Game of Thrones Season 3 Ep 4 (the clueless about the books POV)

[shapinglight]

Oh boy, that was a good episode!

More behind cut with spoilers



I think it was my favourite so far (except for the Theon bit, which I watched from behind my hands while feeling very sorry for Theon and wishing this was the last we'd see of him for a bit, though I fear very much that it's not).

There were some terrific scenes for everyone, particular favourites being Cersei and Tywin (I agree with his assessment of her), Granny Tyrell and Varys, Jaime and Brienne, and the last scene with Dany, the dragons and the Unsullied, which I thought was just brilliant. I love Dany - which is not to say I think she's a wonderful, kind, nice person. She's not. But she's very queenly. Also, I think she did learn something from what happened to Mirri Maaz Duur's people. She may have sentimentalised Khal Drogo's memory to some extent, but I think she would see him for exactly what he is now, were she to encounter someone like that again.

Re: Arya and the Brotherhood Without Banners, bit of a shock to discover they all worship this Lord of Light (not a nice god, IMO), and this Beric Dondarrion - I only know who he is because I've been re-watching season 1 and I remember the scene where Ned Stark sent him off to catch the Mountain and bring him to justice. What happened to him? Did he bump into Melisandre and get converted, or come across the Lord of Light some other way? Now I'm worried they'll try to convert Arya and throw her on a bonfire if she refuses.

Margaery continues to be a complete delight. I love her Princess Diana act, though woe betide her if Joffrey ever gets jealous because the people love her more than they love him. I hope Margaery means what she said to Sansa. I don't want to see Sansa go away with Littlefinger.

I'm enjoying the way the dynamic between Brienne and Jaime is changing too. I hope they escape soon, but not very hopefully. Also, despite what he said to Cersei, just what exactly is Tywin doing to try and recover Jaime? Whatever it is, it's not working.

Finally, good riddance where Craster's concerned, though I am a bit upset about Lord Mormont. Doesn't seem right he should die that way. Also, run, Sam! Run!

Boy, this review's inadequate. Terrific episode. Loved it. Is it next week yet?

Trivial stuff: They keep saying winter's coming, but it still looks pretty summery at Kingslanding. When is that going to change? Also, now Dany has an army, how on earth is she going to feed them all?

And then there's Pod. Seems from what Ros said to Varys that the girls Tyrion set him up with weren't just being kind. There really was something about him they liked so much they refused the money. Hmm. Not sure I believe that, have to say.

Comments

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

I have been waiting for your review all day; I had a feeling you would like this episode. I'm glad all my show-only friends are finally getting a glimpse of why I love Jaime Lannister (in the early days I felt like a crazy maniac whenever I mentioned he was my favorite character.) And Dany's arc in this section of the books is basically my favorite Dany EVER.

[shapinglight]

I'm sorry it took me so long to post (and am surprised so few people wanted to chat about the ep - but maybe that's exactly because I left it so late to post).

I did like Jaime a lot in this episode. What's happening to him is awful, but unlike what's happening to Theon, it's not unbearable, because he's not alone. I love Brienne more than ever after this episode.

As for Dany, she was just super-awesome in every way (though I still wonder how she's going to feed all those soldiers). Poor old Jorah, though. That scene at the end where he comes up to her and she just looks at him and turns away. He can see she's gone beyond him, I think.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Curious thing, I was looking out for your review yesterday evening and couldn't see it, though according to the time stamp it was after you posted it. I found it today only by going directly to your blog.

Now I wonder if my friends page is broken and what else I'm missing, but maybe I just overlooked it.

I loved the episode too, especially the Dany bits. The way she told the slaver that Valyrian is her mother tongue! It was brilliant and also how she dropped that whip.

I also loved Varys and the Queen of thornes. I really hope the Tyrells get more center stage than in the book, since they work so nicely.
Also liked how Jamie and Brienne are evolving. It's the part of the book where Jamie does become easier to like.

Imho book three is the best of the series and so far the show promises to live up to it.

ETA: I looked it up again. It's not on my friends page where it should be and I don't have any filters on and we are still mutual friends. LJ seems to be on the fritz, very annoying.

ETA2: Seems it's not just me, who could not see it.

[shapinglight]

Now I wonder if my friends page is broken and what else I'm missing, but maybe I just overlooked it.

:( I was very late posting it. I didn't get to watch the ep until 8pm.

ETA2: Seems it's not just me, who could not see it.

Ah. That could explain why there are so few comments. Usually people want to chat. Maybe it's me, not you. No one can see me! Aargh!

Agree about Varys and Granny Tyrell, btw. They're wonderful together. I love the way the Tyrells are running rings around Cersei and Joffrey. Granny and Margaery are so much cleverer.

ETA: I know why you couldn't see it. Somehow or other, I managed to tick the box on the posting form that said not to put the entry on my friends page. Silly me.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

No one can see me! Aargh!

It seems so, I posted about it on my journal and quinara and beer said, they don't have the post on their page either.

Stupid LJ. Do you want to make a test post, see if it's still happening or back to normal?

ETA: I know why you couldn't see it. Somehow or other, I managed to tick the box on the posting form that said not to put the entry on my friends page.

That explains it. Those very helpfull options they give you. Why would anyone want a public post to go unseen?

[shapinglight]

That explains it. Those very helpfull options they give you. Why would anyone want a public post to go unseen?

I haven't a clue. But anyway, I've made another post and linked, in case anyone wants a belated chat about the ep.

I'm hoping they might ease back on the Theon stuff for a bit. Do you think that's at all likely?

Also, I need a Granny Tyrell icon. I wonder if anyone's made one yet?

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Theon has a really long break in the books, he basically starts doing stuff again in Book 5, so that would be season 6 of the show. I hope they don't draw it out that long, but I guess at least this season it will mostly be torture for him.

A Queen of Thornes icon would be super. The Tyrells really play the Lannisters like a fiddle and there is a lot more good stuff to come on that front.

[shapinglight]

I hope they don't draw it out that long, but I guess at least this season it will mostly be torture for him.

I've a horrid feeling we're going to get at least a bit in every episode. :whimper:

The Tyrells really play the Lannisters like a fiddle and there is a lot more good stuff to come on that front.

Oh goody! Though having said all that, I do hope the Tyrells' interest in Sansa is partly motivated by compassion, as well as the obvious political ambition.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

The cool thing about the Tyrells is that while their compassion has limits and they do of course act in self interest on the whole they seem to be good guys. They are just much much smarter good guys than the Starks and less concerned with honor.

But they are not pointlessly cruel. They want power, yes, but they don't think mindless butchering is the way to get there. It's just lovely to watch them at work.

[shapinglight]

But they are not pointlessly cruel. They want power, yes, but they don't think mindless butchering is the way to get there. It's just lovely to watch them at work.

Yes, have to say, I really admire Margaery taking on Joffrey when she knows exactly what a monster he is. Somehow, she's managing to stroke his ego and contain him at the same time. Smart.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Here is the icon, though I have to say I'd like a gif of one of those smart looks she gives people.

I really hope that in the next book, a Tyrell will get POV chapters.

[shapinglight]

Ooh, squee! Where did you get it? Can I snag?

The thing about Granny Tyrell, she says all these very cutting things, while managing to look kindly. Very good trick.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Weird, I was watching for this review yesterday and it never showed up on my flist.

Anyway, loved, loved, loved the Dany scenes. "Valyrian is my mother tongue, DUH." So pretty much what I guessed last week, except I failed to take Dany's, uh, "queenly" attributes into account. Kill and burn all the slavers, set the slaves free, and make them work for you. Right. Starting to think Robert Baratheon had kind of a point, awful as it was...

I'm kind of worried about Arya and the Brotherhood - then again, does anyone actually think old One-Eye has a chance against the Hound?

just what exactly is Tywin doing to try and recover Jaime?

Good question. Either nothing, or something very secretive. Maybe every stag in the forest is working for him or something? Didn't they reveal in the last episode that he only just found out that Jaime isn't a captive anymore - I suppose he's had to change his plans somewhat. Also, I love that he's pretty much outsourcing controlling his psycho grandson to the Tyrells.

Granny Tyrell is really growing on me. She has great snarky chemistry with everyone (loved her discussion of heraldry with her handmaidens) but she and Varys could be dangerous. (And Ros really doth protest too much about being a former prostitute, doesn't she? Yeah, that'll end well...)

Too bad about Mormont. I wonder how Jorah will take the news? Come to think of it, doesn't this mean that the Night's Watch is effectively gone? (Well, there's still old blind man Targaryen and Sam, but they're not much of an army...)

Joffrey slap count: 0/9. Damnit. But I'm sure that once the people in the crowd realised who that twerp next to Margaery was, they started pelting him with rotten fruit.

[shapinglight]

Weird, I was watching for this review yesterday and it never showed up on my flist.

Well, you might have seen it if I hadn't managed to tick the inexplicable box on the comment form that stops the post showing up on people's friends lists. ;)

Starting to think Robert Baratheon had kind of a point, awful as it was...Maybe every stag in the forest is working for him or something?

It's possible, but if so, they're not doing a very good job either. Perhaps they keep being hunted and killed before they can report? I like the Joffrey-outsourcing too. It's sort of slapping by proxy. Granny Tyrell is great. I want her to spirit Sansa away and look after the poor girl.

Too bad about Mormont. I wonder how Jorah will take the news? Come to think of it, doesn't this mean that the Night's Watch is effectively gone? (Well, there's still old blind man Targaryen and Sam, but they're not much of an army...)

I think it does, which means a very poor look out for Westeros when the White Walkers move south. But then, all through season 2, I wasn't quite sure what all that pratting about north of the Wall was for in the first place.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Ah, that explains it. :)

Actually the Robert-Ned discussion about Dany from s1 (damn, it seems like a long time ago, doesn't it?) really encapsulates a lot about the series. Ned refuses to have Dany assassinated because it's Just Not Done. She's a child, she's a woman, therefore she must be harmless because HIS HONOUR and THE RULES and STANDARD FANTASY NARRATIVE! Not completely unlike Mr Dragontoast in this episode. Our hero, ladies and gentlemen.

...Not that I'm saying that murdering Dany would have been the right thing to do, but it's interesting to see that the character we're (officially, while the writers giggle maniacally) expected to have sympathy with is blinded by his own prejudice of what a mere girl can be capable of. I actually love that they have her separated from the main story; when she gets started, Dany's going to cut right through this whole plot like a knife through butter. She's the joker in the deck. (Well, not the only one.)

[shapinglight]

Actually the Robert-Ned discussion about Dany from s1 (damn, it seems like a long time ago, doesn't it?) really encapsulates a lot about the series. Ned refuses to have Dany assassinated because it's Just Not Done. She's a child, she's a woman, therefore she must be harmless because HIS HONOUR and THE RULES and STANDARD FANTASY NARRATIVE! Not completely unlike Mr Dragontoast in this episode. Our hero, ladies and gentlemen.

I'm beginning to wonder what is wrong with this post. When I wrote an answer to your comment, I'm sure I included stuff about Dany, but it's not there. I said - or something like - that yes, though what she does in this ep seems very right-on- free all the slaves etc - there's no one more dangerous than an idealist who thinks they have a destiny. She's a very scary person.

I agree that she's the wild card in the story. Well, her and Jon. Not sure what his deal is (I understand GRRM hasn't revealed it yet, five books in) but I'm sure it's not just that he's Ned Stark's bastard son.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

The weird thing is, that bit showed up in the alert in my inbox:

Well, there are certainly no saints in this story, that's for sure. I can applaud what Dany did, while at the same time finding it deeply disturbing. Idealists - especially those motivated by a belief in their own destiny- are always the scariest people.

I think you may have missed closing an html tag or something, but I'm not sure why that would strip away an entire paragraph?

I agree that it looks like Jon has a role to play, but so far I don't find it nearly as intriguing as Dany's. Wake me up when he actually does something besides drift along in others' wakes and look sad. (Of course, IIRC he's a few years younger in the books, so that might delay his story a bit...)

[shapinglight]

The weird thing is, that bit showed up in the alert in my inbox:

Yep. That really is weird.

I agree Jon's story isn't exactly riveting. Far from it. I'm way more interested in Sam than I am in Jon. Sam has way more reason to be emo than Jon, yet he isn't at all. He's just nice.

Where's Jon's concerned, you can only hope that Ygritte will slap him around a bit and bring him up to scratch.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Sam has way more reason to be emo than Jon, yet he isn't at all. He's just nice.

Yep. Part of what I enjoy about the Stark childrens' stories (and wish there'd be more of) is that while yes, their lives have sucked over the past year or so, they're still very privileged upper-class brats by birth and are starting to realise that (except for Robb who's going the other way, I guess). Jon has spent his life fussing over what he doesn't have, never realising what he did have (not unlike Theon, though to Theon's credit, he does seem like he's starting to see that...) Jon never saw the Night's Watch as anything but a prison or at best a duty; for Sam it became liberating* - oddly enough it was Jon who helped him see that, but he never saw it himself...

* Well, by comparison, at least, and even if the other crows didn't quite see it that way.

[shapinglight]

Part of what I enjoy about the Stark childrens' stories (and wish there'd be more of) is that while yes, their lives have sucked over the past year or so, they're still very privileged upper-class brats by birth and are starting to realise that (except for Robb who's going the other way, I guess).

Very much so. It's possible that will crop up in Arya's story, given that she's fallen in with these people who claim they're just trying to help the innocent victims of the war, who are mostly the ordinary folk.

As for Jon and Sam, yes, Sam has done way more growing up than Jon. People keep dropping these anvils on him (like Sam's story of how he came to end up taking the black), but Jon just seems to forget over and over.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Re Granny Tyrell there seems to have been a small but expected change from the book. In the book there is this hilarious sequence where when the Tyrell/Stark marriage is proposed, Sansa only thinks they're proposing Loras (who in the book is on Joffrey's King's Guard and so cannot marry). Anyway witnessing Sansa's crush on Loras, Granny Tyrell is all

[shapinglight]

Help! Half your comment's missing! Don't leave me in suspense.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Re Granny Tyrell there seems to have been a small but expected change from the book. In the book there is this hilarious sequence where when the Tyrell/Stark marriage is proposed, Sansa only thinks they're proposing Loras (who in the book is on Joffrey's King's Guard and so cannot marry). Anyway witnessing Sansa's crush on Loras, Granny Tyrell is all (paraphrased) 'Oh, honey, no. Loras is a sweet boy, but he's not really marriage material,' mentally patting Sansa on the head assuring, 'You're better suited to my grandson Willas. Trust me.'

I know I'm not conveying it properly but it was a really funny scene that made clear that Granny Tyrell knows that Loras is gay, is fine with it, but thinks Sansa would be better off with a husband who is straight. Since the show already has a bazillion characters and Loras is already established and prominent it isn't really a surprise that the show decided to just use Loras rather than going through the need of creating another Tyrell grandson as Loras can more than adequately fill the role. Still, it was a funny scene in the book.

[shapinglight]

Yay! The rest of the comment. I agree it's a shame to lose that scene, and thinking of marrying Sansa to Loras makes Granny and Margaery look rather careless of Sansa's feelings, but I agree that there are enough characters in the show already without introducing more unnecessarily.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I suspected that they were folding Willas into Loras last season when, after riding to the rescue in King's Landing, Loras didn't join the King's Guard. In that scene in the book not only was it proposed that Margery marry Joffrey but also that Loras joined the King's Guard. As soon as that didn't happen I began thinking, yep. There won't be a Willas. That's Loras's plot now. (Which makes sense in that Loras is the more important character and it does make sense on the show to use the more established recognizable characters whenever they can. It's part of what works for TV).

The Tyrells are an interesting juxtaposition to the Lannisters. Tywin is all about the Lannister legacy, but as Cersei pointed out he loves his legacy more than his actual children. Tywin's style is to constantly test his children, to make his 'approval' an impossible goal. Granny Tyrell snarks and gruffs about her offspring, but she also accepts them. They are who they are. She can work with that. {Which strikes me as possibly the real purpose of the "Oh honey, no," scene in the book. It's contrast. On the one hand we have Tywin ripping Tyrion a new one for being a dwarf and thus 'unacceptable' while on the other you have Granny Tyrell clearly aware of the fact that her grandson is gay but continues to love him and isn't bothered by it... even as her plans for a dynasty proceed).

The Tyrells may be every bit as scheming as the Lannisters and I wouldn't want to be someone who crosses them, but one thing to be said for the Tyrells is that their family dynamic isn't screwed up royally like the Lannisters. The Tyrells genuinely care for their own.

[shapinglight]

The Tyrells may be every bit as scheming as the Lannisters and I wouldn't want to be someone who crosses them, but one thing to be said for the Tyrells is that their family dynamic isn't screwed up royally like the Lannisters. The Tyrells do actually care about one another.

That's nice to know. With the Starks scattered to the winds, it was beginning to seem like there were no families left in Westeros of whom this was true.

[kikimay]

It really was an amazing episode! I don't know if I love more Varys and the Queen of Thorns, Jaime with Brienne or Dany finally beating the crap out of that awful guy.
I'm kidding. Dany's scene was so epic and beautiful that I can't not choose it. But I really loved everything about the episode and I adore how Margaery is playing her cards.

[shapinglight]

I'm kidding. Dany's scene was so epic and beautiful that I can't not choose it. But I really loved everything about the episode.

Me too, except for the Theon stuff, which I'm finding more and more upsetting.

Dany was awesome, though. Scary, but awesome.

She makes a habit of being at her scariest when she's at her most awesome - for which see the final scenes of both season 1 and season 2.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I admit that I loved his scene talking about "I chose wrong" saying his true father was murdered in King's Landing. He sort of wended his way around to that conclusion in Book V but it was sad and tragic seeing him realize it here. (I actually have managed to develop a soft spot for Theon. That poor, poor bastard.)

[shapinglight]

Ah, so it took him longer to realise in the book? I suppose there's no hope this means the show will truncate the horrible stuff too?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Well, all of Theon's plot is in Book V. They just took his book 5 flashbacks and placed them in story in chronological order (and changed it a little. Theon's 'escape' in the book was somewhat different). Anyway, they've taken what was told in snippet flashback in Book V and inserted it where it chonologically would've happened so that the actor isn't missing for two seasons. In the book series Theon is MIA for both Book III and Book IV (though Book IV and Book V take place at the same time. They just each follow different subsets of characters and Theon is only in Book V).

Now the downside: Theon is in the clutches of what is possibly THE most irredeemably evil character in the books.

And I haven't forgotten about the Mountain or Joffrey.

[shapinglight]

Now the downside: Theon is in the clutches of what is possibly THE most irredeemably evil character in the books.

:(

You said the pretend escape was different in the book. Was it worse?

I'm hoping against hope that they'll back away from depicting some of the horrors I read on that Wiki page.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I'm holding off on describing what the 'escape' in the book was as they may yet use it.

[shapinglight]

:whimper:

[lizziebuffy2008.livejournal.com]

I did not watch it until last night, so I guess it was a good thing your post was delayed to this "friend." :-)

I loved the Dany part! I was worried they would stretch it out, but we got her full plan executed all together. You were concerned about how she would feed them, my hubby was like, "Does she have ships to put them on?" He loved the episode too; looked at his watch at the end in disbelief; going "it can't be over already???"

I thought the Theon part was particularly cruel, considering he had the break through about his real family versus his "captors." Like you; I am hoping for no more torture scenes.

I also loved the Queen of Thorns and Varys, as well as Jamie and Brienne, but was fairly confused about Bran's dream. I really want Joffrey ended and soon! I cannot stand that little brat. The actor has done such a convincing job (IMO) he is going to have to dye his hair and take a totally different role for me not to hate him on sight for anything else.

[shapinglight]

You were concerned about how she would feed them, my hubby was like, "Does she have ships to put them on?"

I don't think she has those either. Also, the dragon trick is only going to work once, I feel :(

She'll just have to hope that she comes across a nice, friendly city (a rich one, preferably), which wants her to rule it. Then she can feed and equip her army at her leisure.

The Theon part was horrid. I'm not sure how much more of it I can take.

Bran's dream confused me too. The best I've got is that his mother represented the voice of his own scepticism in his dream, which was reminding him that he can't climb any more because he's crippled. He has to learn to ignore that.

Agree with you about Jack Gleason. I hope the poor kid's not been traumatised by having to act such an awful character.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

this Beric Dondarrion - I only know who he is because I've been re-watching season 1 and I remember the scene where Ned Stark sent him off to catch the Mountain and bring him to justice. What happened to him? Did he bump into Melisandre and get converted, or come across the Lord of Light some other way?

Just wanted to say, you will get an answer to this and it'll make perfect sense what brought about his conversion.

However, I have no desire to spoil it. Season Three is just beginning to snowball. :)

[shapinglight]

Yay!

At least, I hope yay! Unless you just mean winter is finally going to arrive.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Winter has a bit of metaphor with it. The more things go to hell in Westeros the closer winter creeps.

But I meant action snowballing :)

[shapinglight]

Gotcha.