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Oct. 29th, 2010 06:10 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shapinglightIt's been pretty quiet in my corner of LJ lately - something I've not done anything to make any better by barely posting except for the occasional fic-writing whinge. I plead RL, plus a dose of Jossverse fandom flu' brought on by the Buffy comics.
Anyway, I thought I would try to get myself back into the habit of making an occasional open post, so here are my random opinions on Jossverse product in general.
Not deep, and I've tried not to get personal, except for once. Also, should anyone feel inclined to leave a comment, I'd appreciate no character/'ship bashing.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer: still one of my favourite TV shows, though it's now a very long while since I watched an actual episode. It's really time I did a re-watch (if only to put the whole comics debacle in perspective), but the operative word, sadly, is time, which I just don't seem to have. Still a great show IMO, and Buffy will probably always be Joss's signature character no matter what else he does. Its early seasons show off Joss's strengths as a writer - the wonderful characters, the witty dialogue, the ability to mix genres (drama, soap opera, horror, comedy) with ridiculous ease. The later seasons (which I personally like better) also showcase Joss's willingness to be experimental, not to stick with a tried and tested formula and run it into the ground, but to allow his characters to develop and grow, and also to fuck up monumentally.
However, the later seasons also show a tendency on Joss's part to go for the Big Dramatic Moment at the expense of his characters and then be left scrambling to make up the damage afterwards. I'm referring mainly, of course, to the death of Tara and to the attempted rape in Seeing Red. Boy, did that episode cause a lot of damage, and yet somehow, in a typically Jossian paradox, it still remains a very good episode.
The resultant fall-out from both plots was horrendous, as those who were around at the time will attest, and in the case of Spike, the fandom has been pretty divided ever since. I'm not going to go into details, but yeah, have to say it still hurts to go places in the fandom and see people saying how they can't stand 'that rapist' and how Spuffy in season 7 disgusts them etc and to have to tie yourself in moral knots over the issue just because Joss needed his consciousness raised. Ah well, I suppose if Joss hadn't done some of these controversial things (though, why, oh why, do so many of them have to revolve around Spike?) we would probably have said, "Well, that was nice," packed our bags and wandered off to another fandom years ago.
Angel: I make no bones of loving this show to bits. Angel, who bored me rigid in BtVS, except when he was evil, suddenly became an interesting character, surrounded by other even more interesting characters. Season 3 is my favourite season (I adore Daddy Angel), but I like all of them, except for chunks of 4, Fred's death, and parts of Spike's arc in season 5, which I don't dislike so much as just find irritating. It's odd. This show, like BtVS, also features a lot of Big Dramatic Moments, but I think that with one notable exception, they're handled better than in the parent show. Of course, Joss was more hands off with this show than he was with BtVS (he's openly said that he doesn't really understand Angel), which was possibly a good thing. And yeah, it's not a particularly female- friendly show either, but even though the female characters have a horrible habit of dying horribly, at least they're well-realised(for the most part) and not just cyphers. And at least there's Lilah.
The notable exception I mentioned above, btw, is what happens to Cordelia in season 4, which I hate, and which I think points to a certain vindictive streak in Joss (this is me getting personal that one time), which leads him to take out his dislike of an actor on the character playing them. I'll always be grateful to SMG for being too busy to appear in AtS's 100th episode. If she hadn't been, Cordelia would have probably stayed in a coma forever.
Firefly: Okay, I admit, I really do not like this show. I've never been able to get through all the episodes, and I've never seen Serenity. First reaction on seeing my first ever episode of it, Why the hell should I care what the losers in the American Civil War did in outer space?
I appreciate that's pretty dismissive, and I do intend to watch Serenity some time, as I hear the silly Western stuff is considerably dialled down, but I'm not in a great hurry, and I'm pretty sure that I'll never be more than incredibly unimpressed by Joss's world building skills.
Dr Horrible: Again, I don't get what's so great about this. To me, it looks like what it is - a silly story with silly songs told by a bunch of comic book nerds. Not impressed.
Dollhouse: I haven't seen season 2 of this show yet, though I've stumbled across 3 very major spoilers by accident that have pretty much ruined all the Big Dramatic Moments. However, I did enjoy season 1 very much. Okay, so there were a couple of really duff episodes, but even those had their flashes of Whedon brilliance, and some eps were outstanding. But then there was Epitaph One. :sigh: Also, the concept is well dodgy - enough that I was really taken aback when I realised what it was about. For some reason, it never occurred to me that it was a direction Joss would go in. I need to watch season 2 and then make a final judgement. It's either a flawed masterpiece that was killed off before its time, or exploitative sub-porn tack disguising itself as something deep. Or possibly both.
Comics work
Fray: I've said before that it was reading this comic that years ago made me realise that the things that interested Joss about the Buffyverse and the things that interested me were very different, and Fray's reappearance in the Buffy comic didn't change my opinion. I found the characters tedious, the setting the first example I'd come across then of Joss's crapness as a world builder (and remember, this was back when I loved everything of Joss's that I'd then seen). I just wish he wasn't now twisting a far superior product, BtVS, to fit in with the much inferior Fray.
Astonishing X-Men: I haven't read all of Joss's run on this comic. Can only say that it's pretty obvious how much he loves Kitty Pryde (the template for so many of his female characters), and equally obvious that he's not too keen on Wolverine. In fact, as with so many 'cool' male characters, Joss seems to have an uncontrollable urge to make Wolverine look stupid. This tearing down works fine sometimes - dorky Angel, William the bloody awful poet - not so well when it's someone else's character. Jossian dialogue coming out of Wolverine's mouth is not a good fit.
Buffy season 8: I probably shouldn't say anything about this series. I've enjoyed bits of it, but I suspect when it's over the thing I'll look back on most fondly is probably Xander's relationship with Dracula. Also, I think that Angel-as-Twilight looks like another example of Joss having a cool idea for a Big Dramatic Moment without thinking through the consequences for the character. But we'll see, I suppose.
So that's it. Joss has produced some of my favourite TV ever but he's also at times massively disappointed me. I expect it's the same for most people.
Discuss. Or not.
Anyway, I thought I would try to get myself back into the habit of making an occasional open post, so here are my random opinions on Jossverse product in general.
Not deep, and I've tried not to get personal, except for once. Also, should anyone feel inclined to leave a comment, I'd appreciate no character/'ship bashing.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer: still one of my favourite TV shows, though it's now a very long while since I watched an actual episode. It's really time I did a re-watch (if only to put the whole comics debacle in perspective), but the operative word, sadly, is time, which I just don't seem to have. Still a great show IMO, and Buffy will probably always be Joss's signature character no matter what else he does. Its early seasons show off Joss's strengths as a writer - the wonderful characters, the witty dialogue, the ability to mix genres (drama, soap opera, horror, comedy) with ridiculous ease. The later seasons (which I personally like better) also showcase Joss's willingness to be experimental, not to stick with a tried and tested formula and run it into the ground, but to allow his characters to develop and grow, and also to fuck up monumentally.
However, the later seasons also show a tendency on Joss's part to go for the Big Dramatic Moment at the expense of his characters and then be left scrambling to make up the damage afterwards. I'm referring mainly, of course, to the death of Tara and to the attempted rape in Seeing Red. Boy, did that episode cause a lot of damage, and yet somehow, in a typically Jossian paradox, it still remains a very good episode.
The resultant fall-out from both plots was horrendous, as those who were around at the time will attest, and in the case of Spike, the fandom has been pretty divided ever since. I'm not going to go into details, but yeah, have to say it still hurts to go places in the fandom and see people saying how they can't stand 'that rapist' and how Spuffy in season 7 disgusts them etc and to have to tie yourself in moral knots over the issue just because Joss needed his consciousness raised. Ah well, I suppose if Joss hadn't done some of these controversial things (though, why, oh why, do so many of them have to revolve around Spike?) we would probably have said, "Well, that was nice," packed our bags and wandered off to another fandom years ago.
Angel: I make no bones of loving this show to bits. Angel, who bored me rigid in BtVS, except when he was evil, suddenly became an interesting character, surrounded by other even more interesting characters. Season 3 is my favourite season (I adore Daddy Angel), but I like all of them, except for chunks of 4, Fred's death, and parts of Spike's arc in season 5, which I don't dislike so much as just find irritating. It's odd. This show, like BtVS, also features a lot of Big Dramatic Moments, but I think that with one notable exception, they're handled better than in the parent show. Of course, Joss was more hands off with this show than he was with BtVS (he's openly said that he doesn't really understand Angel), which was possibly a good thing. And yeah, it's not a particularly female- friendly show either, but even though the female characters have a horrible habit of dying horribly, at least they're well-realised(for the most part) and not just cyphers. And at least there's Lilah.
The notable exception I mentioned above, btw, is what happens to Cordelia in season 4, which I hate, and which I think points to a certain vindictive streak in Joss (this is me getting personal that one time), which leads him to take out his dislike of an actor on the character playing them. I'll always be grateful to SMG for being too busy to appear in AtS's 100th episode. If she hadn't been, Cordelia would have probably stayed in a coma forever.
Firefly: Okay, I admit, I really do not like this show. I've never been able to get through all the episodes, and I've never seen Serenity. First reaction on seeing my first ever episode of it, Why the hell should I care what the losers in the American Civil War did in outer space?
I appreciate that's pretty dismissive, and I do intend to watch Serenity some time, as I hear the silly Western stuff is considerably dialled down, but I'm not in a great hurry, and I'm pretty sure that I'll never be more than incredibly unimpressed by Joss's world building skills.
Dr Horrible: Again, I don't get what's so great about this. To me, it looks like what it is - a silly story with silly songs told by a bunch of comic book nerds. Not impressed.
Dollhouse: I haven't seen season 2 of this show yet, though I've stumbled across 3 very major spoilers by accident that have pretty much ruined all the Big Dramatic Moments. However, I did enjoy season 1 very much. Okay, so there were a couple of really duff episodes, but even those had their flashes of Whedon brilliance, and some eps were outstanding. But then there was Epitaph One. :sigh: Also, the concept is well dodgy - enough that I was really taken aback when I realised what it was about. For some reason, it never occurred to me that it was a direction Joss would go in. I need to watch season 2 and then make a final judgement. It's either a flawed masterpiece that was killed off before its time, or exploitative sub-porn tack disguising itself as something deep. Or possibly both.
Comics work
Fray: I've said before that it was reading this comic that years ago made me realise that the things that interested Joss about the Buffyverse and the things that interested me were very different, and Fray's reappearance in the Buffy comic didn't change my opinion. I found the characters tedious, the setting the first example I'd come across then of Joss's crapness as a world builder (and remember, this was back when I loved everything of Joss's that I'd then seen). I just wish he wasn't now twisting a far superior product, BtVS, to fit in with the much inferior Fray.
Astonishing X-Men: I haven't read all of Joss's run on this comic. Can only say that it's pretty obvious how much he loves Kitty Pryde (the template for so many of his female characters), and equally obvious that he's not too keen on Wolverine. In fact, as with so many 'cool' male characters, Joss seems to have an uncontrollable urge to make Wolverine look stupid. This tearing down works fine sometimes - dorky Angel, William the bloody awful poet - not so well when it's someone else's character. Jossian dialogue coming out of Wolverine's mouth is not a good fit.
Buffy season 8: I probably shouldn't say anything about this series. I've enjoyed bits of it, but I suspect when it's over the thing I'll look back on most fondly is probably Xander's relationship with Dracula. Also, I think that Angel-as-Twilight looks like another example of Joss having a cool idea for a Big Dramatic Moment without thinking through the consequences for the character. But we'll see, I suppose.
So that's it. Joss has produced some of my favourite TV ever but he's also at times massively disappointed me. I expect it's the same for most people.
Discuss. Or not.