More BtVS season 5, up to Into the Woods
Oct. 4th, 2012 03:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shapinglightSo recently, I started re-watching BtVS season 5 for the first time in ages. Got as far as FFL then had to stop with no idea when I'd get the chance to watch more.
Last night, I managed three more eps, ending with Into the Woods, and have some thoughts about that ep and the end of Buffy/Riley behind cut.
I know that many people think Riley's a complete douche for doing what he does to Buffy - thesleeping around getting suck jobs from vamps, the intimation that it's partly Buffy's fault for shutting him out, the ultimatum etc - and that Xander's pro-Riley speech at the end is completely wrong-headed and something Xander had no right to say.
And both things are douchey/overstepping boundaries, but the thing is, I think it's more complicated than just that both Riley and Xander were wrong. Riley is 100% wrong to put the blame on Buffy and to give her that ultimatum, especially given what she's going through at the time with her mum, but, having watched the episode again, I don't think he was entirely wrong in what he said, his timing just sucked. And Blucas managed to convince me that Riley knew how he was coming across, like he was blaming her, and regretted it like hell, but having been put on the spot by Buffy's Spike-assisted discovery, he had to fess up and admit what had sent him on that path.
I also think he was spot on when he said that what Buffy felt for him was nothing like what she felt for Angel - that she hadn't the same passion for him - and everything everyone else said, right down to poor innocent Dawn at the carousel - only reinforced his belief. And to me, I do see hints in Buffy's behaviour that if, say, the sexes were reversed, could be taken as evidence that Guy!Buffy wasn't really in love with his girlfriend but just wanted her around when it suited him/when things were good and there wasn't more important stuff to think about.
I mean, guys have been doing that in fiction for a long time.
But contrariwise, I actually don't think Buffy thought that. It's not just reversing the trope, or whatever. I think she did take Riley a bit for granted, but it certainly wasn't her that had introduced the notion that being 'dependable' was a bad thing. That was all in Riley's head. He was wrong to compare himself with Angel or to think that Buffy did. If anything, she was probably relieved and grateful that he was so different. Ironically, also, everyone who said that about Riley - being dependable -was right. Riley was dependable (up to now anyway), he was the good guy, and Xander was also right that in letting him leave Buffy was giving up her best shot so far for a stable relationship with a really good, kind person.
In that sense, Buffy's desperate chase after Riley's helicopter was both an acknowledgement of that fact, and not a capitulation but an acceptance of that truth.
On the other hand, if Riley couldn't accept that Buffy's feelings for him were qualitatively different than what she felt for Angel - quieter, more adult, in fact - couldn't accept it so much that he went looking for the kind of passion he wanted her to feel for him elsewhere, then Spike's selfishly motivated actions in taking Buffy to the vamp crack house were the best thing for everyone in the long run, even Buffy, who proved to be way more grown up than Riley in matters of the heart, IMO, and was willing to forgive and compromise, as her run after the helicopter shows. In other words, she was not wrong to run after Riley -it wasn't an admission of guilt- but it was a good thing she was too late.
YMMV, of course, and probably will.
As for what else goes on in these episodes, the Buffy/Joyce/Dawn stuff is all absolutely superb. My heart breaks for poor Buffy. Responsibilities were forced on her so young, yet up to now, she always knew that when the worst came to the worst, she still had a mother to look after her (it works the same in potential as in reality) and a home to go back to. Now, she has to be responsible for everyone, even her mother, and that home is just another burden (or will soon become so).
Last night, I managed three more eps, ending with Into the Woods, and have some thoughts about that ep and the end of Buffy/Riley behind cut.
I know that many people think Riley's a complete douche for doing what he does to Buffy - the
And both things are douchey/overstepping boundaries, but the thing is, I think it's more complicated than just that both Riley and Xander were wrong. Riley is 100% wrong to put the blame on Buffy and to give her that ultimatum, especially given what she's going through at the time with her mum, but, having watched the episode again, I don't think he was entirely wrong in what he said, his timing just sucked. And Blucas managed to convince me that Riley knew how he was coming across, like he was blaming her, and regretted it like hell, but having been put on the spot by Buffy's Spike-assisted discovery, he had to fess up and admit what had sent him on that path.
I also think he was spot on when he said that what Buffy felt for him was nothing like what she felt for Angel - that she hadn't the same passion for him - and everything everyone else said, right down to poor innocent Dawn at the carousel - only reinforced his belief. And to me, I do see hints in Buffy's behaviour that if, say, the sexes were reversed, could be taken as evidence that Guy!Buffy wasn't really in love with his girlfriend but just wanted her around when it suited him/when things were good and there wasn't more important stuff to think about.
I mean, guys have been doing that in fiction for a long time.
But contrariwise, I actually don't think Buffy thought that. It's not just reversing the trope, or whatever. I think she did take Riley a bit for granted, but it certainly wasn't her that had introduced the notion that being 'dependable' was a bad thing. That was all in Riley's head. He was wrong to compare himself with Angel or to think that Buffy did. If anything, she was probably relieved and grateful that he was so different. Ironically, also, everyone who said that about Riley - being dependable -was right. Riley was dependable (up to now anyway), he was the good guy, and Xander was also right that in letting him leave Buffy was giving up her best shot so far for a stable relationship with a really good, kind person.
In that sense, Buffy's desperate chase after Riley's helicopter was both an acknowledgement of that fact, and not a capitulation but an acceptance of that truth.
On the other hand, if Riley couldn't accept that Buffy's feelings for him were qualitatively different than what she felt for Angel - quieter, more adult, in fact - couldn't accept it so much that he went looking for the kind of passion he wanted her to feel for him elsewhere, then Spike's selfishly motivated actions in taking Buffy to the vamp crack house were the best thing for everyone in the long run, even Buffy, who proved to be way more grown up than Riley in matters of the heart, IMO, and was willing to forgive and compromise, as her run after the helicopter shows. In other words, she was not wrong to run after Riley -it wasn't an admission of guilt- but it was a good thing she was too late.
YMMV, of course, and probably will.
As for what else goes on in these episodes, the Buffy/Joyce/Dawn stuff is all absolutely superb. My heart breaks for poor Buffy. Responsibilities were forced on her so young, yet up to now, she always knew that when the worst came to the worst, she still had a mother to look after her (it works the same in potential as in reality) and a home to go back to. Now, she has to be responsible for everyone, even her mother, and that home is just another burden (or will soon become so).