Game of Thrones Season 3 Eps 6&7 (the clueless about the books POV)

[shapinglight]

So, I'm back, and I've watched these two episodes.

Spoilers behind cut.



Well, when I say I've watched them, I mean I've watched them, apart from the Theon scenes, where I just shut my eyes, stuck my fingers in my ears and whimpered. I gather very horrid stuff happened to him, but I don't want to know what it was.

I was also pretty shocked by what happened to Ros. Not that Joffrey turned out to be a vicious sadist - only not as bad as the Bastard of Bolton because there are people keeping him in check - but that I really didn't expect Ros to be written out like that, given I'd always thought the character was a favourite with the writers.

On the other hand, her death did a very good job of showing what can happen to ordinary people who get mixed up in the plans of the movers and shakers like Varys and Littlefinger (who is a git. I hate him), and also of showing that no one is safe.

There was a lot going on in these two eps - an awful lot of storylines to service, meaning some great characters (Cersei, for instance - and yay!Bronn!, haven't seen him for ages) only got very short scenes. But both eps were very Jon Snow-heavy. He's not my favourite character by a long way, but I recognise that he's probably important to the overall story, and at least he's stopped sulking all the time. In fact, being around Ygritte has improved him no end. Still very worried about Sam, though.

And about Gendry. I realised what the Red Priestess (whose name I can never remember) planned to do with him the minute she started spouting on about how powerful and strong he was. I hope (not very hopefully) that Stannis will baulk at her plan and stop her.

Interesting, the connection between Wosserface (the Red Priestess, I mean), and Thoros. And creepy that she only reacted to how many times Thoros had brought Berec (sp?) Dondarrion back from the dead, by saying it shouldn't be possible to do it so many times. They are weird, these Lord of Light worshippers - like a twisted version of the early Christians, sneaking around trying to convert people on the quiet, and then setting fire to them if they won't. I don't like them at all. I almost think that Arya's better off with the Hound.

Other stuff: I can sense things sliding inevitably downhill for Robb and his followers. People have hinted at how something referred to crypticially as the 'RW' is approaching. I don't know what it is. I don't want to know. But I'm pretty sure it's not anything good. Still, maybe we won't have to yawn our way through scenes featuring the World's Most Boring Woman afterwards.

Some great scenes in both eps - Tywin and Granny Tyrell, Sansa and Margaery, Osha's warning about the White Walkers (speaking of whom, didn't a huge army of them pass Sam on their way to the Wall at the end of season 2? Where have they got to?). Also, I have no idea whether Dany's bitten off more than she can chew taking on this new city. I hope not. On the other hand, her self-belief is rather scary.

Have to say, though, my favourite scenes continue to be the Jaime/Brienne ones. I was hoping against hope that Jaime was going to tip that horrible Lock person into the bear pit, but I suppose he's not up to that any more. Plus, Lock's followers would probably have killed him. Most of all, though, I love that he came back for Brienne. I can see why people 'ship them. After this, I think I do too.

Trivial stuff: after weeks of getting away with - now literal - murder, Joffrey finally gets a slapping from Grandad. Sadly, not quite so literal, but it obviously hurt. Serve the little brat right.

Comments

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Trivial stuff: after weeks of getting away with - now literal - murder, Joffrey finally gets a slapping from Grandad. Sadly, not quite so literal, but it obviously hurt. Serve the little brat right.

That definitely counts as a slap. "I could arrange for you to be carried." And at the same time, Joffrey's the only one who's scared shitless of Dany, which should guarantee that Tywin leaves her alone for a while...

[shapinglight]

Yes, there is that. Not that I think even Tywin could do much to Dany at the moment.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I noticed about 2/3 through last night that we hadn't had a scene with Sam. We need to check back in with those two soon.

[shapinglight]

Yes, I mean, who knows what's out there lurking? ;(

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'm hoping for only one more Theon scene, that being the prelude to the reveal of who has him captured (which you know, but which the show has refused to confirm for the audience).

[shapinglight]

Could you just confirm (without me having to watch the scenes), are they speeding through all the awful things that happen to Theon at a breakneck pace?

I'd like to think that the scenes this season are all we'll have of them.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I think they've done what they've needed to do. The point (if there was one) in the book was that it wasn't just that Theon was physically tortured, it was that he was psychologically destroyed.

In the book he disappears at the end of Book II as Theon. We don't hear from him again until we're introduced to the POV character Reek, a terrified, wretched, crazed husk of a man and slowly you realise that 'Reek' is Theon. That realization is horrifying. Reek lives in terror and doesn't think of himself as a man any longer (the references to having been castrated are always oblique in the book, but you tended to think he meant it both figuratively and literally.) You get enough flashbacks to realise that Theon had been tortured and mutilated. That his captor completely destroyed him. He's tortured if he claims to be Theon Greyjoy and is told that his name is Reek. He constantly chants variations of things to remind himself that he isn't Theon. (Most often its Reek Reek Rhymes with Freak.') So the 'point' if there is one was that Theon didn't just suffer but was well and truly broken. He's constantly terrified, literally living with the dogs, having totally lost his identity and sanity. He had tried to escape once and the retribution was so terrible that he can't even conceive of trying again. You get the impression it would be a mercy if the poor bastard could just die. That's where his Book 5 plot starts. Two things then happen. Theon Greyjoy becomes a political pawn and they need to sane him up. Not easy. He's been psychologically tortured and terrified to the point that its harrowing for him to hold his sanity together for any length of time. Second plot is that someone fairly innocent falls into their clutches. It's a fairly harrowing redemption arc for Theon to work up the courage to help this person and the two of them escape. So Theon gets a redemption arc. I went from loathing the character in book 2 to rooting for him to rescue the other person, escape, help his sister (separate plot for his sister, but there's still a way he could help her. I like his book sister a lot), get revenge on the Boltons and have a redemptive death (because I'll be shocked if he can be psychologically whole again). He's managed two of those wishes by the end of Book 5.

[shapinglight]

Thanks. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like they're done with him yet.

Was that extremely unpleasant scene with the two girls in the book?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

No, it wasn't. Whether the castration was literal was always vague.

[shapinglight]

It's possible the scene with the girls - which was very, very unpleasant - will be used as a kind of shorthand for a lot of the horrible things that happen to Theon.

I hope so anyway.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Anyway, I think that what they decided was that because the show doesn't do flashbacks, so they keep the timeliness chronological. If he just popped up again crazed we wouldn't have proper context. We needed to see that Theon wasn't punished. After what he did at Winterfell, the audience wanted him punished. What Theon went through wasn't punishment. It wasn't just. No human being should be put through what Theon was put through. No one. No matter how horrible.

Plus we need some idea of how much courage it will take for Theon to do anything from now on. He isn't a coward for breaking. Anyone would break from what he was put through. It takes real courage to try to reclaim the tiniest part of himself and to rescue someone else from the Bolton hell.

[shapinglight]

Plus we need some idea of how much courage it will take for Theon to do anything from now on. He isn't a coward for breaking. Anyone would break from what he was put through. It takes real courage to try to reclaim the tiniest part of himself and to rescue someone else from the Bolton hell.

Oh dear. We're definitely due for more, then. He's not nearly broken enough yet, I fear. :(

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I think they've done enough. Just show him sobbing in a corner and move on to the reveal. I think I may have read somewhere that he's only scheduled for one more episode this season, so I'm guessing the only thing left is to reveal the torturer's name and see whether or not it was condoned torture (I don't honestly remember.)

[shapinglight]

That's an enormous relief. I can probably cope with one more scene the usual way - by not watching it. ;)

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm worried about Gendry - to the point of considering spoiling myself.

Must resist!

[killerweasel.livejournal.com]

I loved the scene with Joffrey and his grandfather because you can see how frightened Joffrey is of him. Joffrey's body language changed the moment he came into the room. He scrunched up smaller in the chair (how very un-king-like) and whinged like the child he is.

I actually yelled at the screen this morning that Jamie had better get his ass back on a horse and go save Brienne because he owes her. Kept hoping that one of them would tip that asshole into the bear pit, but I was denied.

I don't like Theon. I could care less about what happens to him. But, I have to say tht was the first time this series has actually squicked me to the point where I had to mute it and look away. I just on't really understand why the crazy man is torturing him in the first place, other than he can. As for what he did... Theon is going to be less of a man. D:

[shapinglight]

I loved the scene with Joffrey and his grandfather because you can see how frightened Joffrey is of him. Joffrey's body language changed the moment he came into the room. He scrunched up smaller in the chair (how very un-king-like) and whinged like the child he is.

Very much so. I found myself wondering if Tywin knows Joffrey's actual parentage full well, even though he'd deny it to everyone else. I bet he does.

I don't like Theon either, but the scenes with him are just unbearable. I want them to stop. :(

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Awww, the Jaime/Brienne stuff was just PERFECTION! Even more than the bearpit (which I loved - and did you notice "The Rains of Castamere" was playing over the final scene, which I think suggests someday the Lannisters will collect their debts from Locke?), I loved the scene where Jaime says goodbye to Brienne and swears a vow to her and she believes he will keep his word and calls him "Ser Jaime", instead of Kingslayer. *stars in my eyes*

[shapinglight]

I loved the scene where Jaime says goodbye to Brienne and swears a vow to her and she believes he will keep his word and calls him "Ser Jaime", instead of Kingslayer. *stars in my eyes*

Yes, it was a great scene. I love these two now. I'm glad they're staying together for the meantime (though a bit worried about what will happen to Brienne if they ever get back to Kingslanding. I don't think Cersei will like her one bit).

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

I was very worried for the bear.

Actually the squickest scene in the whole show for me, was the skinning rabbits one.

[shapinglight]

Actually the squickest scene in the whole show for me, was the skinning rabbits one.

Which, bizarrely, I didn't mind a bit, even though I don't eat meat. ;)

Yes, poor bear. I'm sure he'd rather have been out in the woods.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I only saw 3.06 so far but I hope to catch up tonight. I'm really looking forward to the Jaime/Brienne stuff since I loved it in the book and of course to all things Tyrion.

I really like Ygritte on the show at the moment but I could absolutely do without the Theon torturing every episode. I left during the scene and I intend to do so during the next episodes too...

Not really sad that Ros is gone, not that she deserved such an end but her scenes always felt so contrived and there are so many characters I really enjoy to watch.

[shapinglight]

I'm really looking forward to the Jaime/Brienne stuff since I loved it in the book and of course to all things Tyrion.

Well, you won't be disappointed, I don't think. All scenes featuring those characters are wonderful.

I agree that it's hard to be sad about Ros. Says something about the way the character has failed to endear herself. I feel the same way about Talisa. I honestly don't care what happens to her (as long as it's not horrible torture, because one character going through that is enough).

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Saw the second one now and loved it. Jaime and Brienne in the bear pit are one brilliant great scene. I love their relationships in the book, it's what redeems Jaime on the long haul. Jaime has somehow long quit the general morals of his world, but when he starts to care about someone, be it Cersei, Tyrion or Brienne, he is an incredibly loyal guy.

I think this is also why Jaime and Spike get compared so often by people who are into both shows/books.

Can't say I care about Talisa either. Somehow the non-book characters just don't work for me. I get annoyed at them for every scene I like that is cut from the book characters.

I do hate the Theon bits, I'm leaving the room now. Really, it was bad in the flashbacks in the books, but it was smart not to actually show it there and I have a feeling that here it is only done so that the actor wont be out of a job for two years.

[shapinglight]

I do hate the Theon bits, I'm leaving the room now. Really, it was bad in the flashbacks in the books, but it was smart not to actually show it there and I have a feeling that here it is only done so that the actor wont be out of a job for two years.

Yes, I suppose it pays them to hurry through things so they won't have to pay him next year, or whatever. Plus, it gives him a chance to find other projects. Most of the actors involved seem to be able to fit their GoT work around their other work. Iain Glen, for instance, seems to be in loads of things at the moment.

[twilightofmagic.livejournal.com]

I also went can't watch the Theon torture scenes and it's been going on for the last two episodes and maybe more. I mute the sound and look away. It's major downside of historical/fantasy genres, these medieval torture scenes all over the place. None of the characters make me like them much except for the developing humanizing of Jaime and his genuine respect for Brienne. And Tyrion, of course. have no idea what happens to Joffrey in the future, but I hope it's something bad (heh, which I won't watch or listen to if it happens). Still, I wish him ill.

[shapinglight]

I like a lot of the characters without actually liking them, if you see what I mean. I like Tywin Lannister, for instance, because I think Charles Dance is superb. I'd watch any scene with him in it.

But Tywin's still a horrible person.

I've tried to answer your PM three times, btw, and LJ isn't letting me.

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

Argh, I'm either cut off from LJ or it misbehaves, so I'm late with reply.

I loved Episode 3.6! Maybe because it strayed far from the books and threw in some surprises and some philosophy.

Varys and LF defined the theme of the season - the coming of chaos, who tries to stop it and keep it together, and who tries to benefit. Chilling talk between them, and then - vow, the end of Ros!
I now feel bad for me waiting to see her out of the show for so long. But no one deserves such and end.

Interesting how they drew parallels between Arya and Jeoffrey, both shooting arrows at unmoving targets and in the same places (*shudder*). And the talk of Arya and the Red Woman - not from the book, but so foreboding.

Tywin and Olenna! Tywin and Jeoffrey!
I didn't like 3.7 much as it seemed mostly a filler, and spent too much on very boring couples of Robb/Talisa and Jon/Igrytte. Sorry Igrytte, but you are almost as boring as Talisa now, and that's saying a lot.
Jon/Igrytte part was so much stronger in the books, Jon's internal conflict especially. It does not translate to this show well.
And I'm sorry to say, but I'm counting Tyrion/Shae into boring couples as well. Tyrion sparks with everyone on the show but her. So yeah, another wasted piece.

Basically 3.7 was about love and relationships, and there was one relationship that continues to be a highlight - Jaimie and Brienne. Superb, I'm looking forward to them the most!

Oh yeah, and Dany's smackdown of Yunkai guy was superb too.

Hmm, and Margeory talk with Sansa. I'm loving how their relationship is developing. Margeory is trying to be kind and makes some valid points, but she's in control of her decisions - or at least appears to take what is coming to her willingly, while Sansa has no control and no safety at all.

[shapinglight]

Argh, I'm either cut off from LJ or it misbehaves, so I'm late with reply.

:( Your account must be on one of the damaged clusters.

Varys and LF defined the theme of the season - the coming of chaos, who tries to stop it and keep it together, and who tries to benefit. Chilling talk between them, and then - vow, the end of Ros!
I now feel bad for me waiting to see her out of the show for so long. But no one deserves such and end.

Yes, that was a seminal scene, I feel. Littlefinger scares me. He's just so damn nasty.

I liked 3.07 more than you because I like Jon and Ygritte. They're not my favourite characters to watch, and I do get fed up of her constantly saying, "You know nothing, Jon Snow," but I don't find them boring. I do find Robb and Talisa boring, though. Especially her. I didn't mind Robb so much until she came along.

Lots of interesting stuff elsewhere, though. I do hope Margaery isn't just using Sansa. Also, though I don't dislike Shae as much as you do, I find the idea of Tyrion/Sansa far more interesting.

[lyr]

You know, as I was watching "Bear ad the Maiden Fair", I realized that the goodbye between Jaime and Brienne reminded me very much of the scene between Buffy and Spike in "The Gift" if you substitute Sansa and Arya for Dawn. It never struck me before.

[shapinglight]

I agree. There are definite similarities.