Game of Thrones ep 10 (the clueless about the books POV)

[shapinglight]

:Thud:

I think this show just killed me.

Spoilers within



I honestly don't know where to start. That was just so, so good. I loved (almost) every single moment of it. The two bits I didn't love were the poor minstrel getting his tongue cut out (it wasn't as graphic as I expected, but I hid my eyes just in case) and the re-appearance of Roz the exposition whore, who, predictably, ended up listening to yet more expostion while being inexplicably naked. However, at least it didn't go on for too long this time, and Master Pycelle's ramblings in front of her were a lot more believable than Baelish's in the Scene That Shall Not Be Named.

Those things apart, every single scene was wonderful. The Sansa/Joffrey scene was utterly heartbreaking. Poor, poor Sansa! But despite her terrible situation, she yet again showed that there's more to her than appearances suggest. I thought, when she first looked at the long drop below, she was thinking of throwing herself down, but no, she was thinking of pushing Joffrey. And I don't think there's a single one of us who wouldn't have applauded if she had. I'm looking forward to seeing how she develops, because there's obviously a core of steel in that girl.

Cersei didn't have a lot to do in the episode, but I did love her one scene with Cousin Lancel. Seems Cersei will only countenance sex with close relatives. I hope she's not going to turn her eye on Joffrey next.

I teared up at the scene of Catelyn breaking down away from the eyes of the soldiers. I really didn't expect to be so moved by this show, but it's that well written and that well acted that I couldn't help myself. I also found myself thoroughly loathing Jaime Lannister. He really didn't cover himself in glory in this ep, though not many people would in the situation he's in. He's going to have to do an awful lot in later seasons to make me like him, and I may never do. But I think I remember flake_sake saying that the second book is mostly Lannister POV, so I'm not going to say it's impossible. Speaking of Lannisters, how good was that scene between Tywin and Tyrion? All Tywin had to do to get Tyrion on side (or sort of) was to say, "You're my son." What a vicious bastard. Loved Tyrion's assessment of him to Shae too (don't often laugh when people use the C word), but in spite of knowing what he knows about him, I suspect Tyrion still craves Tywin's approval, just as Jaime does, and that having his father actually pour him a cup of wine meant a hell of a lot to him, even though he was probably telling himself it didn't really mean anything.

Other great scenes - Baelish and Varys (Varys for the win!), Bran and the wilding girl, and Arya facing off against the bullies, and Sam and the others risking their own lives to bring Jon Snow back to the Wall. Can't believe we have to wait a whole year to find out what they discover beyond it.

The whole Dothraki storyline has been problematic from the beginning. Not enough attention was paid to it to do the Dany/Khal Drogo relationship justice, because - just as I found Dany's initial respect for her brother hard to accept - I found her love for Drogo, though obviously real to her, not very real to me. It was more like a strange fairytale she lived in and from which she has now woken. But I think the storyline has ultimately paid off, if only for that last eerie scene of Dany naked in the ashes of Khal Drogo's pyre, with the baby dragon sitting on her shoulder. :shiver: I think it's the only instance of female nudity in the series that I haven't found gratuitous. As with what lies beyond the Wall, I can't believe we have to wait a year to find out what Dany does next. Drogo aside, she really came into her own during the season. Now she doesn't need Drogo any more. She's a power in her own right.

I should do some sort of series overview, I suppose. Maybe I will, or maybe not. At the very least, I can say which were my favourite characters (not necessarily because they were nice people):

Tyrion, obviously, along with Bronn (who I missed in the finale - it should be a rule: No Episodes Without Bronn), and Shae, who I like more and more. Tywin Lannister, even though he's an utter bastard and makes Jaime and Cersei look like very nice people, because Charles Dance is that good. Sansa and Arya, Catelyn Stark, who annoys me sometimes but who I can't help liking, Dany and Jorah Mormont (never saw Iain Glen as such an action man when he was playing blind John Fielding in City of Vice), Sam Tarley and Jon Snow's other friends in the Nightwatch (who I like more than Jon Snow), and Lord Varys. I hope we get to see more of at least some of them in season 2.

Characters I would happily never see again: only one. Guess who it is. Go on, guess.

Comments

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I also found myself thoroughly loathing Jaime Lannister. He really didn't cover himself in glory in this ep, though not many people would in the situation he's in. He's going to have to do an awful lot in later seasons to make me like him, and I may never do.

Busy working on my recap, but I just wanted to say that I hope it was clear that Jaime is taunting Catelyn because he wants her to kill him quickly, rather than his rotting away in a dungeon forever. Because Ned's death basically means he's never going to be ransomed back or traded for anyone. (And Theon called for his head before Joffrey even executed Ned.)

In the books, that scene (a much longer and more compelling version of it) happened after Jaime had been a captive for a year in a dungeon so his impetus to die quickly made even more sense. I find Jaime's question one of the huge ones of the series though: If there are gods and they are just, why is the world so full of injustice?

[shapinglight]

To be honest, it wasn't really that clear. To me, it just came across that he was taunting Catelyn. Perhaps it would have been better to have left that scene until season 2 when he has been captive a long time, or for Catelyn to have told him that she knew what he was trying to do.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

That was just so, so good.

HELL yes! I mean, for starters, how gorgeous was that opening shot?

But despite her terrible situation, she yet again showed that there's more to her than appearances suggest.

Yup. And as a consequence, I could almost stand Joffrey too. He's a supremely annoying boy wonder psycho, but when we see him through Cersei's or Sansa's eyes, it becomes less about him. And I really can't wait to see what happens when his grandpa hits King's Landing.

I suspect Tyrion still craves Tywin's approval, just as Jaime does, and that having his father actually poor him a cup of wine meant a hell of a lot to him, even though he was probably telling himself it didn't really mean anything.

They've done a great job over the last couple of episodes of showing some cracks in Tyrion's smartass facade. He likes to portray himself as an unflappable cynic who knows exactly what makes people tick, but...

Completely agreed on the Dany storyline as well. That last shot of her in the soot cradling something, and then the dragon peeking up from behind her... GodDAMN. Her entire storyline has been about giving birth, and there's been some pretty icky connotations there, but that final scene is as much her own rebirth as the birth of those little... drakelets? Dragonettes? She just became something. I really want to know what.

They've spent all season pretending to tell the story of Robert and Ned and Khal, big Manly Men (in Tights) who look like traditional heroes and villains. Now they're swept aside and all the characters whose arcs have been set up in their shadows hit the ground running. Winter to the north, dragons to the south, and all the power structures they set up in their absence in ruins. Should be fun.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I suppose in Season 2 they're going to have to steal liberally from Jaime's stuff from book 3, because last night was literally the only scene Jaime had in Book 2 (there are a few things 'off screen' in Book 2 that have to happen, but that's the only time Jaime speaks in Book 2 and they've already used 90% of the scene). Still there's plenty to borrow for him in Book 3. As to loathing him at this point in the book, I did too. And I can't say that I'm as big a fan of his as some others. Clearly he's one of the lighter gray of the characters but all the characters in the series are flawed so some things just come down to preference. And while he's not without positive qualities (yeah, he actually has them) he isn't my first or second or even third favorite character in the books. Stuff happens and we begin to see more positive qualities.

It'll help his story when they introduce Brienne next season. You'll probably like Brienne.

And dragons! Dragons are cool!

I see they've started Dany freeing slaves early. She started winning me over as a character when she began freeing slaves. I always hated the raping, pillaging, slave taking-selling Dothraki way and thus never had affection for Khal Drogo. I was happy that nearly all the Dothraki deserted Dany except her own blood riders, her handmaids, the old, young, and helpless, and off course Jorah. Now she starts her own journey... and she has dragons!).

[shapinglight]

HELL yes! I mean, for starters, how gorgeous was that opening shot?

Erm..do you mean the sword with the blood dripping off it? It was certainly a very arresting image.

And I really can't wait to see what happens when his grandpa hits King's Landing.

Yes, I'm sure that'll happen at some point. In the meantime, I foresee oodles of conflict between Cersei and Tyrion over him, given that Tyrion apparently can't stand him (in their one scene together Tyrion slapped him repeatedly in the face).

It says even more about how good the actors are in this show that there was a moment - just a moment - in the scene between Sansa and Joffrey when I felt sorry for Joffrey. He turned all uncertain very briefly and you remembered that he's just a child.

They've done a great job over the last couple of episodes of showing some cracks in Tyrion's smartass facade. He likes to portray himself as an unflappable cynic who knows exactly what makes people tick, but...

Yes, he's still vulnerable underneath. I'm pretty sure he knew what Tywin was doing, but he fell for it anyway.

Her entire storyline has been about giving birth, and there's been some pretty icky connotations there, but that final scene is as much her own rebirth as the birth of those little... drakelets? Dragonettes? She just became something. I really want to know what.

Very much so. I had been inadvertently spoilered for what happens to Khal Drogo and the baby (difficult not to be spoilered when people will discuss the books in their comments), and it had surprised me, because I'd thought that even if Drogo died, Dany would spend the rest of the series trying to put their son on the throne. But GRRM appears to have thought of something so much better.

Should be fun.

Oh boy, yes! I can't wait - which is bad considering they haven't even started filming season 2 yet.

[shapinglight]

I suppose in Season 2 they're going to have to steal liberally from Jaime's stuff from book 3

Well, they're going to have to give Nilolau Costa-Waldau something to do, or why should he hang about? I think David Benioff (is it?) has already said they were going to bring forward some of his season 3 stuff to season 2. Same with Robb, who apparently is hardly in book 2 either? Jaime Lannister's character is obviously one we're supposed to find compelling, and I can see that happening (not that I see myself ever liking him that much), but the character hasn't had the material for that so far, except for the scene in the tent with Tywin.

It'll help his story when they introduce Brienne next season. You'll probably like Brienne.

I've seen lots of people mention this character and am intrigued.

I was happy that nearly all the Dothraki deserted Dany except her own blood riders, her handmaids, the old, young, and helpless, and off course Jorah. Now she starts her own journey... and she has dragons!).

Yes, wonderful! It's a measure of how perfunctory the Dothraki storyline has been compared to others that I wasn't aware Dany had her own followers among the Dothraki who belonged more to her than the central group. I just thought the Dothraki with the shorter hair, for instance, who made Viserys walk that time, was her personal servant.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

She does, though, she says that she knows he wants people to think he isn't afraid to die. And he tells her that it's the truth. So ... I dunno. I think that was the clear intent of the scene.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

hey've already used 90% of the scene

No, they actually used about 25% of it and they left out the great speech about vows. I'm kind of unhappy that they put it in this episode, actually.

I like TV Dany more than Book Dany, because I feel like the tv show is at liberty to show that she might be a little crazy too!

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Erm..do you mean the sword with the blood dripping off it?

That, and the unfocused shot of the head being lifted, and Arya and whatshisface... they had to establish beyond a shadow of a doubt that Ned is Dead McDead of Deadonia, and that shell-shocked slo-mo opening was just the way to do it. Gruesome, sure, but a brilliant cold open, re-establishing the "Holy shit did that just HAPPEN?" that they left us on in the previous episode.

(in their one scene together Tyrion slapped him repeatedly in the face)

And I really need to get an animated icon of that scene.

because I'd thought that even if Drogo died, Dany would spend the rest of the series trying to put their son on the throne.

Instead she's taken the power for herself. Like Ned convinced Robert to do, the Dothraki leave her to her fate, essentially thinking she's not even worth the trouble of killing. And she may just have risen above a LOT of petty squabbling. Who needs an army and fragile alliances when you have dragons?

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

...and I just realised that I wasted a perfectly good potential Pulp Fiction reference there. D'oh.

Whose chop is that?
It's Ned's.
Who's Ned?
Ned's dead, baby... Ned's dead.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

The issue with Robb in Book 2 is primarily that he isn't a POV character, so while we're told about the battles he's fighting and various (even pivotal) things that he does, we don't 'see' it because, to be truthful most of Robb's story is told through Catelyn's eyes, and Catelyn is off doing other things in Book 2, so as she's given primarily 2nd hand info on what Robb is doing the reader is only given 2nd hand info on what Robb is doing. There's actually plenty of material for Robb. He isn't idle in Book 2, it's just that what he does isn't dramatised in Book 2. I think that the TV show having chunks of it first hand will be quite helpful. Sometimes the close POV that Martin sticks to can be difficult if a character isn't POV.

This situation is also a factor in Jaime's book 2 plot. In Book 2 Jaime is also told primarily from Catelyn's point of view and, again, for the vast majority of the book, Catelyn is off doing something else (and it's there that you'll meet Brienne). So while Jaime languishes in a dungeon for the vast majority of the book, what he is given to do, we don't 'see' because it was only told to Catelyn 2nd hand.

Since the TV isn't as closely tied to POV, we should get more of both Robb and Jaime simply for that reason. They can dramatise their bits of Book 2. Plus, I don't think it would damage timeline at all to move up the beginning of his arc in Book 3 (which is when he does become a POV character).

Re: Dany as explained in the book but only hinted in the show, Khal isn't a hereditary position. The Khal is the 'strongest'. So when Khal Drogo was dying the khalasar was splintering. Only the Khal's blood riders (sort of his personal king's guard) was individually sworn to Drogo, and those stay with Dany. Dany's handmaids are also associated with Dany. And Jorah...well, clearly he's all about Dany now. The rest? The ones still with her are those the rest of the khalasar left, didn't want, or who chose Dany.

They hinted at it in bits on the show, but it probably only communicated to those who read the books and had some idea what's going on.

From this point forward, those who follow Dany follow [i]Dany[/i]. She's becoming her own woman/queen now, but her followers at this point are largely those with nowhere else to go.

Martin does a good job of teaching Dany 'lessons' on how to be queen (I believe the whole issue with the witch and Dany thinking the 'saved' her and the witch telling her 'saved from what? Your Khal destroyed my home, my people, my god, and I was raped, and you 'saved' me?' was the first of many lessons. Dany still has a lot to learn, but now it is really her journey, not her husband's (though it never really was. Even reading reviews for the show, it's surprising how many people began to assume that it was).

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

They really are going to have to come back to that scene, though. It's kind of necessary for what comes after, so I would think of what's left out as 'delayed' rather than 'expunged' at this point.

Heh. She does have some crazy, doesn't she? That scene had the added trepidation of "erm, guys... this sounds kinda off her rocker!"

I think Dany sort of walks that line of crazy hubris and the kind of uber sense of destiny necessary to drive her forward, because it takes a lot to decide that you're the one to lay seige to cities and aim to take an empire. You have to be a little crazy to choose to take that on.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Who needs an army and fragile alliances when you have dragons?

While the IDEA of them is awesome ... they are awfully small. They look like the size of chihuahuas, and if someone stepped on them, they'd probably get squashed at this stage, no?

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Only the Khal's blood riders (sort of his personal king's guard) was individually sworn to Drogo, and those stay with Dany.

That's not quite right. Dany has her own bodyguards, including Rakharo (whose hair is really short, so he's clearly not a seasoned warrior) and Jorah. And the significance of Jorah falling to his knee and calling her "blood of my blood" is that he now IS a bloodrider, so he's essentially swearing fealty to her in a wholly different and more compelling way than he did when she was the Targaryen princess.

Drogo's bloodriders blame Dany for Drogo's death and they take off with the Khalasar, where one of them will fight off the others and become Khal, I'd imagine. Or else they'll join up with another band or something like that.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I just didn't think they needed to make Jaime WORSE than he is in the first book. He's plenty bad enough in the books!

I love that the show allows Dany to be seen from "outside" not just from her own point of view where obviously none of her actions are seen as CRAZY in her own head, but when you see from outside, you can see that she's ... err, burning people alive. People who have wronged her to be sure, but there was more than a hint of Mad King in there.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I don't know how quickly dragons grow, but I figure dragons are a bit like nuclear weapons; as long as people know you HAVE them, you don't necessarily have to USE them. But then I'm completely unspoiled about everything in this 'verse so I may be making the entirely wrong assumptions here.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm not trying to spoil you. Just that they're not really a weapon right now, more like little winged newborns with attitude :P

[shapinglight]

Perhaps. I'm afraid I didn't get the sense that he was trying to goad her into killing him on the spot. I know he expects to die, and I believe him when he says he's not afraid to die, but his behaviour seemed more 'last splutterings of defiance amidst the general war weariness' rather than 'kill me right now.' Sorry.

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

Yes, stunning, powerful - just no words, I'm shell-shocked.
Brilliance from the first shot to the last: Dany reborn from fire, with the dragons - wow!

And even Roz the whore served some purpose - I may be confused but didn't Pucelle suppose to be blind? Or feeble? And here he shows he's none of those things, so he's a player too, the only one who hasn't shown his cards.

Joffrey and Sansa - spine-chilling and hearbreaking. That poor minstrel!
And Sansa - wow! She's got a great idea going, just needs to work on the execution. I wonder if Joffrey is too stupid to realize he can't be safe alone with her now, and presumably to put a son in her he gotta be alone. But won't put it past him to need guards for that too, like he needed Hound to strike her. *shudder *

And there seems to be a weird bond forming betweent Sansa and Hound for some time, wonder if it'll play a part. She got the worst lot of all, so far...
Arya at least is heading North to her family, but with this show, who knows.

So, we had a generational shift - old kings are dead, new young rulers are here, it's abuot Joffrey, Robb and Dany now, how cool is that?

Don't know what to expect from Dany now - I was scared of her ever since she was enraptured by Drogo's rants about raping, enslaving and killing people for her sake - heh, which girl wouldn't love to hear her bf wanting to rape other women? And her also enraptured by the death of her brother.

She also seems to be OK with burning other people as she can't feel being burnt herself. Yes, her brother deserved it but for me, the witch was right on the money. I was shocked by her execution, yep here's the mad Targarean at it again.
Yes girl, you think Stallion Who Mounts the World is fun for the World? Also, with you shocked by Dothraki raping and killing - what part of Drogo's speech didn't you get? They were just doing what they promised to you.

So no, I don't know what was reborn in that fire - she's naive and young and it could go either way, but she's most of all about power, like in her talks about dragons with that pleasure girl. Dragons can do what they want, be where they want, kill whom they want. She was empowered by Drogo, and I think that's what she loved about him, but now she's left with her own power.
Dany just saw what mercy could do - she showed mercy to that bunch of women and it got folks turning on her and Drogo and her baby killed, so what will she learn from it?
Fascinating.

Jon stays in Night Watch and rides out beyound the Wall, as he should, making his song of Ice. I wonder if he and Dany cross their paths, Ice and Fire, and be main heroes in the end.

But my favorite part there was Mormont admission that if they chopped heads off every deserter then who would man the Wall. And also that yes, folks are whoring around. Ha-ha-ha, such a relief that this institution is human after all, and it was just Ned who was so boneheaded in autimatically chopping a head of that poor guy. Mormont would have listened to him instead.
As they say in Russia, absurdity of laws is mitigated by non-adherence, and the Wall laws did seem absurd to me.
It was a mix of a prison and an army, and how it could exist as being both a worst punishemnt and an honour - just wasn't working for me, was against all human nature. So was nice to see those guys mitigating it. :D

Oh, and Tyrion got the Hand job at the worst possible time... Heh, at least I hope he'll slap Joffrey around some more, or maybe worse.
And I guess my question on who is more dear to Sersei - Joffrey or Jaimie, was answered. Even as I hoped till the last moment that she's just being too motherly to that young Lanister boy, maybe just bathing him and putting him to bed. But no. :D At least she keeps it in the family, and yes, I thought of her and Joffrey too. Or maybe she still cares about Jamie as a brotehr while being cynical about sex?

[shapinglight]

and that shell-shocked slo-mo opening was just the way to do it. Gruesome, sure, but a brilliant cold open, re-establishing the "Holy shit did that just HAPPEN?" that they left us on in the previous episode.

Oh definitely.

And I really need to get an animated icon of that scene.

I'm really surprised there isn't one already. I'm also in the market for a good Tyrion/Bronn icon. Thought I had found one, but on a second look it's a bit dark.

Who needs an army and fragile alliances when you have dragons?

Who indeed? I wonder how GRRM means that to go? I can't imagine anything good. Dany's a bit crazy, and what she did to the witch shows she has a ruthless streak a mile wide.

[shapinglight]

Heh! I wouldn't have got it. I have seen Pulp Fiction, but I never remember movie quotes, except the most famous and cliched ones.

[shapinglight]

Since the TV isn't as closely tied to POV, we should get more of both Robb and Jaime simply for that reason. They can dramatise their bits of Book 2. Plus, I don't think it would damage timeline at all to move up the beginning of his arc in Book 3 (which is when he does become a POV character).

That's good. Must say, I do wonder why GRRM chose that method of narration. Does he say? Is it First Person Limited or Third Person Limited? In writing fanfic, I alwayw write TPL (have tried other forms, can't do them). It does place quite heavy restrictions on you.

They hinted at it in bits on the show, but it probably only communicated to those who read the books and had some idea what's going on.

Yes, I think so. I had the impression that most of the people left behind with Dany were the slaves from the sheep people's village who Dany had claimed for her own, plus Dany's personal servants.

Even reading reviews for the show, it's surprising how many people began to assume that it was).

Really? Didn't the fact that Drogo had such minimal dialogue and didn't really appear to change at all give them any hints?

[shapinglight]

And the significance of Jorah falling to his knee and calling her "blood of my blood" is that he now IS a bloodrider, so he's essentially swearing fealty to her in a wholly different and more compelling way than he did when she was the Targaryen princess.

Damn, I wish they'd explained that better (unless they did in an early episode and I just forgot). I thought the significance of that moment was that Jorah was hailing her as a Targaryen - his queen. Nothing to do with the Dothraki.

[shapinglight]

People who have wronged her to be sure, but there was more than a hint of Mad King in there.

RL comparisons are invidious, but I found myself thinking she'll either become the Westeros equivalent of Jesus, or the Westeros equivalent of Hitler.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

He did explain exactly how she could kill him with the rock, which is why I figured he was trying to get her to do that. But if it didn't come through, then maybe that's not what was intended. And there's no need to apologize to me. I've already ranted in my own journal about how the show managed to make Jaime at this point even less likable than the books did, which is quite a feat!

Sorry, I did really love the episode, just terribly disappointed in what they've done with my favorite character!