Okay, so I get the Loki thing at last...

[shapinglight]

Last night, I watched the Thor movie for the first time - only two years behind everyone else - and yes, I totally get the Loki mania at last.

Weird, because....

(Behind cut confessions of a sad old comics fangirl, with spoilers for the Thor movie, and no I haven't seen Avengers yet, so no spoilers please).



....Loki in the comics doesn't have a thing to recommend him.

This is not surprising, I suppose, as he's been around since the 60s, and way back then, villains in comics weren't (relatively) complicated characters who just wanted their stepdads to love them (to start with anyway), but just plain mwah-hah-hah! bad.

Not that you couldn't theoretically feel sorry for Loki in the comics, being the odd one out in Asgard - a skinny intellectual, like Movie!Loki, if with less spectacular cheekbones -surrounded by crashing bores who think being bigger and stronger than everyone else is all that matters. Not to mention, Big Daddy Odin in the comics is a right old git. If he's not suffering from one of his odd attacks of narcolepsy, a.k.a. the Odinsleep (as seen in the movie), which usually occurred when it was necessary for Thor to do something especially dangerous without daddy around to rescue him, or for Loki to make one of his periodic (and always unsuccessful) attempts to make himself king of Asgard, Odin was usually oppressing one or other of his children.

In early issues of the comic, when Odin first finds out about Thor's love for Jane Foster (nurse to his human alter-ego Dr Donald Blake, and very much in the adoring-nurse-hanging-on-the-doctor's- every-word Dr Kildare mode) he's so cross he banishes Thor from Asgard until he gives her up (I think, or maybe he took Thor's power away - it's a long time since I read this stuff), and tells Thor he'll never ever, agree to him having a relationship with a mortal. In fact, it's a bit like a Bollywood movie. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other occasions on which Odin was mean to Thor too. It's a wonder that Comics!Thor doesn't need therapy.

But anyway, yes. Loki is just a villain. He has no redeeming qualities at all. Movie!Loki is so much better. More fun, too.

That said, I think the film was extremely silly and rather mediocre. I liked Loki, Odin (Anthony Hopkins is always good), and Idris Elba as Heimdall, but the other Asgardian characters bored me. In fact, I preferred Thor's human sidekicks, Jane (not a nurse, but still making gooey eyes at Thor), Mr Skarsgard Snr and the kooky girl. As for Thor himself, basically, you could have swapped him for a big plank of wood and no one would have noticed the difference.

I can, though, see the Thor/Loki slash potential (even though my slash goggles don't work that well these days). You can definitely read it (if you want) as Loki feeling unrequited love for Thor and doing what he does not just to impress Odin and make him love him, but also because of his very conflicting feelings about his stepbrother - he hates him/he loves him etc, etc. I also get the Spike/Loki parallels (as jokingly mentioned by Joss at SDCC, though I think he was referring more to both characters' rabid female fanbase - see, Spike fans can take a joke :fume, fume:), though that makes Thor a sort of combination of Buffy and Angel, which is weird, and anyway, BtVS is just a much better piece of work altogether.

Not that this movie is anything to do with Joss, of course. But - from what I hear about Loki in the Avengers, certain aspects of the character have been set up pretty well in Thor.

Speaking of silly movies, I watched Cowboys vs Aliens at the weekend. That was, if anything, even sillier than Thor, again featuring actors (Harrison Ford and Daniel Craig), who were way too good for the material, though thankfully, there wasn't a plank-of-wood as the hero.

Fun, though.

ETA: On reflection, I think Thor is less of a plank of wood, more of an Andrex puppy.

Comments

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Haven't seen Avenger's either. But I thought "Thor" was fun for frivolous entertainment. About as deep as a puddle, but enjoyable.

Then again, I was somewhat entertained by the Captain America movie.

The only one that bored me to tears was Ironman II. (Liked the original, though).

[shapinglight]

I haven't seen Captain America or Iron Man II. I did quite like the original, but not enough to want to watch it again.

I can see me fast-forwarding through this again, just to see the Loki bits. ;)

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

Aw, I loved good old Plank-of-wood Thor. "This drink pleases me! Bring me another!" *smash*
HEE.
Anyway, I'd be all over Chris Hemsworth like a bouncy castle.

Ahem.

But yes, isn't Loki darling? They do hurt the pretty nicely. DO see Avengers. *rabid fangirling*

My favorite character in "Thor" was the grad student. I forget her name. But her complaining about losing her iPod "I just put a bunch of songs on there" - is the only scene that makes the movie pass Bechtel. Sad but true.

Bit of a waste of Natalie Portman as Love Interest Girl. She needed more of an arc/character.

[kikimay]

You mean Darcy: she loses the iPod and I loved her very much!
Also, so much love for Thor! He's like an happy puppy!

[shapinglight]

Aw, I loved good old Plank-of-wood Thor. "This drink pleases me! Bring me another!" *smash*
HEE.
Anyway, I'd be all over Chris Hemsworth like a bouncy castle.But yes, isn't Loki darling? They do hurt the pretty nicely. DO see Avengers. *rabid fangirling*

I'll have to wait until it's out on DVD, I suppose. I don't think it's in cinemas any more.

I liked the grad student too. It's mostly because of her that the trio of Jane/Dr Whatever His Name Was/Kooky Grad Student works so well. I love that she tasered Thor.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

"They do hurt the pretty nicely."

Oh don't they just. :D

[kikimay]

I wrote so much about Loki and my approch to the character, that I actually can tell you to read my post to understand my point of view. XD
I love Loki very much, but I believe that he's so much different from Spike, for example, (the villain in the road for redemption) I believe that the psycological situation of Loki is different and, as you say, Thor doesn't need therapy just because Odin was a shitty father. It's really all about Loki's psyche + his discover in the Thor movie, and I think it's interesting knowing more about him.
I also read some of the old comics about Thor and Loki and I agree with what you said (the old comics are so innocent and simple)
I disagree in one point: I was very much interested for the story of Loki, Thor and Odin and I found the romance with Jane boring and kinda lame.

[shapinglight]

I wrote so much about Loki and my approch to the character, that I actually can tell you to read my post to understand my point of view. XD

I'll have a look, provided it's not spoilery for the Avengers.

I agree that Spike and Loki are very different. I think even Joss knows that really.

I disagree in one point: I was very much interested for the story of Loki, Thor and Odin and I found the romance with Jane boring and kinda lame.

I don't disagree. I couldn't stand Jane when I was a kid and first read those stories. I meant that I liked Jane and her little gang in the film.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you sound like me after having watched it. *g*

As I've said to you before Loki's character comes across as more 'fun' in the Avengers, and his cossy's a lot better too. :D

[shapinglight]

I liked Loki in this a lot. Not sure I'll like him so much when he's going around making Jossian quips and threatening to end the world. We'll see.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I have to say I find it pretty hilarious that after 20 years as a "character actor" (ie playing second nazi from the right) in Hollywood, Stellan Skarsgård is now getting some big roles... only to still be known as "That guy from True Blood's dad". :D

I rather liked Thor. Yeah, it's silly, and they should have kept BRIAN BLESSED as Odin (Anthony Hopkins hardly needs special effects to look tired), but as such things go, it was fun. I thought Hemsworth's Thor works precisely because he's just a big dumb lout; Thor demands to be taken seriously, while Hemsworth knows he's ridiculous, but he plays him straight anyway... or something. Just like I thought Branagh really brought some things from Shakespeare here - namely, knowing how to treat larger-than-life characters who mostly stand around blustering while the minor characters do snarky asides. There's a certain balance of seriousness and silliness that I think it got right more often than not. Not a great movie by a long shot, but fun.

[shapinglight]

only to still be known as "That guy from True Blood's dad". :D

Heh! I was in fact going to refer to him as 'Alexander Skarsgard's dad' at first. Then I thought that was surely a bit disrespectful, given that Skarsgard snr has been in lots more stuff.

I didn't know Brian Blessed was originally supposed to play Odin. Hmm, I don't know if that would have worked. He's too loud and shouty, whereas Comics!Odin may be a ghastly old despot but he's quite clever too. Mind you, he also has a hugely inflated sense of his own importance, which Anthony Hopkins doesn't have. Swings/roundabouts.

I agree that Hemsworth's Thor works fine, even if he is rather wooden. He does have a certain puppyish innocent quality that works pretty well, especially when he's playing against Hiddleston's Loki.

Now I want to write a silly ficlet in which Loki is throwing doggy treats for Thor.

There's a certain balance of seriousness and silliness that I think it got right more often than not. Not a great movie by a long shot, but fun.

Yes, I think I agree with that assessment, though I found the Warriors Three and Sif horribly dull. But then I do in the comics so :shrug:

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I thought Hemsworth's Thor works precisely because he's just a big dumb lout; Thor demands to be taken seriously, while Hemsworth knows he's ridiculous, but he plays him straight anyway...

Yes! This was exactly my thought when watching Thor, and it's a choice that works.

[next_to_normal]

Hahaha, having never read any of the comics, The Avengers converted me into a total fangirl. I went back and watched the Iron Man/Thor/Captain America movies and find them all adorable. Totally silly, sure, but you can tell the actors are just having a hell of a time with these roles, and that's fun to watch. (Also, not a single one of those actors is tough on the eyes, lol.)

Anyway, yeah, maybe there's a difference between movie!Loki and comic!Loki, though I feel like the Loki mania is more Tom Hiddleston mania than anything else. Which is fair, because Tom Hiddleston is adorable and hilarious. (And is probably another Spike parallel - Spike would be far less interesting and sympathetic without James Marsters' charisma, IMO.)

Heh, Thor is totally Angel, though, the big lug.

[shapinglight]

I haven't seen Captain America or Iron Man II. Maybe I'll get around to it one day. My resistance in part stems from the fact that I have read so many of the comics and I never much liked the Avengers. The X-Men were always my super-hero team of choice.

because Tom Hiddleston is adorable and hilarious. (And is probably another Spike parallel - Spike would be far less interesting and sympathetic without James Marsters' charisma, IMO.)

All this is true. I am glad, though, that the first time I saw him act was in the BBC's current run of Shakespearean history plays. He's very good as Prince Hal. Looking forward to seeing him as Henry V this weekend.

Another Spike parallell: we few, we happy few, we band of....

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Loki, in recent years in the comics, has become more of a well-rounded character. "Loki: Blood Brothers" is really one of the best. Loki, in that comic, gets everything he ever wanted, but it's not what he really wants. When he speaks of Thor near the finale of the book, Loki says, "Only you have ever looked at me with affection in place of condescension. Why, then, am I killing you and not the others? …Because you stopped." OMG, my feelings! Also, I love kid!Loki in "Journey into Mystery" because he is the King of Sassgard. XD

I adore Hiddleston's version of Loki as well. He gives Loki more of the broken/lost child personality in Thor. His "I'm just another stolen relic" speech makes me cry every time I hear it. He really makes you feel Loki's pain in a way that the old comic book Loki just didn't. It could be because his costume is much less laughable. XD Branagh probably made the right decision keeping out/editing down some of the scenes with Loki that made him look EVEN MORE SYMPATHETIC because I don't know how they would have pulled it off with them still in there. Hiddleston and Marsters should never be allowed to cry onscreen; my heart can't take it.

[shapinglight]

Loki, in recent years in the comics, has become more of a well-rounded character. "Loki: Blood Brothers" is really one of the best.

Is this pre-or post the Thor movie, because if post, it wouldn't be the first time that a movie portrayal has had an effect on a comics character. Also, of course, more 'rounded' villains are the norm these days. Shades of grey (no, not that sort!) are expected.

Branagh probably made the right decision keeping out/editing down some of the scenes with Loki that made him look EVEN MORE SYMPATHETIC

Probably. Are these scenes available to view anywhere?

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Oh, goody! I wasn't that thrilled with "Thor" though I liked the performances, especially the Kat Dennings character (Darcy?). It just had all that Big Important Mythos hanging all over it, which I prefer in smaller doses. (It's actually when that starts happening in Cap'n A that I get bored, so I guess I'm consistent.)

I really, really want you to get to "Captain America", which I thought was a better film, touching even, although it devolves into silly battles with the big bad, as those things do. Then, in "The Avengers", they pretty much focus entirely on what I want, the character moments.

I was never much of a Marvel girl, until they started up with the thinly veiled mutants rights=gay rights stuff. So I'm not really up on their version of Loki, though other versions of him throughout literature always interest me. I do see Spike as a spiritual cousin of Loki the Trickster, though I'm not really seeing the Spike in this Loki, if that makes any sense. (He's just as much Tony Stark, IMO.)

Interesting point about Thor being a mash-up of Angel and Buffy: Buffy's charm, socialbility, and puppyishness combined with Angel's cluelessness and confounding confidence in his "rightness". I kinda like the big lug, even though Asgard looks like a hellish frat-boy-land to me.

[kikimay]

I'm sorry if I reply to the other comments. It's interesting read other opinions, especially since I'm involved in Thor's fandom and it's also interesting the comparison with the Buffyverse.
I really believe that Loki is very much different from Spike. They both share a huge burden of unrequired love and angsty feels, but Spike's passionate about everything, while Loki is much more a brainy one, all detached and cold. The same with Thor and Angel: they also are different; Thor is like sunshine, really, all about bear hugs, drinking bear and fighting. He has this rightness inside, but the god of thunder. He's pretty much a force of nature, a god of war in norse mythology, and, like a thunder, he doesn't really care about grey, he just see black and white and strikes with all his power. But, in the end, he's generous and *really* righteous. (I think that a better comparison would be between Thor and Buffy, since both are "good")

[shapinglight]

especially the Kat Dennings character (Darcy?).

I didn't catch her name when I was watching, but yes, liked her very much.

I might watch Captain America one day, but the character never appealed to me in the comics so I'm not really in a hurry to get to it.

Marvel comics stories were the only super hero stories available when I was growing up. Marvel's UK subsidiary produced some of the oldest stories in black and white reprints. They reprinted Thor, Iron Man, the Avengers, the X-Men and Doctor Strange. I only became a big X-Men fan when Claremont took over, and it's still a habit I can't quite shake, even though they keep doing things I don't like with my favourite character. But what's new?

Loki in myth is a lot more interesting than Comics!Loki. As you say, he's not necessarily a villain (he and Thor have lots of adventures together), but more of a trickster.

Interesting point about Thor being a mash-up of Angel and Buffy: Buffy's charm, socialbility, and puppyishness combined with Angel's cluelessness and confounding confidence in his "rightness". I kinda like the big lug, even though Asgard looks like a hellish frat-boy-land to me.

Agree with you about Asgard. It looked sooo dull! I can't imagine why Loki wanted to be king of it. About the Buffy/Angel similarities, I don't think I explained myself very well. I do think Thor has Angel-like qualities, but I was still looking at the movie partially through slash goggles, so Thor was a combination of someone with whom Loki was unrequitedly in love (Buffy) and someone he wanted to be liked by and to imprss (Angel/Angelus).

[ex_peasant441]

Oddly enough I too watched Thor for the first time just a couple of weeks ago. It struck me as a complete load of tosh. And I don't understand the Loki love at all, though he was slightly more interesting than the plank. I thought Bifrost was cool, but that was about the only good thing.

Cowboys and Aliens I did enjoy though. It was such a silly idea but I also thought was a nice cowboy movie in the old traditional mould.

[shapinglight]

And I don't understand the Loki love at all

Strangely, this doesn't surprise me.

[kseenaa.livejournal.com]

Me and my best friend watched Thor. We who are history nerds and love Norse mythology.... To say we laughed our fucking asses off would be an understatement! X-D I haven't read the comics, but the movie sure took Norse mythology and pretty much raped it in the ass... in a humors way at least. X-D *is still quite amused by how idiotic it all is, even if entertaining*

[shapinglight]

It is a complete travesty of actual Norse myths/legends, I agree. The version in the film is lifted directly from the comics (except that in the comics Heimdall is not a black guy, and Hogun is not Asiatic - that casting got the comics fans' knickers in a twist, so I understand).

It might interest you to know that the comic did once do a retelling the ring story, but it was based on Wagner's operas, not on the original Volsunga Saga.

[avidrosette.livejournal.com]

Interesting to hear how Loki and the various other characters were portrayed in the comics. It must be a different experience coming into the rather thin movie with all that background.

I have to admit I read fanfic first, before seeing the movies, and the characters are written so deeply (at least by writers like astolat), that it adds to what you see onscreen. Tom Hiddleston's comments in interviews about the character also deepen my perception of it. Funny how all the meta becomes part of the movie experience.

I wonder if when Joss compared Loki to Spike he didn't have in mind that love of mischief for its own sake that they both seem to share. Also, they're both super-powered beings with layered characters and a vulnerable core. BAMFs who really want to be loved. And who are fixated on the primary object of their love. Eh, who knows. I certainly felt a light bulb come on when I heard that Joss had said that, but I don't know if it holds up to strict analysis. Maybe it was more of an emotional connection between the two that he felt as a writer - that the two played similar structural roles in their stories, and perhaps even stole the show on the sly.

Anyway, fun that you're feeling the Loki love. :-)

[shapinglight]

Interesting to hear how Loki and the various other characters were portrayed in the comics. It must be a different experience coming into the rather thin movie with all that background.

Yes, I'm not sure whether it's a help, or a hindrance, but I think on the whole it's a help. If I knew nothing about the comics, and was only aware of the original myths and legends, I doubt I would even have got through the movie, since it's such a travesty of them.

I do think that Joss was referring for the most part to the show-stealing, but with a little on the side about the rabid female fanbase. I doubt that we should expect to see Loki redeemed any time soon. ;)

[ringthebells]

That said, I think the film was extremely silly and rather mediocre.

I agree, but it is a good idea to watch it before watching Avengers, because there is some continuity. Avengers just makes more sense if you've seen Thor first.

Also, apart from the role of Loki, Thor is exactly the same movie as Pixar's Cars, which was better. I say this with the authority of someone who has watched Cars approximately a bazillion times.

[shapinglight]

Also, apart from the role of Loki, Thor is exactly the same movie as Pixar's Cars, which was better. I say this with the authority of someone who has watched Cars approximately a bazillion times.

Hee!