Stupid Buffy comics poll

[shapinglight]

Here's that stupid comics poll I mentioned, brought on by the fact that the latest issue of Angel and Faith (no 16) was quite good (well, better than other recent efforts, like the last arc of A&F, the last two arcs of the Buffy comic, and all of the Spike mini so far) and it made me foolishly optimistic for all of five seconds that something good might come of this debacle after all.

I also thought I remembered Scott Allie saying something in one of his Slayalive Q&As about how things would be very different at the end of season 9 and some people would be pissed off by it (which, being me, I took to mean the Spuffy 'shippers would be pissed off by it). However, I can't find that reference so maybe I imagined it. All I can find is him saying 'the landscape' would be very different, which could mean anything. And after all, it's California. Maybe he just meant there would be an earthquake?

But anyway, I decided to try and think of various things that would piss people off to include in this poll. I'm sure there are lots more (for instance, some that aren't to do with Buffy's love life at all), but my imagination fails me.

Over to you.

Poll #12223 End of Buffy Season 9

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 25

View Respondents

What will happen to piss people off at the end of Buffy season 9?

View Answers

Spike will ask Buffy to marry him. She'll say yes.
5 (20.0%)

Angel will ask Buffy to marry him. She'll say yes
7 (28.0%)

Angel will ask Spike to marry him. He'll say yes.
4 (16.0%)

Buffy will become a nun
5 (20.0%)

Buffy will wake up and it will all have been a dream
13 (52.0%)

Answer in comments
3 (12.0%)

For the record, I don't think any of the above likely, especially 1, as I think, as rahirah does, that to Joss, Allie and co, Spuffy has been dead in the water since Seeing Red and they only don't pony up and say so because they want the Spuffies' money.

Comments

[beer_good_foamy]

From what I can tell, Season 9 so far is largely a more down-to-earth retread of the same themes as in Season 8, so I'm guessing that Buffy and Angel will collectively decide to kill a bunch of Slayers and stop the return of magic. Or something like that.

[shapinglight]

I think you're nearly right, though probably 'kill a bunch of Slayers' could be exchanged for 'bring back Giles from the dead'.

[beer_good_foamy]

Well, if there's a group of Slayers conveniently trying to prevent bringing Giles back because they're under the foolish impression that a dead Slayer is as worthy of resurrection as Giles is, one doesn't have to rule out the other...

[shapinglight]

Very true. Either way, we'll know that they will be Wrong and Angel will be Right.

[slaymesoftly]

I should probably change my answer to Buffy will wake up, because I think that one is entirely possible. It gets them out of the whole mess they made of Season Eight, and anything else they throw at us this season.

I don't see them actually pairing Buffy permanently with anyone because, as you say, keeping everyone guessing and hoping keeps the money flowing in. They'll keep Angel in her life in some way for the drama value (although poor Faith...) even if he doesn't make many appearances in her comic; and they won't get rid of Spike because he and Buffy are fun together and even people who don't like them as a couple can enjoy the banter and snark.

I don't object to seeing Spike with someone else nearly as much as I object to Buffy/Angel, so I'd just as soon see him get his own comic. If they don't want to do it, maybe Joss would give him back to IDW. ;)

[shapinglight]

It gets them out of the whole mess they made of Season Eight, and anything else they throw at us this season.

I think they're getting out of that by pretending it never happened. ;)

I don't see them pairing Buffy permanently off with anyone either, if only because that would mean the end of the story, but also because I don't think Joss's brain works that way.

As for Spike, my qualms about him moving on are partially because I like him with Buffy, but also because if he's not with her, I just think he becomes an irrelevant secondary character. He doesn't have leading character status the way Angel does, and from past evidence, none of these comic book writers can find a way to make him convincingly take that step up. Everything they've flung at him so far just looks like desperation to me.

[slaymesoftly]

I actually enjoyed many of the Spike comics at IDW, and I like where his own comic seemed to be going before they yanked him away. I just enjoy the character, and as long as he isn't behaving in very non-Spike fashion (which he occasionally did at IDW, I'll admit), I'm willing to follow his story. Of course, I'd rather see him with Buffy, but as long as he isn't, I'll always have something to write about. LOL

[shapinglight]

I actually enjoyed many of the Spike comics at IDW,

I did too, but I do think it helped that other characters from the show were included in his stories. Either Lorne or Illyria, or Drusilla and Willow in the last one. At Dark Horse they don't seem to want to spare him anyone. It just makes me feel like they think he's not good enough to have another character wasted on him. :(

[rebcake]

I said "dream", but then that wouldn't piss me off very much. I still say Buffy's having a psychotic episode a la Normal Again, and all of this comics malarkey is a figment of her delusion. Why else would there be a swimming pool in her courtyard? ;-)

I'm pretty much in alignment with SMS on the shipping issues. I really don't want Buffy to end up with Angel, but I'm okay with Spike moving on to greener pastures. I think he could/would be a leading man in his own comic, and just as much a part of the fight as any of the other principal players. In fact, at Comic-Con Allie made a point of mentioning that one of the Spike trades was the only Buffyverse comic to make the best-seller list.

I could forgive Buffy her Twilight fantasy if it were a fantasy. But I don't want Angel paired with anyone, ever. Oh! That's it! If Angel and Faith end up romantically engaged, I'll be plenty pissied off!

[shapinglight]

Why else would there be a swimming pool in her courtyard? ;-)

:) Not to mention why does the rest of your wonderful city look nothing like it's supposed to look. Jeanty made the Coit Tower area look ugly, ffs!

In fact, at Comic-Con Allie made a point of mentioning that one of the Spike trades was the only Buffyverse comic to make the best-seller list.

That's nice to know. I think one thing that really bothers me is that no one at Dark Horse seems able to create OCs I want to see Spike with (the bugs get on my nerves) and they also don't want to 'waste' a 'verse character on him, whereas I think a Spike book, to fly, as it were, will need a stiffening of another show character. Illyria would work for me, but I doubt Joss will feel the same (in as much as he cares at all any more).

[indestructiblewhale]

one of the Spike trades was the only Buffyverse comic to make the best-seller list.

I'm fairly certain that's not true. Maybe only pertaining to the IDW run. Even the lowly Twilight TPB made the bestseller list as Simon was quick to point out.

[yourlibrarian]

I answered all of the above since I figure they will have threesome marriage; after which it all goes terribly wrong Buffy will leave the vampires to their quarreling and become a nun; and then wake up to find it was a dream.

[shapinglight]

ROFL.

Actually, that sounds like a really fun story.

[lynnenne]

I chose #3 because, let's face it, it would be HILARIOUS.

[shapinglight]

It would. I wouldn't trust anyone at Dark Horse to write it, though. ;)

[rahirah]

I'm having a hard time trying to come up with something that would make me angrier than Buffy boinking Angel on a pile of dead Slayers and totally blowing Spike off. I picked Angel asking Buffy to marry him, although I really don't think that will happen, the thing that would make me angry at this point is for Angel to bring Giles back and have it all work out and Buffy falls into Angel's arms weeping tears of happy forgiveness. Optionally with Spike nobly admitting Angel's the better manpire. BARF BARF BARFITY BARF.

(This means I'm torn, because I would like Giles back, but I don't want Angel to get any credit for it.)

Everything being a dream would actually be a relief, so I'm sure that won't happen.

[shapinglight]

I'm having a hard time trying to come up with something that would make me angrier than Buffy boinking Angel on a pile of dead Slayers and totally blowing Spike off.

Yeah, that was pretty hard to take, as is knowing that no one at Dark Horse seems to understand why people would be so upset by it.

I really don't think that will happen, the thing that would make me angry at this point is for Angel to bring Giles back and have it all work out.

Me too. And I know what you mean about being torn. I would like Giles back too (not that season 8 made very good use of him), but not if it's because of Angel. How is he ever meant to learn anything if that happens?

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

I don't think any are likely, but 5 is the closest to what I think will happen. Literally waking up from a dream is too on the nose, but as a metaphor, yeah, there will essentially be a reset.

ETA - If I remember right, it was Jeanty who said the ending would piss people off. Then again, he also said S9 would be more intense than S8, so...

[shapinglight]

If I remember right, it was Jeanty who said the ending would piss people off.

Ah. No wonder I couldn't find it, then. Who the hell knows what Jeanty thinks would piss people off, or if Jeanty thinks at all?

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

He's just trying to sell books, I suppose.

For the ending, I'm guessing the whole Xander/Nightmare/True Love's kiss motif makes an appearance.

[shapinglight]

I'm guessing the whole Xander/Nightmare/True Love's kiss motif makes an appearance.

I can't guess at all, though Angel being partially vindicated at least is bound to crop up.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't know if he'll be vindicated himself, but it'll undoubtedly be presented as Buffy's fault in some way. Another theme from the first arc.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

I'm taking anything said by Allie, Jeanty, etc. with a grain of salt because too many times it's just been a bunch of bullshit.

[shapinglight]

It's true. They tell you one thing and then it never happens.

While trawling through those Q&As, I came across Allie telling someone he wasn't going to say too much about the Buffy/Spike interaction because it was 'worth waiting for.'

As far as I'm concerned, we're still waiting.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, don't forget option 6... Spike comes back as the big bad again, souless, evil and needing to find redemption yet again. That's so they can repeat ad nausism the same story over and over again.

[shapinglight]

Nice one, anonymous person. Consider it added to the poll.

[ex_peasant441]

I went for the nun option. Then Angelus can come back and chase her around like a Benny Hill sketch.

I'm quite looking forward to it.

[shapinglight]

It would be very funny.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I went with the dream choice because I've talked with other, longtime fans (who've actually read this shit - erm, stuff) and someone told me that the beginning of S8 seemed to indicated that that's what would happen. (Maybe Angearia told me that? IDR) And it seemed logical at the time because the show tended to begin and end with bookended images each season. but since no one at DH seems to care or even watch the show anyway, Maybe they read the synopsis so they can pick up a few key points and themes to recycle over and over. (Is there are cliffnotes version of BtVS?)

[shapinglight]

(Is there are cliffnotes version of BtVS?)

There probably is, but I'm beginning to doubt if they've even read that. ;(

Yeah, it's that bad.

Since I wrote this post, my foolish optimism has long since withered and died again.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Only since you wrote this? then I salute your foolish optimism it's courage and bravery for holding out so long - even Emmie turned in her "optimism card" a while back. (I turned in mine the first time I actually flipped through one of the S8 comics at the store. "Well that's sort of like Xander - as a Gary Stu - and is that 14 yr old kewpie doll supposed to be Buffy? Wait, WTF - Warren?" *points to icon* "Andrew is a freaking WATCHER?" etc)

BTW - regarding Allie's use of the word "landscape" - I have no idea what he means, but I often use the term in a metaphorical sense, ie, "emotional landscape" but then I always specify it as such.

[shapinglight]

I expect that's the sense in which he meant it, but who knows?

I honestly don't know what to expect with these comics any more, except that I'm pretty much guaranteed not to like them.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I honestly don't know what to expect with these comics any more, except that I'm pretty much guaranteed not to like them.

Right there with you. I almost talked myself out of even answering this poll except it seemed like harmless fun. I keep wondering though, why do I even bother considering the comics? I wish I had never looked at them, because I'd just finished watching Buffy. It feels like the comics are attacking something I love, and I get as defensive as when people attack Buffy herself. But this time the attack is coming from the inside, from "God the Father" (Joss) himself. Whatever problems I had with the solution in Chosen (and it is problematic) there were surely other ways of dealing with the fallout that didn't entirely undo the shows (attempted) feminist messages.

Again, I need to purge this from my brain like a really bad fanfic.

[shapinglight]

I really don't know what Joss was thinking, personally. I've seen him say that the fallout from Chosen in the comics was supposed to be like the backlash after Obama was elected.

Which, valid story to tell, I suppose, but there was so much else in that series that wrecked things people had loved in the show. Plus, I just don't think Scott Allie of Dark Horse 'gets,' or even likes, Buffy as a character.

And if that weren't bad enough (and thinking about it, not 'getting' Buffy is probably the worst thing), he pretty much went out of his way during the early part of season 8 to alienate the Spike/Spuffy fans. I think he had no idea they were such a large chunk of the remaining fandom, or I have to believe he would never have done something that made so little business sense.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I've seen him say that the fallout from Chosen in the comics was supposed to be like the backlash after Obama was elected.

My brain tried to convert that into "backlash after Bush was elected" (in 2000); I still remember the bitterness and rancor and anger. But Obama - wait, what? (And buffy is neither Obama or Bush - she's a warrior and a general.) I keep reminding myself not to listen to a thing that comes out of Joss' mouth.

"Believe the tale and not the teller" - I need to put that on a bumper sticker.

Which, valid story to tell, I suppose, but there was so much else in that series that wrecked things people had loved in the show.

The comics came up on lostboy's meta "Why the Buffyverse" that you inspired (it's actually my fault for mentioning them in the convo thread. I should be punished) and he came up with a very nice summation of why they don't work just in terms of what is lost in the translation from the tv screen to the page, the lack of actors, music etc. He's much more polite than I'm capable of being on the subject.

I agree with you - this COULD have been intelligent, interesting, coherent, etc. I didn't have any preconceived notions going into it except I don't read comics, but I know sometimes they can be an art form (Maus). The yawning chasm between the show and the comics is unbridgeable for me, never mind how offensive I find it. I don't understand sticking your thumb in the eyes of your own fans just to be clever or "make a point".

and thinking about it, not 'getting' Buffy is probably the worst thing

A world of YES to that. When I first picked up a copy of the early season 8 last year the one person who seemed strangest to me (least like her tv self) was Buffy. And to me that's fatal - it's her story. And my first impression was right; she's become increasingly irrelevant to her own story. So why keep her hanging around? they may be making some money on the various spinoff titles but no one is getting rich off of this - and they'd be making a great deal more if they invested some care into the project.

I'd just as soon let her have (another) glorious death than dwindle into nothingness. It's the comics so I won't give a damn or consider it canon, and then there's always the option to be resurrected by someone who cares about Buffy and wants to retell the tale properly.

BTW - I keep hearing some people claim that "Joss is a Spuffy" - and actually, Spuffy comes out smelling like a rose in S8 compared to Twangel/Twuffy (whatever the hell it's called.) Joss was never about "happily ever after" and I'm still convinced that the spacefrak is meant to mock fanfiction and all the fans who "don't get" what he was trying to do with Angel in S2. Again - bad form, dude, and just plain rude.

or I have to believe he would never have done something that made so little business sense.

For all I know this whole thing is somebody's tax write-off anyway. they can't be making that much money to begin with, but if they cared to they could make a great deal more. They had 4 years to correct course but in fact they only went in deeper.

I've read people claim that Joss is a Spuffy - but I've also heard the exact opposite - and compared to the spacefrak, Spuffy came out smelling like a rose at the end of S8. (Granted, that's setting the bar REALLY low.) I suppose Allie et al are trying to go by the "it's not what they want it's what they need" motto - which in my mind translates into "screw the fans it's what we want to do that's important" IDK

[shapinglight]

But Obama - wait, what?

I think Joss meant that everyone was so euphoric when Obama was elected, but then there was a horrible backlash. Plus, Obama disappointed a lot of his supporters, and poor Comics!Buffy more than does that in season 8.

Also, re the claim that Joss is a Spuffy, I think a while back - and not in connection with the comics specifically - someone asked him in an interview which of Buffy's relationships he preferred, and he said Spuffy. However, that doesn't for one minute mean he imagines her ending up with Spike. As regards what Spuffy there is in season 8 (opinions vary, but as a Spuffy, I'll probably never recover from what happened in the issue where Spike came back)it certainly doesn't come across as very important. In fact, the whole story, with the space frak and Angel being Twilight just doesn't work if people aren't convinced that Buffy still loves Angel.

And it's not so much that Spuffy came out of season 8 smelling of roses, more that Spike did. But that was part of the problem. Most of the way through the series - which lasted for 4 whole years - Scott Allie acted all perplexed that people could even be interested in what Spike might be up to, as if he couldn't understand why anyone liked the character. Then, when Spike finally did turn up five issues from the end, it was clearly just fan service. Yes, Spike was all heroic and stuff, but he was also completely irrelevant. The samne story could have been told without him appearing at all.

Hmm. Seems like I'm still quite bitter.