Game of Thrones question for the book readers

[shapinglight]

A quick question for Game of Thrones, viewers/readers, because I've been pointlessly wracking my brains about this all day.

Spoilers behind cut for anyone who hasn't seen the show.



I haven't managed to rewatch any more episodes. However, I was mulling on the part played in the Dany story by the mysterious Illyrio. If I'm remembering right, he sheltered Dany and Viserys at his home for a whole year gratis, gave them presents, addressed them as if Viserys really were king of Westeros, etc. Also, he gave Dany the dragons' eggs as a wedding present (am surprised Viserys didn't cut up rough about that in retrospect and demand they be given to him). Yet I have this nagging memory that it's Illyrio having the whispered conversation with Varys that Arya overhears in the tunnels under Kingslanding (or whatever the palace is called), and yet Varys is behind the plot to kill Dany that is foiled by Jorah Mormont changing sides.

Can you tell me - am I just remembering it wrong? Maybe it wasn't Illyrio talking with Varys at all? However, if it was, while I can understand that he might have been giving Dany and her brother shelter so as to make it easier to keep an eye on them for Varys, what was his motive in brokering the marriage with Khal Drogo, and most of all, in giving Dany the dragons' eggs? Is he playing both sides against the middle?

It it explained better in the books? If so, can someone explain it to me without spoilering me for later stuff?

Comments

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

It is Illyrio talking to Varys, but I'm not sure about their motives either.

[shapinglight]

Oh. I suppose that means GRRM hasn't explained them yet. Does Illyrio crop up again in later books, or is GoT the only time we see him?

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Roughly he has. Varys really wants to keep the peace and basically the fittest king. Illyrio's motives are more shady. But I have to say, there is so much I have forgotten from the third and fourth book that I don't feel qualified to state what's revealed before I've reread them all.

[shapinglight]

Fair enough. I can understand forgetting stuff. shipperx tells me some of the books at 1000 pages long or more. That suggests an awful lot of information to take in.

I would imagine GRRM has files on each character and what their motives really are, otherwise I don't see how he would keep track.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

There's two things going on here - Varys has sent Jorah on the behalf of King Robert to ascertain Dany's whereabouts, spy on her, determin if she or her brother are a threat so that an assassin can take out Dany if need be.
Jorah supplies word via Illyrios that Dany is pregnant and a threat. Varys tells Robert - Robert orders the assassination.

Illyrios...doesn't know Varys is a double-agent. Varys often will play two sides against the middle. There's a lot on Varys in Tyrion's pov in both Clash and Storm, and Tyrion pretty much has Varys and Little Finger's numbers.
So Illyrios wants the Taragryns, Varys wants what is best to keep the peace - which at this point is King Robert. Varys sends the assassin.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Actually, I screwed up on the above comment. Illyrios doesn't know that Jorah was sent as a spy. The Varys/Illyrios conversation is completely separate from the Jorah/Varys/Robert and assassin bit. All of this gets revealed and explained in SoS (3rd book). Right now it's confusing, because in the books we aren't in Jorah or Robert or Varys pov's of view, just Ayra and Dany and Eddard Stark - who get bits and pieces of the plot, but never the whole
thing together.

But here it is as I vaguely remember it from Storm and the tv series:

Illyrios doesn't want Dany dead and had no knowledge of the assassination attempt.
Jorah was sent to spy for Robert. He sent word back. And got the message that they'd sent an assassin, which he decides to stop.
Robert sent an assassin through Varys or ordered Varys to do it, then later told Ned to call it off - but it was too late.

[shapinglight]

Thanks for that. So Illyrio really is just backing the Targaryens? I would've thought any lengthy interaction with Viserys would persuade him he was flogging a dead horse. Maybe that's why he gave the dragons' eggs to Dany?

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I think so. Also there's this whole weird convoluted backstory about what really happened during or just prior to Robert Barratheon's battle with Aerys Taragryn for the Throne. It's not clear whether Rhagear kidnapped Lyanna or they ran off together. The third book sort of sheds a whole new light on all the stuff we're told in the first two books, and as a result puts both Ned and Robert in less than honorable lights.

It's more than possible that Illyrios much like Ned, thinks Viserys and Dany are the true heirs to the throne and Robert is little more than an usurper. Robert after all is not that much better than Viserys. We're looking at him mostly through Ned's eyes...but when Ned's not around, we get to see why some of Joffrey's sadism comes from his desire to emulate Robert. More of this is revealed via flashbacks in the third book. The back story is really convoluted.
It's slowly revealed in bits and pieces through the books and a bit of a mystery...we think we know what happened in that initial war in Game, only to find out...uh, no, that's not it in Storm of Swords.
Makes the story in some respects more interesting, but also difficult to follow in places.

[shapinglight]

The third book sort of sheds a whole new light on all the stuff we're told in the first two books, and as a result puts both Ned and Robert in less than honorable lights.

That's interesting. I wonder if GRRM always planned to do that, or if he got to book 3 and thought, "Let's muddy the waters a little."

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I think it's the latter. I'm getting the impression that Martin sort of makes this up as he goes along. The reason I state that - is he said in his blog that he had written himself into a bit of a corner with the first two or three books, and wished he could change some things. The kids were too young, he should have made them older. Also, part of the reason Dance of Dragons took so long to finish (it was supposed to take only a year - the afterward in Feast, from Martin, promises that the next book will be out the next year, possibly sooner - 6 years later...), is that he had to rewrite all of it in order to make it work with the fifth book. Apparently he finished it, started working on the fifth book and pulled it back from his editor, because it didn't work. Or something like that.

[shapinglight]

Even more interesting.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thought so too. I keep trying to figure out what he wanted to change.
Also makes the books less predictable not that they are...that is one thing I'll give him - it's not predictable.