![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shapinglightI re-watched The Girl in Question last night. My muddled thoughts behind cut.
It's a bit of a split episode in many ways, though thematically it actually hangs together rather well - much better than I thought. The daft Angel/Spike stuff, in which they’re made to look like right idiots (especially Angel) and the serious Wes/Illyria stuff both talk about the same thing – the inability to move on. And at the end, not one of the people involved has managed to do so.
Our last sight of Angel and Spike is of them sitting side by side on Angel's desk, like a pair of grumpy old men, having just had a perfectly serious discussion about locking Buffy up in a cell like Pavayne's - verdict, better not, she's very strong and she probably wouldn't let them -insisting they're moving on while plainly not doing so.
Meanwhile, Wesley tells Illyria not to change into Fred any more and yet – as Illyria so rightly observes – he's still in love with Fred and consequently can't let go of her remnant. He may turn down Illyria's offer of sex (when she says she wishes to explore his feelings for the shell further that's what I take her to mean) but he doesn't walk away from her for good. He can't.
In an odd way, this being so close to the end of the season and a sort of time out as far as the ongoing plot goes (except for a brief mention by Gunn of the business with the Fell Brethren and the baby in Time Bomb), both plots in this episode are B plots. Spike and Angel go off on a daft romp to an imaginary Italy drawn in very broad strokes (the Rome branch of Wolfram & Hart being just like the L.A. one in every respect except that everybody smokes is hilarious, the spitting on the floor at the very mention of Gypsies rather less so) where they are made complete fools of either by the Immortal or (if you're taking BtVS season 8, the comic, on board) by Andrew, and led a merry goosechase round the city while failing to catch up with Buffy. In fact, they completely lose their heads, so it's no wonder they can't keep hold of the decapitated head in a bag they've ostensibly gone there to collect.
Along the way, we learn that Spike has pretty much given up all hope of Buffy – he says he knows he never had a chance with her and of course Angel's not going to contradict him- but he still cares about her and is still jealous of the Immortal (I think saying he cares about her is actually a massive understatement). Angel meanwhile is still hanging on to his sense of entitlement where Buffy is concerned (to the extent of siccing spies on her - or stalking her, as Spike rightly puts it) and belittles Spike's connection with her again as he did in Destiny (having sex isn't a relationship – it is if you do it enough)while knowing absolutely nothing about it.
The whole argument between them is drawn in such broad comedic strokes that the romance balloon of both 'ships is thoroughly and completely popped. I suspect this is why B/A 'shippers in particular loathe this episode, (well, the ones I've come across recently do - and what's more, the most fanatical of them seem to have the same sense of outraged entitlement as Angel does in this episode).
Actually, now I come to think of it, Spike's gloomy assessment of his chances with Buffy echo those of most S/B/former S/B 'shippers I know, who routinely expect to get shafted by Joss - or as some of them would see it, shafted again?
Hmm, maybe I've just understood for the first time why some 'shippers were so cross about this episode - because they realised they and their opinions were being sent up in the behaviour of their respective vampires? Rather clever really.
Anyway, the episode puts Angel and Spike on the same level for the first time where it comes to Buffy, which is basically don't get your hopes up any time soon, guys. As Andrew tells them, as things stand, neither of them have a chance with her. They have to grow up and move on, like she has. And maybe the ME writers (presumably with Joss's blessing) felt it was better to present a message like that in terms of comedy. Sometimes things don't end with a bang but with a whimper.
Have to say that I ended up feeling very sorry for Spike, maybe because this is one of the few times in the season that Spike appears vulnerable and that JM was able to use his full array of facial expressions. The camera remains on him during the short scene at Buffy's apartment where Andrew tells Spike and Angel to move on and he looks both devastated and like it was only what he expected. He may pretend otherwise in front of Angel and his friends but in many ways he obviously has quite a low opinion of himself still.
I don't feel sorry for Angel because I don't feel we're expected to and DB, who can perfectly well do pathos, just doesn't play it that way. He goes for the low comedy and does it very well indeed. He has Petty Angel off to a tee here.
The scenes with Wesley, Illyria and the Burkles are very well done. I feel terrible for Fred's parents. However, I can't quite believe that Illyria views them as dispassionately as she makes out. As Wesley says to Lorne, she's overcompensating. She wants to make a connection with someone no matter what she says.
I don't have a lot else to say. This episode doesn't advance the plot but more circles around it, and perhaps the Angel/Spike part of the episode might have been better placed earlier in the season, say before AHiTW, except that they couldn't have worked together like this at that stage – because they do work together in spite of all the grousing.
Just a short list of things I liked about the episode and things I wasn't so keen on
Things I liked
The flashbacks are all hilarious. I especially like the 1960s black and white one with Spike and Dru. Wonderful! And it's great to see Darla and Dru again one more time before the end
Every scene that Spike and Angel have together in this episode is comedy gold. My favourite of all is the silly fight in the nightclub followed by the car/vespa chase. I also love the competition about who saved the world the most and the fact that Angel started the whole thing. He's like a big, sulky kid. In fact, he starts every bit of silliness there is between them in the episode and I can't help being pleased that just for once Spike ends up looking like the sensible one. It doesn't happen very often.
I also like the way that before the end, both of them have started referring to Buffy as 'our girl.' It really does seem that if the relationship is to advance, Spuffel is the only way to go (which that one panel in the BtVS season 8 comic would seem to suggest is Joss's opinion too - or actually, it's more like, "I'm never going to choose B/A or S/B and anyway Angel and Spike aren't in this comic so nyah.")
Things I didn't like so much
As I said, the comedy is so broad that at times it tips over due to its own weight, what with the silly accents etc.
Andrew. Yes, it's well known I'm not keen on him. I actually didn't mind him too much in this episode until the last scene when he leaves the apartment with the two girls, the implication being that now he's all grown up he's put that silly gay stuff behind him. It stinks – and taking comics continuity into consideration and saying it's just an act and those girls are Baby Slayers playing a part doesn't actually improve it much. Very badly done.
Finally, I don't think it ultimately makes much difference whether that was the real Buffy in Rome or not or whether or not Buffy knows what Andrew said to Spike and Angel. This is partly because comics Buffy just isn't Buffy and partly because I suspect the moving on message remains true either way.
Best line: too many to mention
It's a bit of a split episode in many ways, though thematically it actually hangs together rather well - much better than I thought. The daft Angel/Spike stuff, in which they’re made to look like right idiots (especially Angel) and the serious Wes/Illyria stuff both talk about the same thing – the inability to move on. And at the end, not one of the people involved has managed to do so.
Our last sight of Angel and Spike is of them sitting side by side on Angel's desk, like a pair of grumpy old men, having just had a perfectly serious discussion about locking Buffy up in a cell like Pavayne's - verdict, better not, she's very strong and she probably wouldn't let them -insisting they're moving on while plainly not doing so.
Meanwhile, Wesley tells Illyria not to change into Fred any more and yet – as Illyria so rightly observes – he's still in love with Fred and consequently can't let go of her remnant. He may turn down Illyria's offer of sex (when she says she wishes to explore his feelings for the shell further that's what I take her to mean) but he doesn't walk away from her for good. He can't.
In an odd way, this being so close to the end of the season and a sort of time out as far as the ongoing plot goes (except for a brief mention by Gunn of the business with the Fell Brethren and the baby in Time Bomb), both plots in this episode are B plots. Spike and Angel go off on a daft romp to an imaginary Italy drawn in very broad strokes (the Rome branch of Wolfram & Hart being just like the L.A. one in every respect except that everybody smokes is hilarious, the spitting on the floor at the very mention of Gypsies rather less so) where they are made complete fools of either by the Immortal or (if you're taking BtVS season 8, the comic, on board) by Andrew, and led a merry goosechase round the city while failing to catch up with Buffy. In fact, they completely lose their heads, so it's no wonder they can't keep hold of the decapitated head in a bag they've ostensibly gone there to collect.
Along the way, we learn that Spike has pretty much given up all hope of Buffy – he says he knows he never had a chance with her and of course Angel's not going to contradict him- but he still cares about her and is still jealous of the Immortal (I think saying he cares about her is actually a massive understatement). Angel meanwhile is still hanging on to his sense of entitlement where Buffy is concerned (to the extent of siccing spies on her - or stalking her, as Spike rightly puts it) and belittles Spike's connection with her again as he did in Destiny (having sex isn't a relationship – it is if you do it enough)while knowing absolutely nothing about it.
The whole argument between them is drawn in such broad comedic strokes that the romance balloon of both 'ships is thoroughly and completely popped. I suspect this is why B/A 'shippers in particular loathe this episode, (well, the ones I've come across recently do - and what's more, the most fanatical of them seem to have the same sense of outraged entitlement as Angel does in this episode).
Actually, now I come to think of it, Spike's gloomy assessment of his chances with Buffy echo those of most S/B/former S/B 'shippers I know, who routinely expect to get shafted by Joss - or as some of them would see it, shafted again?
Hmm, maybe I've just understood for the first time why some 'shippers were so cross about this episode - because they realised they and their opinions were being sent up in the behaviour of their respective vampires? Rather clever really.
Anyway, the episode puts Angel and Spike on the same level for the first time where it comes to Buffy, which is basically don't get your hopes up any time soon, guys. As Andrew tells them, as things stand, neither of them have a chance with her. They have to grow up and move on, like she has. And maybe the ME writers (presumably with Joss's blessing) felt it was better to present a message like that in terms of comedy. Sometimes things don't end with a bang but with a whimper.
Have to say that I ended up feeling very sorry for Spike, maybe because this is one of the few times in the season that Spike appears vulnerable and that JM was able to use his full array of facial expressions. The camera remains on him during the short scene at Buffy's apartment where Andrew tells Spike and Angel to move on and he looks both devastated and like it was only what he expected. He may pretend otherwise in front of Angel and his friends but in many ways he obviously has quite a low opinion of himself still.
I don't feel sorry for Angel because I don't feel we're expected to and DB, who can perfectly well do pathos, just doesn't play it that way. He goes for the low comedy and does it very well indeed. He has Petty Angel off to a tee here.
The scenes with Wesley, Illyria and the Burkles are very well done. I feel terrible for Fred's parents. However, I can't quite believe that Illyria views them as dispassionately as she makes out. As Wesley says to Lorne, she's overcompensating. She wants to make a connection with someone no matter what she says.
I don't have a lot else to say. This episode doesn't advance the plot but more circles around it, and perhaps the Angel/Spike part of the episode might have been better placed earlier in the season, say before AHiTW, except that they couldn't have worked together like this at that stage – because they do work together in spite of all the grousing.
Just a short list of things I liked about the episode and things I wasn't so keen on
Things I liked
The flashbacks are all hilarious. I especially like the 1960s black and white one with Spike and Dru. Wonderful! And it's great to see Darla and Dru again one more time before the end
Every scene that Spike and Angel have together in this episode is comedy gold. My favourite of all is the silly fight in the nightclub followed by the car/vespa chase. I also love the competition about who saved the world the most and the fact that Angel started the whole thing. He's like a big, sulky kid. In fact, he starts every bit of silliness there is between them in the episode and I can't help being pleased that just for once Spike ends up looking like the sensible one. It doesn't happen very often.
I also like the way that before the end, both of them have started referring to Buffy as 'our girl.' It really does seem that if the relationship is to advance, Spuffel is the only way to go (which that one panel in the BtVS season 8 comic would seem to suggest is Joss's opinion too - or actually, it's more like, "I'm never going to choose B/A or S/B and anyway Angel and Spike aren't in this comic so nyah.")
Things I didn't like so much
As I said, the comedy is so broad that at times it tips over due to its own weight, what with the silly accents etc.
Andrew. Yes, it's well known I'm not keen on him. I actually didn't mind him too much in this episode until the last scene when he leaves the apartment with the two girls, the implication being that now he's all grown up he's put that silly gay stuff behind him. It stinks – and taking comics continuity into consideration and saying it's just an act and those girls are Baby Slayers playing a part doesn't actually improve it much. Very badly done.
Finally, I don't think it ultimately makes much difference whether that was the real Buffy in Rome or not or whether or not Buffy knows what Andrew said to Spike and Angel. This is partly because comics Buffy just isn't Buffy and partly because I suspect the moving on message remains true either way.
Best line: too many to mention