Game of Thrones ep 10 (the clueless about the books POV)

[shapinglight]

:Thud:

I think this show just killed me.

Spoilers within



I honestly don't know where to start. That was just so, so good. I loved (almost) every single moment of it. The two bits I didn't love were the poor minstrel getting his tongue cut out (it wasn't as graphic as I expected, but I hid my eyes just in case) and the re-appearance of Roz the exposition whore, who, predictably, ended up listening to yet more expostion while being inexplicably naked. However, at least it didn't go on for too long this time, and Master Pycelle's ramblings in front of her were a lot more believable than Baelish's in the Scene That Shall Not Be Named.

Those things apart, every single scene was wonderful. The Sansa/Joffrey scene was utterly heartbreaking. Poor, poor Sansa! But despite her terrible situation, she yet again showed that there's more to her than appearances suggest. I thought, when she first looked at the long drop below, she was thinking of throwing herself down, but no, she was thinking of pushing Joffrey. And I don't think there's a single one of us who wouldn't have applauded if she had. I'm looking forward to seeing how she develops, because there's obviously a core of steel in that girl.

Cersei didn't have a lot to do in the episode, but I did love her one scene with Cousin Lancel. Seems Cersei will only countenance sex with close relatives. I hope she's not going to turn her eye on Joffrey next.

I teared up at the scene of Catelyn breaking down away from the eyes of the soldiers. I really didn't expect to be so moved by this show, but it's that well written and that well acted that I couldn't help myself. I also found myself thoroughly loathing Jaime Lannister. He really didn't cover himself in glory in this ep, though not many people would in the situation he's in. He's going to have to do an awful lot in later seasons to make me like him, and I may never do. But I think I remember flake_sake saying that the second book is mostly Lannister POV, so I'm not going to say it's impossible. Speaking of Lannisters, how good was that scene between Tywin and Tyrion? All Tywin had to do to get Tyrion on side (or sort of) was to say, "You're my son." What a vicious bastard. Loved Tyrion's assessment of him to Shae too (don't often laugh when people use the C word), but in spite of knowing what he knows about him, I suspect Tyrion still craves Tywin's approval, just as Jaime does, and that having his father actually pour him a cup of wine meant a hell of a lot to him, even though he was probably telling himself it didn't really mean anything.

Other great scenes - Baelish and Varys (Varys for the win!), Bran and the wilding girl, and Arya facing off against the bullies, and Sam and the others risking their own lives to bring Jon Snow back to the Wall. Can't believe we have to wait a whole year to find out what they discover beyond it.

The whole Dothraki storyline has been problematic from the beginning. Not enough attention was paid to it to do the Dany/Khal Drogo relationship justice, because - just as I found Dany's initial respect for her brother hard to accept - I found her love for Drogo, though obviously real to her, not very real to me. It was more like a strange fairytale she lived in and from which she has now woken. But I think the storyline has ultimately paid off, if only for that last eerie scene of Dany naked in the ashes of Khal Drogo's pyre, with the baby dragon sitting on her shoulder. :shiver: I think it's the only instance of female nudity in the series that I haven't found gratuitous. As with what lies beyond the Wall, I can't believe we have to wait a year to find out what Dany does next. Drogo aside, she really came into her own during the season. Now she doesn't need Drogo any more. She's a power in her own right.

I should do some sort of series overview, I suppose. Maybe I will, or maybe not. At the very least, I can say which were my favourite characters (not necessarily because they were nice people):

Tyrion, obviously, along with Bronn (who I missed in the finale - it should be a rule: No Episodes Without Bronn), and Shae, who I like more and more. Tywin Lannister, even though he's an utter bastard and makes Jaime and Cersei look like very nice people, because Charles Dance is that good. Sansa and Arya, Catelyn Stark, who annoys me sometimes but who I can't help liking, Dany and Jorah Mormont (never saw Iain Glen as such an action man when he was playing blind John Fielding in City of Vice), Sam Tarley and Jon Snow's other friends in the Nightwatch (who I like more than Jon Snow), and Lord Varys. I hope we get to see more of at least some of them in season 2.

Characters I would happily never see again: only one. Guess who it is. Go on, guess.

Comments

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I also found myself thoroughly loathing Jaime Lannister. He really didn't cover himself in glory in this ep, though not many people would in the situation he's in. He's going to have to do an awful lot in later seasons to make me like him, and I may never do.

Busy working on my recap, but I just wanted to say that I hope it was clear that Jaime is taunting Catelyn because he wants her to kill him quickly, rather than his rotting away in a dungeon forever. Because Ned's death basically means he's never going to be ransomed back or traded for anyone. (And Theon called for his head before Joffrey even executed Ned.)

In the books, that scene (a much longer and more compelling version of it) happened after Jaime had been a captive for a year in a dungeon so his impetus to die quickly made even more sense. I find Jaime's question one of the huge ones of the series though: If there are gods and they are just, why is the world so full of injustice?

[shapinglight]

To be honest, it wasn't really that clear. To me, it just came across that he was taunting Catelyn. Perhaps it would have been better to have left that scene until season 2 when he has been captive a long time, or for Catelyn to have told him that she knew what he was trying to do.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

She does, though, she says that she knows he wants people to think he isn't afraid to die. And he tells her that it's the truth. So ... I dunno. I think that was the clear intent of the scene.

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

find Jaime's question one of the huge ones of the series though: If there are gods and they are just, why is the world so full of injustice?
I think Catelyn gave the perfect answer - "because of men like you".
If you push little boys out of windows, or stick a knife through an eye of a guy you were just friendly before, you shouldn't blame it on the oversight of some abstract gods.

It's such a tired fallacy for me - you don't have to believe in god(s) to see that there is both good and evil in the world and that people are capable of both. And if you believe, then good and evil are god and devil both at work, with people having a free will to choose between them, so blaming your evil choice on someone else is still a hypocricy.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Well, in the scene in the book, it's easy for her to say "because of men like you" because she doesn't actually know anything about Jaime beyond what he did to her son. And the remainder of Jaime's words to her, which they cut out of the tv scene, actually address the question of how you exercise your free will when every choice available to you is an evil one.

[willowgreen.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to say that I hope it was clear that Jaime is taunting Catelyn because he wants her to kill him quickly, rather than his rotting away in a dungeon forever.

That was pretty much what I got out of it. I thought it was a really interesting scene, actually -- it seemed to me that there were three things going on in it: (1) Jaime trying to get Catelyn to kill him, (2) him enjoying taunting her because he's just that kind of an asshole, and (3) a hint of real compassion when he confessed to having tried to kill Bran. It seemed to me that the only remotely kind thing he could do for Catelyn was to tell her what really happened to her son, and he did that -- and if it spurred her on to kill him quickly, so much the better. I find Jaime a thoroughly loathesome and reprehensible character, but the actor playing him is really good.

Joffrey, on the other hand, seems like a total psychopath. I'm counting on Sansa to find some sneaky way to get to him. And I'm wondering how Cersei is going to handle the fact that Joffrey isn't going to be as easy to control as she presumably anticipated he would be.

[shapinglight]

It seemed to me that the only remotely kind thing he could do for Catelyn was to tell her what really happened to her son, and he did that -- and if it spurred her on to kill him quickly, so much the better

I do agree that his honesty (up to a point) about what happened to Bran is the best we see of Jaime in that scene.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

That was just so, so good.

HELL yes! I mean, for starters, how gorgeous was that opening shot?

But despite her terrible situation, she yet again showed that there's more to her than appearances suggest.

Yup. And as a consequence, I could almost stand Joffrey too. He's a supremely annoying boy wonder psycho, but when we see him through Cersei's or Sansa's eyes, it becomes less about him. And I really can't wait to see what happens when his grandpa hits King's Landing.

I suspect Tyrion still craves Tywin's approval, just as Jaime does, and that having his father actually poor him a cup of wine meant a hell of a lot to him, even though he was probably telling himself it didn't really mean anything.

They've done a great job over the last couple of episodes of showing some cracks in Tyrion's smartass facade. He likes to portray himself as an unflappable cynic who knows exactly what makes people tick, but...

Completely agreed on the Dany storyline as well. That last shot of her in the soot cradling something, and then the dragon peeking up from behind her... GodDAMN. Her entire storyline has been about giving birth, and there's been some pretty icky connotations there, but that final scene is as much her own rebirth as the birth of those little... drakelets? Dragonettes? She just became something. I really want to know what.

They've spent all season pretending to tell the story of Robert and Ned and Khal, big Manly Men (in Tights) who look like traditional heroes and villains. Now they're swept aside and all the characters whose arcs have been set up in their shadows hit the ground running. Winter to the north, dragons to the south, and all the power structures they set up in their absence in ruins. Should be fun.

[shapinglight]

HELL yes! I mean, for starters, how gorgeous was that opening shot?

Erm..do you mean the sword with the blood dripping off it? It was certainly a very arresting image.

And I really can't wait to see what happens when his grandpa hits King's Landing.

Yes, I'm sure that'll happen at some point. In the meantime, I foresee oodles of conflict between Cersei and Tyrion over him, given that Tyrion apparently can't stand him (in their one scene together Tyrion slapped him repeatedly in the face).

It says even more about how good the actors are in this show that there was a moment - just a moment - in the scene between Sansa and Joffrey when I felt sorry for Joffrey. He turned all uncertain very briefly and you remembered that he's just a child.

They've done a great job over the last couple of episodes of showing some cracks in Tyrion's smartass facade. He likes to portray himself as an unflappable cynic who knows exactly what makes people tick, but...

Yes, he's still vulnerable underneath. I'm pretty sure he knew what Tywin was doing, but he fell for it anyway.

Her entire storyline has been about giving birth, and there's been some pretty icky connotations there, but that final scene is as much her own rebirth as the birth of those little... drakelets? Dragonettes? She just became something. I really want to know what.

Very much so. I had been inadvertently spoilered for what happens to Khal Drogo and the baby (difficult not to be spoilered when people will discuss the books in their comments), and it had surprised me, because I'd thought that even if Drogo died, Dany would spend the rest of the series trying to put their son on the throne. But GRRM appears to have thought of something so much better.

Should be fun.

Oh boy, yes! I can't wait - which is bad considering they haven't even started filming season 2 yet.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Erm..do you mean the sword with the blood dripping off it?

That, and the unfocused shot of the head being lifted, and Arya and whatshisface... they had to establish beyond a shadow of a doubt that Ned is Dead McDead of Deadonia, and that shell-shocked slo-mo opening was just the way to do it. Gruesome, sure, but a brilliant cold open, re-establishing the "Holy shit did that just HAPPEN?" that they left us on in the previous episode.

(in their one scene together Tyrion slapped him repeatedly in the face)

And I really need to get an animated icon of that scene.

because I'd thought that even if Drogo died, Dany would spend the rest of the series trying to put their son on the throne.

Instead she's taken the power for herself. Like Ned convinced Robert to do, the Dothraki leave her to her fate, essentially thinking she's not even worth the trouble of killing. And she may just have risen above a LOT of petty squabbling. Who needs an army and fragile alliances when you have dragons?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I suppose in Season 2 they're going to have to steal liberally from Jaime's stuff from book 3, because last night was literally the only scene Jaime had in Book 2 (there are a few things 'off screen' in Book 2 that have to happen, but that's the only time Jaime speaks in Book 2 and they've already used 90% of the scene). Still there's plenty to borrow for him in Book 3. As to loathing him at this point in the book, I did too. And I can't say that I'm as big a fan of his as some others. Clearly he's one of the lighter gray of the characters but all the characters in the series are flawed so some things just come down to preference. And while he's not without positive qualities (yeah, he actually has them) he isn't my first or second or even third favorite character in the books. Stuff happens and we begin to see more positive qualities.

It'll help his story when they introduce Brienne next season. You'll probably like Brienne.

And dragons! Dragons are cool!

I see they've started Dany freeing slaves early. She started winning me over as a character when she began freeing slaves. I always hated the raping, pillaging, slave taking-selling Dothraki way and thus never had affection for Khal Drogo. I was happy that nearly all the Dothraki deserted Dany except her own blood riders, her handmaids, the old, young, and helpless, and off course Jorah. Now she starts her own journey... and she has dragons!).

[shapinglight]

I suppose in Season 2 they're going to have to steal liberally from Jaime's stuff from book 3

Well, they're going to have to give Nilolau Costa-Waldau something to do, or why should he hang about? I think David Benioff (is it?) has already said they were going to bring forward some of his season 3 stuff to season 2. Same with Robb, who apparently is hardly in book 2 either? Jaime Lannister's character is obviously one we're supposed to find compelling, and I can see that happening (not that I see myself ever liking him that much), but the character hasn't had the material for that so far, except for the scene in the tent with Tywin.

It'll help his story when they introduce Brienne next season. You'll probably like Brienne.

I've seen lots of people mention this character and am intrigued.

I was happy that nearly all the Dothraki deserted Dany except her own blood riders, her handmaids, the old, young, and helpless, and off course Jorah. Now she starts her own journey... and she has dragons!).

Yes, wonderful! It's a measure of how perfunctory the Dothraki storyline has been compared to others that I wasn't aware Dany had her own followers among the Dothraki who belonged more to her than the central group. I just thought the Dothraki with the shorter hair, for instance, who made Viserys walk that time, was her personal servant.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

hey've already used 90% of the scene

No, they actually used about 25% of it and they left out the great speech about vows. I'm kind of unhappy that they put it in this episode, actually.

I like TV Dany more than Book Dany, because I feel like the tv show is at liberty to show that she might be a little crazy too!

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

Yes, stunning, powerful - just no words, I'm shell-shocked.
Brilliance from the first shot to the last: Dany reborn from fire, with the dragons - wow!

And even Roz the whore served some purpose - I may be confused but didn't Pucelle suppose to be blind? Or feeble? And here he shows he's none of those things, so he's a player too, the only one who hasn't shown his cards.

Joffrey and Sansa - spine-chilling and hearbreaking. That poor minstrel!
And Sansa - wow! She's got a great idea going, just needs to work on the execution. I wonder if Joffrey is too stupid to realize he can't be safe alone with her now, and presumably to put a son in her he gotta be alone. But won't put it past him to need guards for that too, like he needed Hound to strike her. *shudder *

And there seems to be a weird bond forming betweent Sansa and Hound for some time, wonder if it'll play a part. She got the worst lot of all, so far...
Arya at least is heading North to her family, but with this show, who knows.

So, we had a generational shift - old kings are dead, new young rulers are here, it's abuot Joffrey, Robb and Dany now, how cool is that?

Don't know what to expect from Dany now - I was scared of her ever since she was enraptured by Drogo's rants about raping, enslaving and killing people for her sake - heh, which girl wouldn't love to hear her bf wanting to rape other women? And her also enraptured by the death of her brother.

She also seems to be OK with burning other people as she can't feel being burnt herself. Yes, her brother deserved it but for me, the witch was right on the money. I was shocked by her execution, yep here's the mad Targarean at it again.
Yes girl, you think Stallion Who Mounts the World is fun for the World? Also, with you shocked by Dothraki raping and killing - what part of Drogo's speech didn't you get? They were just doing what they promised to you.

So no, I don't know what was reborn in that fire - she's naive and young and it could go either way, but she's most of all about power, like in her talks about dragons with that pleasure girl. Dragons can do what they want, be where they want, kill whom they want. She was empowered by Drogo, and I think that's what she loved about him, but now she's left with her own power.
Dany just saw what mercy could do - she showed mercy to that bunch of women and it got folks turning on her and Drogo and her baby killed, so what will she learn from it?
Fascinating.

Jon stays in Night Watch and rides out beyound the Wall, as he should, making his song of Ice. I wonder if he and Dany cross their paths, Ice and Fire, and be main heroes in the end.

But my favorite part there was Mormont admission that if they chopped heads off every deserter then who would man the Wall. And also that yes, folks are whoring around. Ha-ha-ha, such a relief that this institution is human after all, and it was just Ned who was so boneheaded in autimatically chopping a head of that poor guy. Mormont would have listened to him instead.
As they say in Russia, absurdity of laws is mitigated by non-adherence, and the Wall laws did seem absurd to me.
It was a mix of a prison and an army, and how it could exist as being both a worst punishemnt and an honour - just wasn't working for me, was against all human nature. So was nice to see those guys mitigating it. :D

Oh, and Tyrion got the Hand job at the worst possible time... Heh, at least I hope he'll slap Joffrey around some more, or maybe worse.
And I guess my question on who is more dear to Sersei - Joffrey or Jaimie, was answered. Even as I hoped till the last moment that she's just being too motherly to that young Lanister boy, maybe just bathing him and putting him to bed. But no. :D At least she keeps it in the family, and yes, I thought of her and Joffrey too. Or maybe she still cares about Jamie as a brotehr while being cynical about sex?

[shapinglight]

Yes, stunning, powerful - just no words, I'm shell-shocked.
Brilliance from the first shot to the last: Dany reborn from fire, with the dragons - wow!

Amazing scene. I hope someone icons it.

And even Roz the whore served some purpose - I may be confused but didn't Pucelle suppose to be blind? Or feeble? And here he shows he's none of those things, so he's a player too, the only one who hasn't shown his cards.

Hmm, I dunno if I agree Roz served any purpose. I think the showrunners just like getting that woman naked, which - well, I know she has a nice body and her getting naked isn't for my benefit, but I still resent it, especially since they describe the scene where that giant idiot character who helps look after Bran took all his clothes off as equal opportunity nakedness. To compare, we would have to be seeing Jaime Lannister or Robb or one of the other attractive young male characters naked in every other scene. Oh well. I do agree that Master Pycelle is probably putting on an act about how feeble he is. His little knee-bending practise made that very clear.

And Sansa - wow! She's got a great idea going, just needs to work on the execution. I wonder if Joffrey is too stupid to realize he can't be safe alone with her now

I think it would never occur to him that she might try to hurt him. He certainly didn't interpret her stepping towards him in that way. However, I don't think she'll do it again. I think she'll find some other way to fight back. Hope so anyway.

Don't know what to expect from Dany now - I was scared of her ever since she was enraptured by Drogo's rants about raping, enslaving and killing people for her sake - heh, which girl wouldn't love to hear her bf wanting to rape other women? And her also enraptured by the death of her brother.

I don't know what to expect of her either. On the one hand, I like that she's now a power in herself rather than having to rely on being Khal Drogo's wife, but she seems to believe in her own destiny (and why wouldn't she, given what's happened?) and people like that can be very destructive.

On the other hand, I don't think that she thought rape and pillage was fun exactly. I don't think she really understood what it meant until she saw what the Dothraki did to that village. Then she tried to save the victims as well as she could. I do like your point about the give and take with Drogo, though. She was powerless when Viserys gave her to Drogo. He empowered her, if only because she had to find a way to make her life with him bearable. As a consequence she's become more powerful than he could ever have been.

Jon stays in Night Watch and rides out beyound the Wall, as he should, making his song of Ice. I wonder if he and Dany cross their paths, Ice and Fire, and be main heroes in the end.

I've seen other people suggest that. I like the idea but am beginning to suspect it's too pat for GRRM. He seems to be someone who can always find more down.

It was a mix of a prison and an army, and how it could exist as being both a worst punishemnt and an honour - just wasn't working for me, was against all human nature. So was nice to see those guys mitigating it. :D

:) Must say, the Nightwatch scenes have ended up being some of my favourites.

Re: Cersei, I really can't guess what she thinks of Jaime being captured from this last episode, but then she was hardly it it. I think she loves him, but who knows?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

It actually wasn't the Hound who struck her. It was another of his knights (which I wouldn't bother to mention except that it's kind of a 'thing' that the Hound doesn't.)

(And in the book, in what I think was that scene, they stripped her naked and beat her far worse. I think they bypassed the stripping in (understandable!) deference to having such a young actress.

[enisy.livejournal.com]

That final scene was just magical. I think I'll have to take up the books, 'cause it's gonna be a long wait until spring 2012...

[shapinglight]

I think I'm going to continue avoiding the books. Some book readers seem disappointed because their favourite scenes have been left out. I don't want to end up feeling that way. I'll stick to the show for now.

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

I caved in and started reading...
But I only want to read the first book, and then wait for teh 2nd season. I don't want to be disappointed by the book, as the show is getting is so right so far.

[shylahmask.livejournal.com]

As someone who has been following the series avidly AND someone thoroughly obsessed with dragons (I collect dragon-related things), that last shot caused an inordinate amount of squee. I clapped repeatedly. I may have found my new desktop background, if one I can't ever show in public.

As far as I'm concerned, they can take a year for the next season as long as they keep up this level of quality in the show. (Minus Roz the exposition whore. I suppose it says a lot that I thought it was just a random whore until I read your post.)

[shapinglight]

I may have found my new desktop background, if one I can't ever show in public.

:) Maybe a close up of Dany's face with the dragon on her shoulder? I'm waiting impatiently for the icons.

As far as I'm concerned, they can take a year for the next season as long as they keep up this level of quality in the show. (Minus Roz the exposition whore. I suppose it says a lot that I thought it was just a random whore until I read your post.)

I agree, both about the wait and about Roz. I'm sure the character has plenty of fans (the writers/producers, obviously), but I'm not one of them. Her constant inexplicable nudity isn't aimed at me and I'm bored with it.

[lyr]

It was an awesome episode! As a lover of the books, I must say that I am not disappointed at all. The mediums have different strengths, and there are things I love best about each. The books have more detail and depth in the world-building and side characters. The show, though, has some lovely scenes, like the Baelish-Varys conversations, that didn't exist in the books, and the way some of the actors are playing their roles actually makes how I feel about their stories different. I love show!Shae better than book!Shae, for instance; show!Shae has more dignity and spirit, I think. Show!Theon is also more sympathetic than book!Theon - at least so far, but he hasn't really had much to do on the show yet, so we'll have to see how things go.

I started off (both in books and show) viewing Sansa with a vaguely annoyed tolerance. She is a very realistic sheltered teenage girl in the beginning, I think, and I sometimes wanted to shake some sense into her. But she's a wolf beneath it all, and the older she gets - and the more she sees of the world - the more her wolf comes to the surface and the better I like her. Dany never annoyed me, either in book or show, but she certainly became much more interesting when she started to come into her own. I have my own theory about where her storyline and Jon's may be going, though I think my suspicions are pretty much unshared by anyone else.

Characters I would happily never see again: only one. Guess who it is. Go on, guess.

Roz? She doesn't bother me as much as she does you, but I could do without her, certainly.

[shapinglight]

As a lover of the books, I must say that I am not disappointed at all

That's good to know. Also, knowing that you're a lover of the books does make me feel more inclined to try them. Maybe I could do what mrs_underhill is doing and just read the first one. Then read the second one after season 2.

I agree the mediums have very different strengths and it is wonderful if both ways the story is shown play to those strengths to the best of their ability.

I'm glad to know I was right about Sansa. The fact that she considered pushing Joffrey off that bridge rather than jumping said loads about her. I think that next time they meet Arya will be very surprised at the change in her.

As for Dany, her character has hat this strange, dreamlike story - a little perfunctory in places but still compelling. I honestly don't know what she might do next but I can't wait to find out.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Horribly I had no time to watch the episode yet, because yesterday was insanely busy but I wanted to drop by to say thank you for the paid LJ time!!!

I love it! Room for game of thrones icons, polls! Thank you! And hopefully tonight I will have time for an extended GoT post.

I only took a sneak peek at the baby dragons and god, waiting for next season is going to be so hard.

[shapinglight]

:)

And enjoy the episode. It's utterly brilliant IMO. You'll love it.