Game of Thrones season 2 ep 2: The (almost) clueless about the books POV

[shapinglight]

Was a bit late getting to watch the episode today and haven't read what anyone else thought yet.

Spoilers behind cut



I haven't seen many season 2 icons I've liked so far. This is one of them. Have a lot of the makers left the fandom/gone to Tumblr?

Anyway, another episode, with some very unsettling stuff in it (though it wouldn't be GoT, would it, without the unsettling stuff?), a few more new characters - Balon Greyjoy and his daughter (I didn't catch her name, but I like her), the pirate captain (another well known face on Brit telly), and Davos's son (though he was in the first ep, I think, the person reading Stannis's letter?). Also, goodbye to some familiar characters. Poor Rakharo!

Poor Theon too. I had a feeling his homecoming probably wouldn't be what he was hoping/expecting, and I can't say he's a likeable character, but I did feel sorry for him. His father is just a nasty old man, and the Iron Islands look the exact opposite of fun. In fact, they're almost (not quite) as grim as things beyond the Wall, though with less snow.

Speaking of beyond the Wall, I'm beginning to think Jon Snow is extremely stupid. It's been obvious to me from the start that Craster must be doing something horrible with any boy babies his 'wives' had (is he feeding them to the things with the blue glow-y eyes, as seen in season 1, ep 1?). I can't think why it isn't obvious to Jon. I did enjoy the scene where Sam tried to talk Jon into helping one of the 'wives', though. Sam is such a sweetie. "I can't steal her. She's a person, not a goat." Aww!

Also very enjoyable was Janos Slynt's comeuppance, though on the down side it led to Bronn saying something distinctly unfunny, which is probably a salutary reminder that he's a mercenary and if someone offers him more than Tyrion's offering him (Cersei or Joffrey, for instance), he'll turn on Tyrion in seconds. Hopefully, it won't happen for a while though (am pretty sure it's just been telegraphed that it will happen one day), and in the meantime, the Night's Watch get an extra man. Janos Slynt isn't much, but he's a cut above some of the ones Arya's travelling with.

The Arya/Gendry scene was one of my favourites. The two of them spark well off each other. If it weren't that Arya is only about twelve, I'd probably 'ship them.

I enjoyed the Tyrion/Cersei scene too. (I'm glad it wasn't Cersei who ordered the children's murders). With so many new characters that there now isn't room for all the characters in every episode (no Robb, Catelyn, Sansa or Bran in this one), it's important that we have a character like Tyrion, who has a connection with all the characters we've already met (even Dany indirectly, since he's met Jorah's dad) to give a sense of continuity, and to make sure those characters who are off screen don't get forgotten. It's nice, too, to realise that, no matter how much they may dislike each other, Cersei and Tyrion are at least united in their love of Jaime. Ironically, though, given the way that conversation devolves, if she would let him, Tyrion would probably be much more help to Cersei than Jaime was.

Speaking of new characters, re: Stannis and Melisandre, interesting that he reacted to her attempt at seduction the way he did. I may be wrong, but I don't think he cares about the sex at all, or that she's so beautiful. He just wants an heir.

Finally, Dany is going to have to do something pretty quick, isn't she, unless one of the other bloodriders has better luck than poor Rakharo. :(

Other scenes: the Ros/Littlefinger scene was horrible, but seemed manufactured to me, in that I can't see Ros behaving that way. I don't mean she wouldn't be upset about the baby's murder, but I just feel, from what I've seen of her so far, that she's way too canny to let Littlefinger see it. I also think that, as more and more new characters are introduced, Ros and the brothel interludes will begin to seem even more of a waste of time than they already do. It's not like we need a reminder of how ruthless Littlefinger is.

In brief: Sam is a sweetie.

Worst thing about the ep: no one slapped Joffrey.

Comments

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

if someone offers him more than Tyrion's offering him (Cersei or Joffrey, for instance), he'll turn on Tyrion in seconds

Tyrion is way ahead of you; one of the first things he told Bronn after he got out of jail was "Whatever anyone pays you, I'll always double it". So as long as he's member of the richest family in the land... Of course, there's at least two "if"s in that.

Worst thing about the ep: no one slapped Joffrey.

He was slapped by the Hound offscreen. Trufax.

[shapinglight]

He was slapped by the Hound offscreen. Trufax.

:)

It's true Tyrion knows Bronn for what he is, and has done right from the start. It's a shame he can't trust him, but at least he knows that.

As for doubling what someone else offers Bronn, I suppose it rather depends who that someone is.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Glad you enjoyed it :) It's so good to have the show back.

Sam is a total sweetie.

I think the neat thing about Bronn is that he is so honest about it.

Arya and Gendry were totally lovely, also when Arya had spilled her beans and it was Gendry they were actually after.

I don't know why the Stannis thing bugs me so. maybe because of Davos. He kind of goes on Stannis being a really honest man. And really that's the best thing that can be said about Stannis. But people who have read the books more recently said it's heavily implied there too.

And the symbolic fuck of Westeros was a great shot.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Well, Stannis sees himself as totally just and honest, and Davos, who, for some inexplicable reason loves Stannis, seems to concur with Stannis's opinion of himself, but ... he comes across as kind of entitled and whiny and just as willing to do anything for power (including renouncing his religion) as any of the other kings contending for the throne. So I don't think it was really too off to show his hypocrisy with regards to Melisandre and cheating on his wife. (On the other hand, given that Robert was his brother, and how it's clear that this is the first time Stannis has cheated on the missus, I'll give him props for that much. :))

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Hm, I always saw Stannis as lawful evil in D&D terms. He is a heartless, stuck up prick and he has no true morals. But he does stick to the letter of the law.

But maybe I was seeing it too strictly. I'll have to read up on it on the books. It's ten years past that I read Clash and my English was worse back then.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I can't go into why I dislike Stannis because *SPOILERS* but yes, he is very focused on the letter of the law, not its spirit, and even the letter of the law is malleable when he thinks it infringes on his "rights."

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Stannis always seemed like something of a hypocrit who liked to say he's lawful and just but, funny, isn't it how what is 'just' also coincides with "what best serves him"?

But in addition to Stannis daughter perhaps not existing, isn't he also supposed to be raising one of Robert's bastards? Although I can understand if they're wary of overwhelming us with new characters, I would've thought they would at least be extras in the background to be namechecked.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

If you mean Edric, no, Stannis is not raising him. He's at Storm's End with Renly.

[shapinglight]

It's so good to have the show back.

It is. I'll be on tenterhooks the whole time I'm in California, because I'll be missing the last two episodes. ;)

He kind of goes on Stannis being a really honest man. And really that's the best thing that can be said about Stannis. But people who have read the books more recently said it's heavily implied there too.

I don't know if I'm just jaded, or what, but Stannis having sex with Melisandre didn't strike me as dishonest really. Possibly because we haven't seen (and probably won't see) Mrs Stannis. She doesn't feel real to me.

And the symbolic fuck of Westeros was a great shot.

It was, though I'm sure Stannis would be shocked and disgusted if anyone had described it to him like that.

[whichclothes.livejournal.com]

We're DVRing the entire series so maybe you can catch up when you visit. :-)

[whichclothes.livejournal.com]

I'm with you 100%. Sam is a sweetie and I continue to love Tyrion--not because he's especially good, but because he's such an interesting character.

Can nobody in this story keep his hands off his sister??

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Robb and Bran. That's about it. ;)

[whichclothes.livejournal.com]

:-)

[shapinglight]

Can nobody in this story keep his hands off his sister??

They do seem a very incest-y lot. I keep expecting to learn that Jon Snow's mother was Ned Stark's sister.

[whichclothes.livejournal.com]

LOL! Now, that would fit the theme, wouldn't it?

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I think the contrast between Janos and Bronn was that Janos wouldn't admit that he was in the pocket of whoever paid him the most, and Tyrion was sick of his hypocrisy too. Besides, better to have his own employee in a crucial spot than someone who took orders from Joff (or Cersei.)

I'm really glad to see that you think Tyrion and Cersei are united in their love of Jaime - I feel that it's much clearer in the book that one of Tyrion's goals is the release of his brother from captivity. I feel like that relationship has been a bit downplayed by the show, honestly, and I could have used a line or two from Tyrion about how he too wants to get Jaime back (you know, like when they were discussing Robb's terms :P)

I would have felt sorrier for Theon if he hadn't been such an absolute jackass to the poor captain's daughter. I HATED him for that. Also, I really like his sister (who is Asha in the books, renamed Yara for the series, because I guess Asha sounded too similar to Osha.)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I remember those chapters from Theon's POV in the book, and he was just a disgusting troll in all of them. It immediately had me LOATHING Theon in a big way.

I too love Asha/Yara. She's not quite as I pictured, but I still like her.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I think they've done a good job with making him all Troll-y in the show too (between his comments about wanting to screw Cersei in the first episode of the series, and his interactions with Ros - ok that's one scene of hers I liked because it told us about Theon - and Osha and now the captain's daughter and Asha.) He's just gross, and overcompensating in a big way, and ... yeah. Blech!

Also, Robb, Catelyn was right to tell you not to trust Balon Greyjoy!

[shapinglight]

Besides, better to have his own employee in a crucial spot than someone who took orders from Joff (or Cersei.)

Much better, though it wouldn't surprise me at all if Cersei tried to get Bronn on her side by offering to triple whatever Tyrion had promised him.

I feel like that relationship has been a bit downplayed by the show, honestly, and I could have used a line or two from Tyrion about how he too wants to get Jaime back (you know, like when they were discussing Robb's terms :P)

Hmm, I dunno. I felt it came across pretty clearly, but kind of got subsumed into what Cersei was saying about Jaime not having been forgotten, which of course Tyrion was cynical about. Not that he didn't believe her, but more that he thinks it's all a bit...off? I don't know. Hard to think of a word. I don't think Tyrion's disgusted exactly, but more thinking, bloody typical.

I HATED him for that.

He was pretty hateful, I agree. She wasn't someone who could fight back like Ros, or even Osha. I suppose I saw it as being part and parcel of Theon's huge inferiority complex. Which doesn't excuse it, but perhaps explains it.

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

I didn't read Book 2 but it was clear to me that both Tyrion and Cersei wanted Jaimie back, it was in a way they looked at each other when speaking about him (I love their unspoken interactions so much!), and also of course in how Tyrion was trying to keep negotiations with Robb, and Jaimie's chances, alive.

[shapinglight]

Yes, I agree. They're together in that, if in nothing else.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Well, Jon has a little too much Ned in him to necessarily be quick to figure out these sorts of things. ;)

Theon's sister is Asha in the book (renamed Yara for the series). I rather like her.

In the books I loved this bit with Tyrion where he was kicking butt and taking names. His shipping Janos Slynt off seemed to serve as just a little justice for Ned in the book (at least to me). Here it seemed largely motivated by the slaughter of the innocents, but as the slaughter was handled more 'off screen' in the books, somehow I placed the emphasis more on the Ned aspect.

And I think I do sort of ship Arya/Gendry (in a very chaste/platonic way because in the books they're both kids and are way too young for more than that.) But I enjoyed their interactions.

[shapinglight]

Well, Jon has a little too much Ned in him to necessarily be quick to figure out these sorts of things. ;)

Yes, he's not the brightest spark. Good thing he has Sam (and Ghost) to look after him.

I like Yara too, though I don't think anyone from the Iron Islands is going to turn out terribly well. They seem a very dour sort of place.

Here it seemed largely motivated by the slaughter of the innocents, but as the slaughter was handled more 'off screen' in the books, somehow I placed the emphasis more on the Ned aspect.

I suppose they probably bounced it off the baby slaughter more because it happened in this series? I don't know.

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

I love Cersei and Tyrion interactions, there is so much depth in it!
I'm glad it was Jeoffrey who ordered the bastard murders. I saw comments that it's different in the books and that it's wrong that it wasn't Cersei, but it makes so much more sense for it to be Jeoffrey, because it's spiteful and stupid.
Yes, let's kill all the bastards when there is a rumour that you're a bastard too, no, not suspicious at all, not proving your rumour in any way! It had show!Jeoffrey all over it.
I'm so glad Cersei is has much more depth in the show than in the books. Could be the books are raw material and the series is a finished product?
Now she's also given a reason to despise Tyrion beyound him being a dwarf and an embarrasment - he killed her mother! (Same with Viserys hating Daenerys for it).
And yet there is a feeling between them like a brother and sister, especially when they were talking about Jaimie... Great stuff.

Loved Tyrion dispatching that Gold Cloaks chief, yay! Concerning that Bronn can turn out the same for him, with now 3 Lannisters ready to pay him top price.
Loved how Tyrion clashed with Varys, similar with Cersei clashing with LittleFinger earlier.

In other stuff - great setting for Iron Islands, so harsh and so northern seas. Loved the twist with Yara, Theon's sister and whatever is brewing there is intriguing.

But had to giggle at Theon's "there's iron and salt in my blood!" Baby, there's iron and salt in the blood of all of us, it's called hemoglobyn and we'd be dead if that wasn't the case. :D

Loved Arya and Gendry friendship and Night Watch captain being badass against the Gold Cloaks. Arya spilled everything to Gendry, bless her, but her instincts for good people are correct, so I think it's for the best.

I hope those guys in the cage won't get weapons training like other NW recruits but will stay in that cage and do some menial stuff there like peeling potatoes - or no, something without sharp objects... Maybe they'll use them as bait for wildlings? They just don't look like people who should be let out of that cage...

Ugh, disgusting scene with Rose the whore again, in many ways. On top of it beeing nasty and gross, it was also unnecessary and Rose was unconvincing in her grief. She is BORING! Damn it, I demand some hot steamy scenes with Renly and his lover in the next episode, to compensate for this.

[shapinglight]

I'm glad it was Jeoffrey who ordered the bastard murders. I saw comments that it's different in the books and that it's wrong that it wasn't Cersei, but it makes so much more sense for it to be Jeoffrey, because it's spiteful and stupid.

I agree. Not that I don't think Cersei can be spiteful, but I don't think she's stupid either. She knew it was a bad idea to kill Ned. I'm glad she has more depth too. Watching someone irredeemably evil gets boring after a while. Besides, she must have some qualities that appealed to Jaime, surely?

And yet there is a feeling between them like a brother and sister, especially when they were talking about Jaimie... Great stuff.

I agree. they do both want him back.

Otherwise, yeah, you loved pretty much what I loved, and loathed what I loathed (the unnecessary Ros/Baelish scene).

Great to see you. Did you know the show's been renewed for a third season already?