Fanfic musing

[shapinglight]

I don't know why I said I needed an icon for my fic writing whinges when I have this one. Not that this post is a whinge. More of a muse.

So, the other day, brutti_ma_buoni said that she's written 300+ fics in the last five years, which got me to wondering how many fics I've written in my eight years of fanfic writing (I think it's eight anyway). I haven't counted them, though, but instead got to musing about Buffyverse fanfic and fanfic writers in general.



When I think how much Buffyverse fanfic there was around in the early days compared to now it makes me a bit sad. There used to be so many websites out there -slash, het, yet more slash - whereas now - well, there are an awful lot less. I actually came into fic writing myself rather late in the day. I didn't post anything until after AtS ended. There was still a lot of fic being posted then. Those writers who'd survived the various shocks Joss had doled out along the way - like hiving Angel off into his own show at the end of season 3, or changing his mind about who sired Spike, or killing Tara, or lumping Spike (and thus Spuffy) with the AR - weren't ready to let go just yet.

So when I first dipped my toe into the Buffyverse fanfic writing waters, it was a pretty big pool with a lot of fish in it. Now, though, the pool has shrunk to more like a puddle, though -perhaps fortunately, perhaps not - there are a lot less of us to fill it. I can't think of many fic writers still in the fandom who've been active longer than I have (there are probably more still around than I realise as I'm not, for instance, friended to any Bangel writers), and not many who still only write Buffyverse stuff.

Which leads me to wondering why it is that the Buffyverse is still the only fictional world invented by other people that I want to fanfic? Am I just hidebound and complacent, do you think? Or are there still lots of meaningful things to say about the Buffyverse and its characters? Or, if not meaningful (because it's fanfic, after all) novel and interesting?

This post partly brought to you by my having fiddled with my rekindlespangel fic after all, even though I told myself to leave well alone, but ending up still thinking the premise pretty much smacks of desperation.

Hmm, this post sounded better in my head. Thoughts? Are there still new stories worth telling? Does it matter if there aren't? Is this post really whinging after all?

Comments

[rahirah]

I think some writers are drawn to particular sorts of character or relationship dynamics, and will be happy writing in any fandom, or about any characters, that have those dynamics. I think it's easier for them to switch fandoms, or write in multiple fandoms at once. Other writers are drawn more to the whole package - to universes rather than characters. Or maybe they just have much narrower ranges of relationship dynamics, such that they tend to arise only in certain types of universes. I dunno. I just know that it's a very, very, very rare fandom that inspires me to write fic - it's only happened twice, with Elfquest and Buffy. Not that I haven't tried to write fic about other fandoms occasionally (Star Trek, Doctor Who, Pern) but nothing's ever come of it.

A given writer may run out of things to say about a particular set of characters. But that doesn't mean that other writers won't still find new and interesting things to say about that exact same set of characters, because no two of us watch exactly the same show.

[kikimay]

Personally I think it's amazing that after all these years from both series finales there are still fanfics work in progress. I mean, how many other shows can have the same thing? I became part of the Buffyverse world after AtS ending and I'm one of the latest fangirls, so maybe I think it's amazing because of that, because I didn't see how it was before.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

BMB has written 300+ fics in the last year? DAMN.

To your questions - I've only written in two fandoms - Moulin Rouge (why does that still embarrass me to admit? IDK) and Buffy. writing fanfic or meta is something I can't imagine for any other movie or tv show (other than one not-bad effort for the movie The Hours, come to think of it.) And I came into fandom SWEARING I wouldn't write in this one. Hah.

As a newbie I'm not so aware of whose old, whose new - to me the library is just beginning to expand in terms of fics in this 'verse - from LJ to fanfic.net - which is where I got my start writing fanfic, but it never occured to me to look there for buffyverse fics until I found some recs - AoL, plus a variety of older websites, etc. And quite a few tend to be undated; I rarely glance at dates anyway. So for me, or I would think any other newbie, there's a great deal of richness yet to explore - this is the candy shop and here's the key.

None of which gets back to what you are saying, but - maybe there are only so many stories that can be told? As a writer I want to say something different, or say the same thing in my own particular way, and a lot has already been said. This applies to writing meta as well, of course. How many variations of Buffy and Spike reunite post-Chosen can there possibly be? And also, I'm not so much with the shippiness. That is, I love the late seasons, love Buffy and Spike S7, but the show wasn't exclusively about the romantic 'ships, but the majority of fanfic is.

I'm trying to expand my reading outside of spuffy but Bangel really doesn't float my boat, even when it's well-writing. Although I read two rather good, multichapter AU-ish ones yesterday that had some really original ideas and settings; and one had even very well-developed original characters. (Of course I've misplaced the link to it.)

And the overall level of writing is so high, at least what I've found, compared to the other fandom I was in (admittedly that's an apples to oranges comparison) that for my own part, I feel awed and more than a bit inadequate, looking at the quality that already exists here.

[rahirah]

Last FIVE years. Otherwise we'd have to kill her. *g*

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Oops. My bad. Still - that's pretty amazing, or at least it is to me.

[kikimay]

I do want the effort for The Hours! That movie makes me cry so damn much and, generally, it's one of my all the time favourites. Also I pretty much agree with everything you just wrote.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

Like you, I don't have much interest in reading or writing about characters in any verse except the one that got my attention in the first place. Having at least one thing that I'm writing/working on almost all the time for the past ten years or so has become so much a part of my life that I wonder what I will do with myself if and when the fandom dries up completely. I just don't have that same level of involvement with characters from any other fandom, even though I will sometimes read something from another fandom and enjoy it - it's not something I seek out.

I have no idea how much I've written - and where to draw the line? Should drabbles be included? How about really short things like those for sb-fag-ends? (not that I've done all that many).

I'm just grateful that there are still people who care about the fandom and who still read and write in it. Even if the numbers are way, way lower than they were when I first got into it and there were lots of archives to peruse and many more people writing.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

If I still have a copy of that story maybe I'll send it to you - or maybe I'll post it here on my journal? I kept sending messages to the admins of ff.net to create a catagory for The Hours (other friends said they'd be interested too) but I never got one damn reply. Meanwhile they created a category for the waste-of-my-time crap movie Hidalgo. WTF?

And yes, the Hours was one of my favorite movies - probably still is, I haven't watched it for a while. (the commentary track on the DVD is one of the few commentary tracks I actually enjoy.) It was the second or third movie I ever saw in which I felt like I was not quite the same person going out as I was coming in. (Previous honors go to The Piano and possibly Sophie's Choice, although I watched the latter on TV.) I literally buried my face in my hands and sobbed at the end of it because I felt like I'd been ripped down the center.

My friend who came with me was understandably a bit thrown by my behavior, poor dear.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I'm just grateful that there are still people who care about the fandom and who still read and write in it. Even if the numbers are way, way lower than they were when I first got into it and there were lots of archives to peruse and many more people writing.

the number of hours I have wasted in the last months - pleasurably - reading Buffy fanfic, I could not begin to quantify.

As a newbie I miss having been part of the excitement (especially when the fandom had a revival, from what I can tell, during 2008-2010 or so) but I'm also grateful not to have been caught up in wars, controversies and explosions? I mentioned to Barb once in a convo that I still find myself stepping in landmines, but overall things are very friendly and civil, and it's easy enough to pull back when I find opinions becoming overheated. And I think on some level, that passion, angst, bitterness in fandom is part of what fueled those creative spurts, but they also generated as much heat as light. So when that's lacking it feels like the fandom has died, but it's always new to those of us who are new to it - and who don't have a ready-made group with which to get feedback and bounce ideas off of. We have to slowly recreate networks and work our way into the fandom.

[kikimay]

Is it a fanfic? I'll read it, surely! I really love the movie (I didn't see The Piano and Sophie's Choice!) Generally Daldry's movies are beautiful - I also adored Billy Elliot and The Reader - but this one was so intense for me. I also cried like there was no tomorrow. And, you know, I also quoted the final soundtrack piece (Choosing Life) in a very emotional and "now I mix Buffyverse with my life" ficlet.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Is your ficlet in English? I'd like to read that.

You definitely should watch The Piano and Sophie's Choice. The Piano was one of the best movies of the '90's - I watched it again about ten years afterwards, expecting to feel very differently about it (ie as I get older my understanding and experience changes me and how I relate to a film etc) but I felt like I was the same person or it was the same film; it still stunned me, like an Old Testament god whom you hope is pleased with your offering, lest they smite you down. (I'm exaggerating for effect, but still....) And have hankies at the read when you watch Sophie's Choice, its utterly heartbreaking.

I really enjoyed Billy Elliot quite a bit but haven't seen The Reader. I was suprised he made another film; his comments after The Hours were very bitter in terms of the Weinstein brothers and all the game-playing that went along with promoting the film, etc.

BTW- pretty new icon! It's Buffy in S4, isn't it?

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

I came along really late, so I got to read all those stories when they were completed - except the ones that have been erased from the net. I kinda know what you mean from Trek fandom. I was a huge fan of the show when there was only one show, and no movies. It was one big family - dysfunctional as all hell.

I know that the Buffyverse is the only place that inspires me to write. There are other shows I like, and a few I love (have loved) but the characters in this universe all have so many layers. I think part of this is we get to watch them grow older. They make mistakes and have problems. Most shows seem to be more in the 'solve the problem of the week'. In the Buffyverse it's just as likely that any given character is the problem of the week. (Look at Lover's Walk)

Given that, my challenge writing is that I need to find my own stories - and so many great plots have been used. I need to find a new way of telling the same stories - or some other twist. But I don't want to write about any other shows, so here I am with you, in the Buffyverse. The great thing about reading here (B-verse) is that so often the same basic plot can be used to create a completely different story.

[kikimay]

Yes! It's Buffy in "The Yoko Factor". I think she's beautiful. <3
And, of course, my ficlet is in Italian. But eventually I'll translate that one too - I really wrote too many fanfics!
You know, actually everyone told me how beautiful was The Piano and, maybe, because of that I'm hesitating. I feel like it's too much the "you should watch" rather than "I'd like to watch". Am I making any sense here? My brain works in mysterious ways.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Oh Hell Yes it is! That's like a fic every five days, or 6 every month. I just...whoa.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

I so much agree with you on the standard of writing in this fandom! I've read stories in other fandoms - including the TOS fandom, and nothing competes with Buffyverse fandom. In fact, this was one of the huge draws toward expanding my interest beyond the shows.

Snicker - did anyone else think - wow, 200 years, and if you hade only two dates a year that would be..." ;)

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I feel like it's too much the "you should watch" rather than "I'd like to watch". Am I making any sense here? My brain works in mysterious ways.

I understand completely! At my last workplace everyone went on and on and on about "March of the Penguins" and what I heard made me decide to be utterly contrary and not see it. (Also, the descriptions brought back memories of those silly Disney nature documentaries I watched as a little girl on tv.) So my sweetie and I went to see The Wild Parrots of Telegraph Hill, instead - also a documentary and it made me bawl like a baby (happy tears) at the end. It's about love and devotion of very unconventional sorts.

On the other hand, overhearing strangers rave about Shakespeare in Love is what made me see it. I guess it's all to do with whether or not the thing sounds interesting to me or not.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

They make mistakes and have problems. Most shows seem to be more in the 'solve the problem of the week'. In the Buffyverse it's just as likely that any given character is the problem of the week. (Look at Lover's Walk)

Oh SO much so. It's why other tv shows are entertainment to me and the Buffyverse is something else entirely. I love that the characters actually challenge me to like them at times, and yet I can often understand them despite or because of their flaws.

The great thing about reading here (B-verse) is that so often the same basic plot can be used to create a completely different story.

Which comes back 'round to the fact that the writers here are so good and the level of writing so high. I've got a small handful of my favorite stories in the "Buffy and Spike post-Chosen or NFA" sub-genre, and they are each very different from one another but still capture something about the characters that feels true to me.

[brutti-ma-buoni.livejournal.com]

*eyes you*

Challenge?

...Nah.

*diez*

[brutti-ma-buoni.livejournal.com]

In my defence, many of them are under 250 words... But still, I am a little o_O at myself.

[brutti-ma-buoni.livejournal.com]

I still think there are stories to tell. It's not easy; I probably churn out ten ficlets knowing they are process, before hitting one that sings and feels new or interesting or worthwhile. But, eh, it's fun to write little mood pieces and try to evoke an instant or just be silly sometimes. They won't be the ones I reread, but they are enjoyable while they last.

[brutti-ma-buoni.livejournal.com]

*bows*

Thank you. But they are mostly *really* short, you know. And I like to noodle around with things as well as sometimes writing something actually worth keeping.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Maybe due to the show(s) being more character-driven than most? That and Joss's knack for pissing everyone off, thus the need to "fix" the show.

Then there's the weird revisionism of the shows themselves, where fanfic seems to be the premise for other fanfic. The 'verse being in constant re-invention.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Oh stop with the modesty, you.

[shapinglight]

I'd agree with all of that, and it does help explain to me why I like the Buffyverse so much. It's a discrete 'verse, not just a few interesting characters. I'm definitely the second sort of writer.

And yes, it's quite true that new writers can come along and say something new and interesting. There are lots of cases in point, not least oni_9 fic, The Tinder Box,.

[shapinglight]

I mean, how many other shows can have the same thing?

There are possibly more around than you think, but I wouldn't really know, what with being so Buffyverse-centric. ;)

Anyway, I'm glad there's still enough here to interest and draw in newcomers.