Game of Thrones season 2 ep 5: The (almost) clueless about the books POV

[shapinglight]

That's more like it. Having said which....

Spoilers behind cut.



.....Waah! Poor Renly. Not happy that he's gone (though guessed it was going to happen). Stannis and Melisandre are a very poor substitute for Renly and Loras, in my opinion.

This episode fairly rocketed along, didn't it, with great scenes for Tyrion and Bronn (Bronn finally got more than one line an episode, and every single one a gem), Arya and the scary bloke with the two-coloured hair (I keep not getting his name), Brienne and Catelyn (that may be my favourite scene, in fact. Brienne has this strange, childlike innocence about her, and I think Cat has warmed to her for that reason) Jon and Sam and the well-hard men of the Night's Watch, (some of them are so well-hard they don't even wear hats, despite the weather), and best of all, Bran and Osha and Dany and Jorah.

That Dany/Jorah scene was a bit upsetting actually. She finally realises how he really feels about her. He realises she realises. Cue much angst and embarrassment. It's not going to end well, is it?

All the Quarth scenes were absolutely gorgeous to look at, with lots of mysteries thrown in. Who is the mysterious lady in the metal mask? Why are Doreah and Irri fighting so much? Will the Dothraki ever learn to play nice (unlikely) etc, etc. I fear the worst for poor Jorah, though. :(

It's also not going to end well for Ser Rodrik, I'm pretty sure. Theon has found a crony and enabler and he's desperate to get one over on his bolshy sister. Winterfell is in big, big trouble.

From what people had to say after last week's episode, I gather the Harrenhal scenes in the book were extremely gruesome (though not as gruesome as in later books when the flaying!yay! Boltons get going). If so, maybe they chose to dial it back a bit this week, after the nastiness of last week's ep. At any rate, I'm glad to see Arya and Gendry safe (for the moment), and glad that first off, the rat in a bucket man is dead (though not quite sure why Arya was so keen to use one of her 'wishes' on him. Presumably, in the book, she sees him do way worse than he did in ep 4, though it was bad enough) and also glad we were spared the gory details. Speaking of Two-Tone Hair Bloke, though, I wonder what happened to the other two men in the cage - you know, the not-chatty ones (their conversation seemed to consist mostly of Raargh! as far as I remember)?

I'm also wondering about the title of the episode. Can anyone fill me in (in a non-spoilery way), as to why it's called The Ghosts of Harrenhal? I have a feeling that what happened in the book is probably so nasty that last week's ep was a mere taste of it, and that the episode title may possibly not feel 'earned' to those who have read it (though on the plus side, at least this meant the episode was watchable).

Yeah, it was good. The war is hotting up. I am very sorry about Renly, though.

Trivial stuff:

Dany looked gorgeous in that dress, but an awful lot of women at the party seem to have been to the same dress shop. She should complain that her wannabe fiance didn't buy her a one-off. Cheapskate!
Is the Red God (as mentioned by Two-Tone Hair Bloke) different to the Lord of Light? I'm confused.
I wonder what's happened to Nymeria?

Comments

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

The multi-colored hair guy is called Jaquen :D (And you are VERY clever for noticing that the Red God and the Lord of Light are the same, because of the fire thing!)

I think Arya didn't truly believe he could deliver on his promise and it would have been dangerous for her to trust him and say something like "Tywin Lannister" so she said Tickler (he was the guy who was about to kill Gendry when Tywin rode in last week!)

I LOVE that you love Brienne and Brienne/Cat. Brienne is probably my favorite female character in the books, because she's so different from what most fantasy fare sells us as a warrior babe. (Even the ones who aren't tiny are like Lucy Lawless, you know?) I adore her! And Catelyn is pretty amazing in these episodes too! I can't wait for you to see more of Brienne's story.

I too felt so awful about Renly, even though I obviously knew it was coming; I think, even more than Renly's actual death, it was Brienne's and Loras's reactions that made me so sad (sort of like how Buffy's death was less gutting than how everyone reacted to it!)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Brienne's and Loras's grief seemed quite real (I remember a scene in one of the books of Loras speaking about having lost his one true love. That's the scene that I always remember when you read someone who didn't pick up on the Renly/Loras thing. Who did they think he was speaking of if not Renly? Loras' heart was broken by Renly's death.)

[shapinglight]

:sob: It was very sad. Not to mention Renly was worth ten of Stannis.

[shapinglight]

(And you are VERY clever for noticing that the Red God and the Lord of Light are the same, because of the fire thing!)

Heh! And there I went and edited the bit about the fire out of my post. Think I'll go and stick it back in again.

I LOVE that you love Brienne and Brienne/Cat

It would be very hard not to. Cat obviously feels very motherly towards Brienne, I think. Even though she just saw her kill two men in combat, Brienne has this naive, innocent quality that really makes you worry for her. And Brienne's respect for Cat's 'womanly courage' was very touching too. I'm looking forward to seeing more of them.

I too felt so awful about Renly, even though I obviously knew it was coming;

:( I did hope he might get a few more episodes before the end. Though come to think of it, the season is half over already, isn't it? How on earth did that happen?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I'm also wondering about the title of the episode. Can anyone fill me in
The deaths that Jaquen deals at Arya's behest are mysterious and thus are blamed on "ghosts".

As far as why the Tickler first (he wasn't first in the books BTW), my take on the scene was she wasn't at all sure that Jaquen could actually do what he was promising. Though the Tickler wasn't who she picked in the book (which was part and parcel of the restaging of her being Tywin's cup bearer. In the book, when Tywin was in charge of the castle she was a scullery maid or something (don't remember precisely what) and being physically abused by task master in the kitchens(?) and that was him she had killed first. Having skipped that part of the story, they choose someone on her 'list'). But it definitely came of as a 'test' in that she wasn't sure that he could pull it off. She's reacting somewhat viscerally and immediately to her environment.
All the Quarth scenes were absolutely gorgeous to look at, with lots of mysteries thrown in. Who is the mysterious lady in the metal mask?
I don't remember her from the book and yet (conversely) I'll say that there's an explanation in the book. (And I realize that doesn't make a great deal of sense at this point but it will eventually).

It's also not going to end well for Ser Rodrik, I'm pretty sure
Could Bran's dream be any more foreboding? And poor kid. He's trying to be a good lord (so few people are in Westeros!) and having heard Theon's plan we know that poor Bran did exactly what Theon predicted that he would.

a very poor substitute for Renly and Loras, in my opinion.
Loras isn't gone. And I very much hope that we 'see' a scene that was handled on the periphery in the book.

Is the Red God (as mentioned by Two-Tone Hair Bloke) different to the Lord of Light? I'm confused I'm going with... yes. I had thought they had changed something, but it was pointed out that in the book Jaqen also attributed it to the Red God, so it actually wasn't a change. I think the theory is this -- Jaquen and the other two would have died by fire. The God of Light is the 'god of fire' and thus the specific god 'owed' those lives. I think that's his rationale.

And may I add my reaction to a scene... I blurted out "Book Gendry didn't look like that!" :) My, smutty Gendry looked good this ep. :)

I fear the worst for poor Jorah, though. :(
Angst and reversals are a given in this series, but would it help if I say that Jorah is still alive and kicking even by the end of "A Dance with Dragons"?

[shapinglight]

The deaths that Jaquen deals at Arya's behest are mysterious and thus are blamed on "ghosts".

Ah, I see. Also, thanks for the info on what's been left out. I suppose this means Arya spent all of Book 2 and possibly longer stuck in Harrenhal? Now I'm wondering who she'll pick to die next if she's already skipped one person from the book.

I'd be sorry if she picked Tywin, because Charles Dance is just so good in the role.

Jaquen. It's not hard, is it? I'm sure I can remember it if I try.

He's trying to be a good lord (so few people are in Westeros!) and having heard Theon's plan we know that poor Bran did exactly what Theon predicted that he would.

Yes, Theon knows the Starks too well, unfortunately.

Angst and reversals are a given in this series, but would it help if I say that Jorah is still alive and kicking even by the end of "A Dance with Dragons"?

It helps a bit, though I'm sure whatever he's doing he's utterly miserable, and I currently can't imagine what he'd be doing if he's not with Dany.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Jorah is travelling with Tyrion (trying to reach Dany) where Martin left off.

[shapinglight]

That sounds quite promising. It'll be years until the show gets there, though (if it does - I still wonder what will happen if the show gets cancelled before they manage to finish the story, or if they catch up with GRRM and he still hasn't finished it).

[kikimay]

I absolutely loved the scene between Cat and Brienne: cool ladies are cool! And I'm sorry for Renly, he died so soon! But I hope we'll see more of Loris. I'm kinda sad for Jorah! Dany doesn't feel for him that kind of love, I think.

[shapinglight]

I'm kinda sad for Jorah! Dany doesn't feel for him that kind of love, I think.

No, she doesn't. What's more, I had the impression she regards his feelings as a betrayal of sorts. Poor Jorah.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

In the books the random deaths and such are blamed on the ghost of Harrenhal, who is basically Arya (and Jaquen H'quar, or something like that)

The red god bit I find a bit weird, because in the books the cult of death he's part of has nothing to do with the lord of light. No idea, maybe they fuse religions together because there are too many around already.

Looking forward to the ep. So glad there's a holiday tomorrow and I'll get to watch it in peace.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

The red god bit I find a bit weird, because in the books the cult of death he's part of has nothing to do with the lord of light.

Actually, Rh'llor, whom Melisandre worships is called the Lord of Light (by his followers) but also known as the Red God (with concomittant Red Priests and Priestesses.) Jaquen follows the Many-Faced God (which is basically EVERYONE!) but in this instance he says specifically that the Red God is owed three deaths because Arya rescued him, Rorge and Biter from death by fire specifically.

[shapinglight]

I think I'm just going to take it that they're the same god (and just hope Jaquen doesn't go in for making shadow babies).

[shapinglight]

Looking forward to the ep. So glad there's a holiday tomorrow and I'll get to watch it in peace.

You haven't watched it yet? :(

I hope you enjoy it. We usually have a Bank Holiday around 1st May here too but it's been put back a week. The government would like to scrap it if they could. Not keen on the rights of working people. Maybe I could set Jaquen on them?

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

No shampaign popping for Renly. :( He didn't even survived a minute in this episode!

I feel robbed because they just set up Renly, Loras, Margeorie, Brienne, which I was looking forward to to interacting, and the moment they are assembled - boom, it all goes to shambles! I could watch them for hours, dammit!

And what's insulting is that Renly is killed by a Plot Device. That's cheating! I hate Stannis and Melisandre even more for this! And wish a similar indignity on them - maybe they can be savaged by a Killer Rabbit suddenly sprang out of nowhere. Urgh.

I know it's the show trying to cram all the plots into 10 hours, and hope Renly camp got more time to develop in the book. So far it's been a whiplash - we just start getting into one plot and it's destroyed and we are pulled into another one.

On the plus side - no ugly sex and gore in this show, meaning I could rewatch it.

Brienne and Loras were very moving. :( I liked how it introduced levels of mess - only Cat and Brienne saw the assassin (who looked like Stannis, yes!), then they got suspected by Tyrells, who in turn will be suspected by Renly's bannermen and now we have many more factions fighting each other. Plus Theon turning on Starks, it's all going to hell fast!

But I loved how Loras immediately stopped blaming Brienne and got that it was Stannis. Despite being jealous of Brienne. I only hope that when they meet Stannis they won't fight about who should be the first to kill him and just do the job. *hate Stannis*
Loved how both Cat/Brienne and Loras/Margeorie pairs had respect, love and human decency in them. I don't think these camps will fight each other, I think they'll turn on common enemies instead.
And I'm intrigued by Margeorie "The Queen"" comment.

Yes, Brienne has this childlike earnesty and innocence. I'm glad she and Cat are together now.

Big focus on Dany and Co, very intriguing now! It seems Dany is ready to move on from Dothraki period in her life, even if she denies it outwardly and to herself.
That's the reason for the tension between Irri and the other girl. Irri is hurt and jealous that Dany is leaving them behind, turning back to where she belongs - to the civilized ways and big politics.

What Dany said about Drogo was very telling and not in a vein of "aww my moon and stars" - yes, she was sold to him for an army and chance to regain the throne, and then she almost sold herself to Xaro for the same thing.
Jorah made her realized that, but he also let his feelings out... Ahh, awkward... Dany certainly questioned his perception of her - if she really was such a unique, exalted figure destined to rule or was that Jorah's lovestruck eyes? A bit of both, I think.

All those Quarth events got suddenly very interesting.

Was anyone creeped out when Dany told her "pleasure" girl to sleep around to get info on Xaro? I know that what her trade and that's why she was bought by Vaserys (sp? already forgot his name) into Dany's service, but I got to see her as Dany's friend. And now Dany reminded her of her place...

Now to the Ghost of Harrenhal, who we find out is Jaqen, and who can kill 3 people for Arya. I got it that Tickler was more of a test, but whom Arya would pick next? After her "anyone can be killed", maybe Tywin Lannister? Hope it's not Polliver - she can take care of him herself, I bet. Maybe Jeoffrey?

How is she's still in same boy's dirty smelly (and crawling with insects I bet) clothes, mucking with lords' food and drinks? Isn't Tywin concerned with his hygiene? That bothered me.

While in King's landing Tyrion discovers a stack of WMDs prepared for Cercei. Could say it's a Plot Device like that Shadow Monster, but this one is earned. It's byproduct of Dragon's fire and there's huge risk in using it. I wonder what Tyrion plans to do with them...

Jon Snow story doesn't grip me yet this season. And me and my husband both were incredulous they weren't wearing hats in such weather, except that Hat guy who took Jon on a raid, and who was a bore. On rewatch I got that their plan was similar to Stannis - assasinate the leader and hope that the army disperses. We'll see where it goes.

[shapinglight]

I feel robbed because they just set up Renly, Loras, Margeorie, Brienne, which I was looking forward to to interacting, and the moment they are assembled - boom, it all goes to shambles! I could watch them for hours, dammit!

I agree. It's very sad. :( I would far rather have seen more of them than of Stannis and Melisandre, but sadly, I suppose they're stuck with what GRRM has written.

But I loved how Loras immediately stopped blaming Brienne and got that it was Stannis. Despite being jealous of Brienne. I only hope that when they meet Stannis they won't fight about who should be the first to kill him and just do the job. *hate Stannis*

Yes, considering how he feels about Brienne, I thought that was big of Loras (unless of course he just meant that Brienne had to be working for Stannis).

That's the reason for the tension between Irri and the other girl. Irri is hurt and jealous that Dany is leaving them behind, turning back to where she belongs - to the civilized ways and big politics.

Yes, thinking about it afterwards, that was obvious. It's been Irri all along who has stuck most closely to Dothraki traditions (she didn't like the way Dany spoke about Drogo at all, even though it was true). Doreah, however, isn't Dothraki so it's no wonder she feels back in her element. I just hope Irri's jealousy and unease at their surroundings isn't going to lead to anything too unpleasant.

Was anyone creeped out when Dany told her "pleasure" girl to sleep around to get info on Xaro?

You know, I actually missed that. I'll have to rewatch.

How is she's still in same boy's dirty smelly (and crawling with insects I bet) clothes, mucking with lords' food and drinks? Isn't Tywin concerned with his hygiene? That bothered me

Heh! I think her hair looked tidier at least.


On the plus side - no ugly sex and gore in this show, meaning I could rewatch it.

Yes, I don't think I could have coped with another episode like last week's. It really was horrible.

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

Much better than last week.

Yeah, poor Renly. I wasn't expecting a good end for him, but I didn't beliebe it would be quite so quick. And after I spent most of Sunday afternoon explaining who he was to my mum too!

Brienne and Catelyn were great, though I did feel more warmed to Cat than Brienne who is far too subservient for me to truly like her yet.

>>Jon and Sam and the well-hard men of the Night's Watch, (some of them are so well-hard they don't even wear hats, despite the weather

I thought that. Jon at least looked bloody freezing though!

The Quarth people didn't make me laugh inappropriately this week.

[shapinglight]

And after I spent most of Sunday afternoon explaining who he was to my mum too!

:(

I don't know if Brienne's subservient exactly. She does seem very naive, though, living some kind of chivalric fantasy. She's sort of like Sansa, except much taller and with a sword.

The Quarth people didn't make me laugh inappropriately this week.

I thought those scenes were gorgeous to look at. Filmed in Morocco, I think.

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

Chivalric fantasy, naivety or subservience it's all a bit too needy/grovelly for me.

I have decided I cannot stand it any longer, I keep getting spoiled. I am reading the books.

[shapinglight]

I hope you enjoy them. I admit, I struggled with Book 1 (in that it took me six months to read it).

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

I have audiobooks ready for the gruelling bits.

I'm not actually all that impressed by the writing quality so far.

[shapinglight]

He's not one of the literary world's great stylists, true. You can't beat him for length, though.

[whichclothes.livejournal.com]

My husband had just said, "I bet Renly's gonna die," when that black spectre-thing entered the tent. Poor Renly.

[shapinglight]

Yeah, poor Renly. What a waste. :(

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

Bit of Harrenhall history - the day it was completed was the day the Targaryens arrived in the 7 kingdoms with their dragons and destroyed Harrenhal. It's been rebuilt a few times, but it's never been a happy home. Harranhal always has ghosts.

[shapinglight]

I think I vaguely remember that bit from Book 1, which I have read. I think it's from when Robb and his army are riding by, but I'm not sure.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

Probably a story told by old Nan.

So - now that they have Tywin in Harrenhal - how will they manage the "give me a name" bit - since the obvious name would be his.

It's interesting - the entire plot lines that are being dropped. No "green dreams", no children of the forest, no stories about the tournament when Eddard's sister was crowned with blue roses....

[shapinglight]

So - now that they have Tywin in Harrenhal - how will they manage the "give me a name" bit - since the obvious name would be his.

Uh, I don't understand any of this.

I think the Children of the Forest did get mentioned in the ep, though. Didn't Sam mention them?

:loves Sam a lot:

[makd.livejournal.com]

I haven't read any of the books and am spoier-free - so, my guess on The Lady in the Mask....Could it be Jorah's enslaved wife?

[shapinglight]

I don't think so. I think Jorah's wife is dead, isn't she?

Not sure, though. I've only read Book 1.

[lyr]

Yeah, I knew Renly was for the chop this week, but it was still sad to see him go. That Melisandre's a menace. It did get us to the Cat and Brienne part, though, which I've always liked, and I thought they played the scene of Brienne swearing herself to Cat really well. It was just as touching and human as I imagined it.

I see most of your outstanding questions have been answered by other folks already, so I will just address Nymeria's whereabouts. So, you remember how Arya made her run off into the woods? Well, from time to time in the book by this point, there'd be passing comments about a dangerous wolf pack following a huge grey wolf around the countryside. So, just assume that she's out there, and we'll hear more about it later.

[shapinglight]

It did get us to the Cat and Brienne part, though, which I've always liked, and I thought they played the scene of Brienne swearing herself to Cat really well. It was just as touching and human as I imagined it.

I agree. It was very well done.

Thanks for the info about Nymeria. I thought it was very unlikely that we'd seen the last of her.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Osha found a comb! I was wondering when that would happen. And damnit, the Greyjoys are going to mess everything up, aren't they?

Rienne rocks. That whole scene with her and Catelyn, brilliant. Really looking forward to seeing what these two get up to. Everyone's building their own army and hiring their own bodyguards now...

[shapinglight]

Osha found a comb! I was wondering when that would happen

Maybe she borrowed it off Bran. His hair is always very tidy.

And damnit, the Greyjoys are going to mess everything up, aren't they?

Yeah, they are. I hope we don't have to see too much of the raping part of the raping and rieving. :(

Everyone's building their own army and hiring their own bodyguards now...

Yes, Renly's death has made things more messy, not less.