Game of Thrones ep 7 (the clueless about the books POV)

[shapinglight]

Rather late to the party this week, as I've only just had the chance to watch the episode this evening. Spoilers behind cut.



Well, one of my predictions from last week was wrong. I was pretty sure King Robert would get murdered before the end of the season, but unless you count Lancel Lannister, his squire, constantly plying him with drink (and if that was a deliberate sneaky move, Lancel Lannister is a very good actor), he wasn't. Instead, he dies by accident, having been gored by a boar. Ahem!

I would say that the episode suffered from a serious lack of Tyrion, except that Nightwatch Sam was back (yay!) and filled Tyrion's place admirably. Well, he's not as witty, obviously, and is cute rather than sexy, but he's a similar character in that he bats above his weight, as it were. Elsewhere, Ned Stark continued to be honourable and dense (and will probably be dead before the end of the next episode), while Varys and Littlefinger were all underhand and scheme-y - that is, except when Littlefinger inexplicably revealed all his deepest darkest secrets to Roz the ubiquitous whore (that woman gets everywhere), though for some weird reason I feel anything Littlefinger had to say in that scene was only a cover to let the show get away with some sub-porn (and not that sub) hot lesbo action. They might as well have given the scene its own porn movie title (suggestions on a postcard please). As you can probably tell, I didn't like it. The show has at times edged over into gratuitousness when it comes to depictions of sex or violence, but this time it took a big flying leap over the edge and landed in soft porn land.

No. Really didn't like it.

That said, it didn't spoil the ep for me because there was way too much more interesting stuff going on, from Khal Drogo's testosterone fuelled (a lot of that in this ep) speech about how he was going to conquer Westeros for daring to try to hurt Dany (must have been quite an effort learning that speech in a made up language and making it sound convincing/threatening, so kudos to Jason Momoa), to the utterly wonderful Charles Dance as the scary and chilling Lannister Snr ("Go on. Say something clever.") to Cersei being both scary (must get it from her dad) and strong (I wish she wasn't going to be quite so evil - I don't know the particulars, but I've seen enough of what other people have said to know that she is - because at the moment I have quite a lot of sympathy with her). However, the best scenes for me were the Nightwatch ones, with what the captive wilding girl said about 'things' waking up beyong the Wall as a sort of commentary on them. I loved all those scenes, and really enjoy the friendship between Jon Snow and Sam. And that last moment with Ghost the direwolf and the severed hand? Actually pretty creepy.

Very, very exciting, though I may well skip that one scene when I watch it again. The episode won't lose anything important.

Comments

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

Oh, it was a hand I couldn't make it out.

Yeah, things did get a little much. I'm wondering how my parents took it.

[shapinglight]

Yeah, things did get a little much. I'm wondering how my parents took it.

Just be glad you didn't have to watch it with them. Definitely one for the lads, I think.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

Hell, I had to watch it with my son-in-law. I'm sure he was dying!

I actually find Roz rather annoying - she wasn't in the books. The scene between Renly and the Knight of Flowers (blanking on his name) was also not in the book, though Martin has said they were a couple. The reason for both is that information was needed and had to be given. Roz sex was definitely gratuitous - Renly's love is not.

I wish they were showing more of Robb Stark - not sure why they're ignoring him. And, yeah, the books have much more on Oshoa and why the wildlings are going south.

[shapinglight]

Hell, I had to watch it with my son-in-law. I'm sure he was dying!

:)

I think the wildlings going south stuff is being kept for a Big Reveal further down the line. And I agree about Roz. She is annoying, and apart from her first scene, which introduced Tyrion, her scenes don't seem to serve any purpose except titivation.

[laisserais]

have finally caught up! (peeking through my fingers sometimes) oh man, the scene with littlefinger was awful, but i thought it was moreso due to the overwhelming Club of Exposition that was hitting me in the head.

and BOY was I surprised when he betrayed Ned! the guy who's married to the woman he loves! SO SHOCKING. :/

i do like how dense ned is, and i like that it gives me a chance to love lena headey's character, even if she is evil.

also, i am surprised at how much i've come to really like danerys. she's kind of a badass and i hope to have many more scary revelations about her in the future.

[shapinglight]

(peeking through my fingers sometimes)

Yes, I have to do that quite a bit. It's rather violent at times.

the scene with littlefinger was awful, but i thought it was moreso due to the overwhelming Club of Exposition that was hitting me in the head.

I agree. It was a terrible scene from every POV. Boring and borderline offensive. I can't think what came over them. Half of me thinks that the hot chicks making out part was stuck in so we wouldn't notice how boring the exposition was, but since I found that boring too I was doubly bored. And from what other people are saying, the scene is not in the books and has replaced potentially much more interesting scenes.

and BOY was I surprised when he betrayed Ned! the guy who's married to the woman he loves! SO SHOCKING. :/

I know. You'd never see that coming, would you? ;)

and i like that it gives me a chance to love lena headey's character, even if she is evil

Yes, I'm glad they opted to try to make her a little more sympathetic than she apparently is in the books.

And I agree about Daenerys. She's very much growing as a character. I don't know if we were meant to see them that way - perhaps not - but in all her scenes with Khal Drogo, they came across to me as to me less as a married couple and more as a woman with a very large ferocious pet.

[laisserais]

have you seen this meme? genius! #stupid_ned ftw.

[shapinglight]

ROFL. Poor old Ned!

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

Hilarious! I just posted it on my facebook.

Sadly, in the book, Ned being honorable was sorta poignant. Here, I just wanna slap him upside the skull!

[shapinglight]

Everyone says that. I feel very sorry for his daughters. They're in a terrible situation now, and it's all his fault. He should have got them the hell out of Dodge before he did anything else.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah - at least before he confronted Cersei. Of course, it doesn't help that Sansa - as much of a romantic as Ned, actually went to Cersei and told her all her father's plans to get them away.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Well, one of my predictions from last week was wrong. I was pretty sure King Robert would get murdered before the end of the season, but unless you count Lancel Lannister, his squire, constantly plying him with drink (and if that was a deliberate sneaky move, Lancel Lannister is a very good actor), he wasn't.

I was discussing this with Shadowkat recently. I'm not sure that I really remember exactly how Robert died. I mean, gutted by boar, yes. That was it, but there was also substantial question about Lancel and that wine, leaving it the last I remembered one of those things you couldn't quite decide. In short, I'm not certain that no foul play was involved with the porcine goring.

My main beef with the episode was the superfluous "Littlefinger confesses all to Ros." The scene wasn't in the book. Hell, Ros isn't in the book, and I think that having Littlefinger explain himself at this stage of the game was unnecessary. Plus the scene went on too. damn. long. I really wish they hadn't left out two other scenes to make way for that rather pointless one.

* Sam had been deemed unworthy to take vows and Jon went to bat for Sam with Mormont and Aemon pointing out that Sam was good at certain things that Stewards do and it would be a shame to work Sam to death trying to turn him into something he isn't while overlooking what he is. That scene was why Mormont and Aemon decided that Jon had the potential to be a leader of men.

* Sansa tattled to Cersei about Ned's plan to have the girls shipped out of King's Landing which was part of what led to Cersei acting.

I'd rather either of those scenes than an overlong one where Littlefinger gives the villain speech because not only was it needlessly detailed, but it undercut the action at the end of the episode.

[willowgreen.livejournal.com]

* Sansa tattled to Cersei about Ned's plan to have the girls shipped out of King's Landing which was part of what led to Cersei acting.

I would really have liked to see that. It wasn't even clear in this episode whether the girls had left Kings' Landing yet. And I'm finding Sansa kind of an interesting character right now -- she's selfish and shortsighted, but probably no more so than most other girls her age, and it's fascinating, if somewhat painful, to see how that plays out in the bizarre situation she's been thrown into.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

So true. It's so easy to become frustrated with Sansa, but then you remember how very young and truly teenager-ish that she is. She doesn't have a bad heart but she has a ton of bad teen judgement and you simultaneously want to comfort and shake her.

[shapinglight]

In short, I'm not certain that no foul play was involved with the porcine goring.

Ah. So maybe Lancel just is a very good actor, or maybe he'd just had enough of being sneered at.

Plus the scene went on too. damn. long. I really wish they hadn't left out two other scenes to make way for that rather pointless one.

God, yes! I was beginning to think it would never end. So, so boring. Any idea what the TWoP crowd are saying about it?

I agree those other two scenes sound much more interesting, though I can see why they left out the first of them. I think it would have detracted from what was a very good scene between Jon and Sam. But it's a pity they left out that second one.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

I suspect the girl's scenes will be in this coming episode - one does lead to the other - and the fight scene with Syrio is one of my favorites. Lancel is a Lannister. He'll do what he is told to do by his more important family members.

I wish they had included the various scenes of Cersei trying to goad Robert into potentially fatal mistakes. I think it's easier then to see what happened with Lancel. The scene where Robert's armor is too tight was actually preceded by a scene where Cersei stands up at a huge feast and absolutely forbids Robert to fight in the melee. What better way to manipulate him into raging bull status.

Roz is such a plot device. I cringe when she comes on because I know exposition is about to begin.

[shapinglight]

I don't know. I think I prefer the softer line the show has taken with Cersei. I've gathered, from what people have hinted, that she's very evil in the books, and pretty much has no redeeming features. How she's been presented in the show works better for me. At least we know how she came to be as she is now, and why she does what she does. Her scene with Robert in the ep before last (which also wasn't in the book, I'm told) was very important in that.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

To be honest, her villainy is no more than anyone else's - it's her actual lack of....well, let's just say everyone wears blinders. Ned's blinders would be called honour. Sanasa's are castles and princes seen through a pink haze. Cersei's blinders would be power through intimidation and murder - and when her Joffrey gets the throne, she is behind everything he does no matter how insane and destructive. Up until now, we've only had glimpses of her blinders but make no mistake - while she is gutsy and strong, she is also a stone cold murderer.

I think the only person without blinders would probably be Tyrion.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

Actually Tyrion has his blinders too - come to think of it.

BTW - the Cersei story of losing her child was a complete lie to take in Catelin. In fact, she had an abortion when she realized the child she was carrying was Robert's. No way do the king and queen have a son and heir and then lose the child without everyone in the realm knowing about it! In fact, a queen's pregnancy would be a matter of state.

Y'know, it's not so much that I think they are playing her too nice, as I want the viewer to know these layers. It really makes her more complex.

[shapinglight]

Well, maybe it'll be revealed further down the line. When it will have the most impact.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

It's quite likely that we will find out about the Sansa scene post facto which is exactly how it happened in the books. There would have been no suspense at all in the final scene of the episode for people who haven't read the novel if we already knew that Sansa had given away in the game. In the novel the whole thin plays out the exact same way, because we're in Ned's POV and he doesn't know yet that Sansa betrayed his plans.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

It couldn't possibly have undercut the end any more than the LIttlefinger scene did because it removed any doubt as to whether the Goldcloaks would help because Littlefinger point-blank says he plays to screw Ned over. Ned was shocked that things happened that way in the book, so their having that scene really worked to the character's disadvantage making him look dumb to think that Littlefinger would back him up. At least Sansa's scene just makes her look naive it wouldn't have doubled up on making Ned look blind.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Sexposition scene was a total dive into the toilet and not helpful to littlefinger either, because his shadyness was fairly obvious before and because his plans are never set in stone like that. He's flexible that's what makes him good at this. This is the first added scene that I really loathe.

And the more of these superfluous sexscenes they do the more I wonder how they will deal with the important ones from the books.

In the books the whole whine bit is comparatively clear. Lancel fills Robert up on purpose and the whine might even have been laced with something. Also they goad him into being overly daring. Cersei tried that first time at the tourney, but Ned foiled it. So yeah, it was an accident, since outright murdering would be too dangerous for the Lannisters, but one they were working up to.

[cafedemonde.livejournal.com]

I thought the wine might be laced as well. Lancel has a look about him during that scene.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

It's not laced - but as Varys mentioned, it's Robert's favorite strongwine, and he drank skin after skin of it. In the book, Cersei pretty much explains how she engineered the death by making sure Lancel had only strongwine and kept Robert's cup full. Wild boars are one of the most ferocious animals on earth. I'd face a pack of coyotes before I'd face mama javelina and her offspring.

Now, Jon Arryn, who also had the information Eddard found, was poisoned with the tears of Lyss. Jon's squire also had a Lannister connection but he died in the tourney before he could talk.

I think by now Cersei is also killing off Robert's bastard, including the whore with the baby that Eddard did talk to. I'm pretty sure that happened as soon as Joffrey is on the throne. Surprise that wasn't shown.

That's the subtext missing from what's going on now, which is really too bad.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

Forgot to mention - Tywin Lannister is gutting a stag (sigil of House Barratheon) just before we find out Robert was gutted. Nice visual.

[shapinglight]

This is the first added scene that I really loathe.

Of course, I didn't know until today that it was a scene that wasn't in the books. I agree it was loathesome - boring and pointlessly titillating. I wonder what the show writers have had to say about it? Petzi has linked to them talking about why they made certain decisions re their changes from the book. I would like to know why they thought the audience needed a porn-break accompanied by some very dull exposition that didn't tell us anything we don't already know. Or was it supposed to be the other way around, because the porn was very dull too?

Such a pity because there were so many great scenes in the ep, and yet this dragged it down a little.

So yeah, it was an accident, since outright murdering would be too dangerous for the Lannisters, but one they were working up to.

Ah, I see. I wonder if the show might just skate over that from now on, since Lancel is such a minor character and, (I assume), Ned and anyone else interested in the whys and wherefores of Robert's death aren't long for this world.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

The books do skate over it if I remember correctly (which might not be the case because Lancel does appear again in the later books), but there are so many people thinking they should be king, that Robert is not big on anyones mind.

[shapinglight]

but there are so many people thinking they should be king, that Robert is not big on anyones mind.

Not all for the same reasons, though, I suppose? Unless everyone except Ned (and presumably Robert) already knew that Joffrey isn't Robert's
son?

[cafedemonde.livejournal.com]

I just got caught up on this via HBO-GO (which I'm loving) and I absolutely love this show!

It's got its hooks in me and aint letting go anytime soon. I'm worried for Ned Stark, how could he trust Littlefinger? He's supposed to be the smart one?

Hated to see Robert die. I liked his big crass ass! Can't wait until Sunday :-)

[shapinglight]

It's got its hooks in me and aint letting go anytime soon

Same her. It's like Lord of the Rings with the sex and violence kept in (though too much sex in this one episode).

I think you're the only person I've come across who has said they liked Robert. I sorta kinda liked him too, but I don't think he's been a very good king. Poor old Ned. He's really screwed.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

Yeah - Ned is screwed. So how much honor is too much? Ned was offered a few ways out - take Joffrey, support Renly, send for Stannis....but he couldn't chose any and keep his honor.

This isn't a world where the nice guys win.

[shapinglight]

This isn't a world where the nice guys win.

Yep, that's pretty obvious.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

No - Ned isn't smart, he's honorable.

Littlefinger is smart - but has absolutely no honor.

Yeah, I liked Robert - they did a good job casting.

[lyr]

I came over to find your recaps! I'm glad to see you're enjoying the show so much. I'm really fond of Jon, Tyrion, Sam, and Ned, too. I also like Dany a lot, but it took her time to grow on me. Her arc was slower to bloom, but you can see her starting to mature into her strength and fierceness these last couple of episodes.

I think we are meant to understand that Robert's death was accidentally-on-purpose, in the sense that boarhunting is dangerous even when sober, and Robert is precisely the sort of foolhardy, proud man who would never admit that he's too drunk to take on a boar singlehanded. What Lancel did in encouraging him to drink heavily (and who knows but that there wasn't something in that wine) I think was surely a clever move calculated by someone who knew Robert well enough to know what would happen - Cersei. The timing is too convenient to her needs for me to think that it can have been entirely accidental.

[shapinglight]

It sounds about right, and in fact there's confirmation of that in the latest episode. Lancel was a very good actor after all.

I'm enjoying the show enormously. The latest episode was the best yet, I think.

[lyr]

Certainly Varys heavily implies it; though I tend to take him with grain of salt, that's one time I believe him.

By lastest episode, do you mean this last one you recapped, or the 9th? I'm not sure when you get them over there, but I saw the 9th yesterday, and it was made of awesome.

[shapinglight]

You saw the 9th? How? I thought ep 8 had only just been shown in the US.

Is it a similar deal to ep 7 being available online at the same time as ep 6 was shown on TV?

[lyr]

Sorry, I flipped my numbers there. I meant to ask if you'd seen the 9th, but I just saw the *8th* (though the preview for 9 looks exciting, and I expect much nailbiting). I didn't think y'all get them earlier than we do, but I wasn't sure.

[shapinglight]

The episodes are actually shown a day later here on a cable channel I don't get. I'm d/l'ing them, or I wouldn't get to see them at all. :(