gouge out your eyeballs? I'm not sure I can cope. At least, I'll have to become an awful lot fonder of the short boy and the boy with the weird nose than I am at the moment in order to cope with the gruesome stuff.

Also, is it going to get really, really religious? I don't like overtly religious stuff in dramas at all. It makes me quite cross. The religious stuff is what drags Being Human down in season 2 IMO, and the show never recovered from it.

As for The Good Wife, it didn't make me feel a lot better in fact because the episode was actually a rather unpleasant one in which the Sainted!Alicia has to defend someone who everyone, including her, believes killed his wife. By the end, we still don't know whether he did or not, but he probably did and has got away with it. Maybe I wasn't in the mood for ambiguity this morning, I don't know. The only bit of the ep I liked was that Diane decided to stick to her principles and keep guns out of her house.

A question for US people on my flist who have seen this show: is it, IYO, coming from a particular political POV? I would say it's more conservative than liberal- liberal judges are either criminals or a bit useless - but then again, the Glenn Beckalike was an a**ehole and shown to be one, and Diane did give the gun back.

Comments

[kathyh]

Am I really the only person on LJ who is watching Friday Night Dinner?

No, you aren't. I think it's hysterical. I haven't seen Fridays episode yet but when I caught up with Episode 3 (the Curtains) on 4oD I really nearly spat my drink all over my monitor and laughed until the tears came!

[shapinglight]

Hurrah! If you ever make any icons for it...

You'll love Friday's ep. It's hilarious! If you're watching it on your computer, best not to drink at the same time, I think. :)

[snickfic]

From my lofty vantage point of one season and change, it looks like SPN does tone down the gore a fair bit, but it'll be a few episodes yet. I'm told that lots of people skip most of the MOW stuff in season one and go for the arc episodes, which so far have tended to be somewhat less gory and much more character-based. It still clearly thinks of itself as horror, though.

[shapinglight]

From my lofty vantage point of one season and change, it looks like SPN does tone down the gore a fair bit, but it'll be a few episodes yet.

Yeah, the summaries read as pretty bloodthirsty. Really, really not looking forward to the eye-gouging thing.

[vampirefever.livejournal.com]

I managed 4 episodes of season 1 of SPN before I gave up because a) I don't like being scared and b) It was total pants.

[shapinglight]

I'm wavering, must admit. The sfx don't even need to be good to scare me.

[tabitha666.livejournal.com]

I'm trying with Friday Night Dinner. But I can't really get into it. I really wanted to like it because of Simon Bird and Tamsin Greig. The Inbetweeners and Black Books are two of my all time faves which I will never not find funny. But Friday Night Dinner just falls flat for me.

[shapinglight]

:(

I've never seen either of those other two shows. I don't know if that makes a difference?

[ningloreth.livejournal.com]

SPN, like The X-Files, combines 'monster of the week' episodes with 'ongoing conspiracy' episodes, and I've always liked the monster stories best (in both cases). If I remember rightly, the first season of SPN was pretty much all monsters, and some of them were really scary (there's a scarecrow one at some point that's absolutely terrifying), so I never watched them after dark!

I think you may have to stop watching them.

As for the possible wife killer in The Good Wife -- keep watching!

[shapinglight]

I think you may have to stop watching them.

Considering how easily I get spooked you may be right. :( There are some X-Files eps I've never watched because I knew I wouldn't like them.

As for the possible wife killer in The Good Wife -- keep watching!

Ah, interesting.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

The Good Wife - is actually a "moderate" pov, neither liberal nor conservative, handles both equally. (Which is why I like it - doesn't slant one way or the other.) Far more realistic depiction of US politics.

There really aren't any clear cut bad guys in this series, all varying shades of grey. The Good Wife is a very ambiguous series.

Should be noted that all of the main characters are democrats, I don't believe any are republicans, and they are all liberal to moderate democrats. There are no conservative republicans in the lead cast as far as I can tell. Chicago tends to be Democrat run city, current mayor is a Democrat. But our definition of liberal is slightly different than elsewhere. The liberal judges are radical liberals. The main characters are moderate liberals.

Regarding SPN?

I didn't like it until S3 to be honest. Found it too gorey, too scarey, and too episodic in the first two seasons. It tones down considerably by the 3rd. I skipped 60% of S1 because it creeped me out.

Also, is it going to get really, really religious? I don't like overtly religious stuff in dramas at all.

Depends. It delves into North American Urban and Rural Mythology, specifically US - specifically American Judeo/Christian Mythology - complete with the end of days Angels vs. Demons war. With a God character who seems to be absent and uncaring. The brothers and distant father theme is carried into the Angel war. With Lucifer vs. Michael. I don't really see it as religious so much as a somewhat dark and creepy exploration of Christian Mythology (not unlike well Angel did with the PTB, or for that matter Jim Butcher does with the Dresden files, or BattleStar Galatica did.).

There are Angels. There is a fight with Lucifier. And we get a lot of snarky heaven references and God references. If anything it feels anti-religious to me. (shrugs)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that I did crack up during the episode where the characters fell into an alternative universe... that was this one (where they were the actors themselves) and they pronounced that there was no magic or god in this universe.

[shapinglight]

There really aren't any clear cut bad guys in this series, all varying shades of grey. The Good Wife is a very ambiguous series.

Should be noted that all of the main characters are democrats, I don't believe any are republicans, and they are all liberal to moderate democrats. There are no conservative republicans in the lead cast as far as I can tell. Chicago tends to be Democrat run city, current mayor is a Democrat. But our definition of liberal is slightly different than elsewhere. The liberal judges are radical liberals. The main characters are moderate liberals.

Ah, good to know. Thanks. It's also true that the US and UK views of liberalism are very different. What seems liberal in the US is moderate conservative over here. No wonder, then, I suppose, that the tenor of the story seems more conservative than liberal to me.

I haven't read the rest of your comment re: SPN, because I undestand it contains spoilers. I should have made it clear I didn't want them, or only vague generalities. I'll get back to it at a later date when I've watched more of the show.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Also, is it going to get really, really religious?

Yeah, it is. But it's not religion that you can take seriously. It's too OTT for that. It's some weird cross between Milton, Dante, and "Good Omens." (hint: a lot of the time the angels aren't good guys. They're sort of self-involved dicks). I can't say what shows up when though, as I've never watched SPN consistently. I've been very hit or miss, with most of the 'hit' being on re-runs on TNT so I have no idea what was introduced when.

[shapinglight]

Yeah, it is. But it's not religion that you can take seriously. It's too OTT for that. It's some weird cross between Milton, Dante, and "Good Omens."

That's not so bad. I can possibly cope with that.

[avidrosette.livejournal.com]

Very cool that you're giving SPN a try! I found s1 extremely scary, though by the final few eps of s1 it's much less so, and then after that, the show is not very scary at all. The first season is the weakest, in my opinion - and also in the publicly expressed opinions of the show's creators, who are refreshingly self-critical. The show takes a good 3/4 of a season to find its feet and to discover its own strengths, which are long-arc storytelling and character development, imo. Once the show hit its stride, I found it quite compelling and well done. I'd have to say it's one of my favorite shows of all time, both as id candy and as critical/analytical enjoyment. (And yes, despite my ridiculous love for the show, I totally get that your mileage may vary!)

If you do stick with it, I hope you'll be able to avoid spoilers (if you want to) because the plot twists and turns are wonderful. I would hate to have been spoiled for Buffy, for the same reasons. (Just to note, there are comments in this thread that are spoilery right through s5. Correction: through s6, now. A note to dwyld & others above the cut with a warning would be incredibly thoughtful.)

I'm sorry you find the characters' appearances so distractingly unappealing. I didn't think much of anything about how they looked when I started watching, but as I fell in love with the characters, I began to find the actors beautiful. And now of course I can't "unsee" their beauty (much like what happened to me with Spike and Jack & Daniel of SG-1). Not to try to change your perfectly legitimate perceptions, but just because I can't resist, the "short one" is 6'1"; he just looks short next to his 6'5" co-star.

Your critiques of women's roles in SPN seem right on. This is a show with only two main characters, and both of them are white men. All the supporting characters, whether male or female, white or POC, tend to be either victims or of ambiguous morality, and as someone (bogwitch?) commented in an earlier post, most of them get killed off. There's really no way to defend those choices, but as a lover of slash fic, where the protagonists are also usually exclusively male, I find I can still enjoy the show (though I certainly wouldn't want shows without female main chars to be the only thing on TV).

Anyway, I'm disappointed that you're not enjoying SPN, but very grateful that you've given it a try!

[shapinglight]

(Just to note, there are comments in this thread that are spoilery right through s5. Correction: through s6, now. A note to dwyld & others above the cut with a warning would be incredibly thoughtful.)

You're right. I should have said. I guess I thought saying I was only on ep 2 of season 1 was probably enough. Anyway, haven't really time to answer everyone properly until tomorrow but will come back then. Would you mind telling me which comments above I should avoid as I haven't read them yet?

[shapinglight]

If you do stick with it, I hope you'll be able to avoid spoilers (if you want to) because the plot twists and turns are wonderful. I would hate to have been spoiled for Buffy, for the same reasons. (Just to note, there are comments in this thread that are spoilery right through s5. Correction: through s6, now. A note to dwyld & others above the cut with a warning would be incredibly thoughtful.)

Thank you again for warning me of that. I can cope with very vague general spoilers but getting spoilered for plot specifics I don't like at all. BtVS was the only show I ever wanted to be spoilered for, and that was only after the AR. After that, I felt I needed a heads up if anything else awful was going to be done to Spike. But spoilers really can spoil things. I've been so (inadvertently) spoilered for Dollhouse season 2 that I feel there's hardly any point watching it.

I'm sorry you find the characters' appearances so distractingly unappealing

They're really not my types, I'm afraid. Too young, too conventionally good looking. A bit bland. For the most part, I go for men who have something a bit off-beat about their appearance, and the one with the weird nose's nose isn't weird in the right way to qualify.

I'll see how I get on with the two characters. Buddy movies and bromances aren't really my thing, even though I'm a slash fan, unless there's a good mixture of other stuff in there too. If that's all there is....I don't know.

Anyway, I'm disappointed that you're not enjoying SPN, but very grateful that you've given it a try!

I'll possibly enjoy it more if they dial down the horror aspect.

[ex_peasant441]

I found SPN heavy going until about half way into S1, when it picks up hugely and becomes a completely different show. The storytelling craft is probably the best I have ever seen - those guys really know how to produce a properly paced emotional arc and season continuity.

I always find horror just very, very silly, so the blood and guts don't worry me, but if they freak you then maybe skip 'Bloody Mary'.

I have just got to the middle of S4 and the religious stuff is only just beginning, so you have plenty of room for religious free stuff if it isn't your thing. I can't yet comment on just how religious the religious stuff will be.

I have to say I disagree that all the women end up either dead or victims. There are plenty that don't. Maybe they aren't as memorable for some reason. But they are of course all secondary characters due to the nature of the show.

[shapinglight]

It's possibly the nature of the show (the concentration on that one relationship) that will be my biggest problem (along with the horror stuff, which I hate). I don't know if this show is for me at all.

I am a slash fan, yes, but I'm not interested in bromances - whatever you want to call them - for their own sakes if there's nothing else in the mix.

I have to say I disagree that all the women end up either dead or victims

Or evil. That was the third option.

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

The religion thing hangs around SPN a bit, but they mostly move along with it. Though I was downright ticked when there was an episode where a bunch of pagan gods are having a convention or something and ONE ANGEL is enough to do them all in, because, apparently, stuff in the Christian pantheon kicks more butt.

Part of my evil atheist soul, however, is somewhat happy that dominant theology is being presented in a fiction format - I bet fundies somewhere are burning dvds over it.

[shapinglight]

I put my hand over my eyes to read your comment, as I'm told parts of it are spoilery.

I'm actually sure, from what I've seen so far, that the types of religious fundamentalists who think Harry Potter is evil will think the same about this show.

[spikereader.livejournal.com]

*raises hand*

We're watching and loving Friday Night Dinner - it's the only 'must watch' viewing for us at the moment.

[shapinglight]

Same here. Yay! :)

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

I'd say they use religion rather than push any POV.
It's more like bible fanfic.

[shapinglight]

Ah. I can probably cope with that.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I've been trying to watch SPN, too, but like you I'm not a fan of horror. All my best friends are in love with the genre so I've been dragged to more than my fair share of it and I just... no. Also, the women getting fridged or else being evil and slain thing is not for me.

Sigh. I'd like to get to the parts that I'd enjoy. Because I know a lot of people who enjoy the show, but I just can't make it there.

I think I'm like you in that I get scared easily and I'm also really prone to put myself in the victim's POV. Maybe some people enjoy being scared? I dunno. But I tend to experience stories through immersion/identification on the first go-through and horror isn't my thing. Like you, I can deal with violence and gore, but it's the victimization that I hate. It really is about making someone powerless, terrorizing them, and then killing them.

*sighs again*

[shapinglight]

All my best friends are in love with the genre so I've been dragged to more than my fair share of it and I just... no

Oh dear! I'm afraid I would have to dig my heels in and would probably end up friendless. I can't watch extreme horror, no matter what. My elder daughter is the same. The younger one is made of sterner stuff, though. She's even seen one of the Saw movies and said it was gross, but stupid and fake-looking.

I have watched a few more eps since I posted this. Two weren't frightening at all. One I fast-forwarded through all the horror stuff, and one was so bad it didn't scare me at all. So, still trying to get to a part I can enjoy but possibly for different reasons.

[calturner.livejournal.com]

I have all of Friday Night Dinner recorded, but haven't had a chance to watch it yet. I love Simon Bird in The Inbetweeners and Tamsin Greig in just about everything she's ever been in (I loved Episodes btw), so I'm hoping I'm going to enjoy it. :)

I'm a huge fan of The Good Wife, and S2 is even better than S1 imo. And as for SPN, I think the second half of S1 is much better than the first (the horror is definitely toned down), and I got slightly obsessed with it up to the end of S4, but haven't found it anywhere near as compelling from the middle of S5 onwards. In fact, I still haven't watched beyond the first couple of episodes of S6, but I will catch up with it eventually. It just isn't 'must see' TV for me anymore.

[shapinglight]

I have all of Friday Night Dinner recorded, but haven't had a chance to watch it yet.

I hope you like it, Cal. I adore it, and typing this reminds me it's on tonight. Squee!

I'm a huge fan of The Good Wife, and S2 is even better than S1 imo

That's good to know, because season 1 is really, really good. I'm still on the rubbish part of SPN. I hope I find something to enjoy in it soon.