Game of Thrones Season 3 Ep 9 (the clueless about the books POV)

[shapinglight]

Just watched this, and I don't know about anyone else but....

Spoilers behind cut



....while the cryptic hints people had dropped about the 'RW' made it clear it was something terrible, I didn't think it would be quite this bad. I found the final scenes seriously, seriously upsetting, mainly because I loved Catelyn so much, and her dying like that - the last thing she sees, her beloved son being murdered in front of her eyes - was just horrible. I feel so bad for Arya too. It seems like there's no end to the horror for her. As far as she knows, everyone she loves is dead apart from Sansa and Jon Snow, and she doesn't want to be with Sansa (and I don't blame her, who'd be where poor Sansa is when she finds out about this?), and she has no idea where Jon is.

I don't know what the Hound will do with her now, but he's become sort of her protector by default. No idea where that will go.

Robb wasn't my favourite character by a long way, and I didn't care about Talisa, but Robb was one of the less horrible characters in the story. Now he's gone, the remaining contenders for king are really not a nice bunch.

Well, Dany's not so bad, but I have to admit I find the Motley Crue reject such a turn-off that my interest in Dany's story (usually my favourite part of the show) has plummeted. And it's not just because he's completely upstaged Jorah, honest. I've always known that 'ship would never sail. I just hate that Jorah's place as Dany's right hand man has been usurped by this annoying, pointless character. Meh!

Elsewhere, I was sad to see Bran and Osha part company. Their relationship has always been one of my favourites in the show. It's also frustrating that Bran and Rickon didn't get to at least speak to Jon, and now they're not together any more either. I do think now that the remaining Stark children will probably never see each other again, and it's very sad, because they're all -well, the younger ones - such likeable characters.

Anyway, I suppose it's too much to hope that something terminally nasty will happen to Walder Frey and his horrible family any time soon, or that Roose Bolton will catch something nasty and die?

Thought not.

:Gloom:

Trivial stuff: I don't think there is any. :(

Oh, unless it's that Sam is still a complete sweetie.
Also that after watching the preview for next week I'm very worried about Gendry.

Comments

[paratti.livejournal.com]

It is not too much to ask.

Hugs.

[shapinglight]

Really?

If you're referring to horrible Lord Frey then a qualified yay! at least.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Red Wedding is a gut punch. I always felt that it was an unutterably cruel thing to do to Arya (it is to Catelyn as well, but it was Arya who just KILLED me in the book). She arrives at the castle eager to be reunited with Robb and Catelyn and it's just as everything is going to hell. It does make you cheer for the Hound, though, when he figures out what's going on, Arya is refusing to leave, and he clonks her on the head and carries her off. I think it shows that there is something decent deep down in The Hound, because what is he going to do with her at that point? There's no "North" to trade her to and the only value she might have is to the Lannisters, and he can't go to the Lannister's.

Still, if he hadn't dragged her away she too probably would have died there because Arya would have rushed in where angels would fear to treat. But -- oh God -- poor Arya. And poor Sansa too. I truly hope that it is not a gloating Joffrey or Cersei who tells her. I hope it's either Shae, Tyrion, or Margery because it would be just too terrible to bear if it's Joffrey gloating to her face.

And I'm unsure of the timing (so don't know when it will air this season or next), but there should be a nice moment (and by nice I mean nice) coming for Sam. Hint: Sam explained there's a way through the wall...

[shapinglight]

Yeah, the Red Wedding is a gut punch. I always felt that it was an unutterably cruel thing to do to Arya (it is to Catelyn as well, but it was Arya who just KILLED me in the book)

Yes, poor Arya. It really is a wonder she's not catatonic. As for Catelyn, I admit I was shaking when the episode ended and still feel a bit shaky now. I hate what happened to her.

I truly hope that it is not a gloating Joffrey or Cersei who tells her. I hope it's either Shae, Tyrion, or Margery because it would be just too terrible to bear if it's Joffrey gloating to her face.

I've a horrible feeling it will be one of them. This show does so love to twist the knife. I was wondering if the news would the last straw for Sansa and she would run away with Littlefinger (who I imagine won't be too pleased either). I hope not, because he's a git and Sansa's better off with Tyrion, but I can see her doing it.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

I've just finished watching it, too (I usually wait until it airs on Sky Atlantic tonight, but was worried about getting spoiled) and really wish I hadn't. :( I found it horrifying and deeply upsetting. I so wish I'd spoiled myself for it now - and not because any of the characters were particular favourites (because they weren't). The whole final act disturbed me on so many levels and I don't really know what to think about it. :/ I just want to curl up into a ball and pretend I didn't see it. :(

[shapinglight]

I feel a bit that way too. I knew that 'RW' stood for red wedding, but I didn't know any of the details, particularly not that poor Arya would as good as witness the entire thing.

I felt quite shaky when the episode ended.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

It's such a game-changing moment in the series (book and TV); there's a great review in "Rolling Stone" about how the setup from Episode 1 of the series has been Stark vs. Lannister and that's not true any more.

I LOVED Catelyn and in the book chapter the whole thing is told from her perspective (also, even fifteen-year-old Book Robb isn't stupid enough to bring the girl he jilted his Frey bride for TO the Twins. Even if Walder hadn't planned to betray Robb, it was hardly a good move to get him to let Robb have all those troops to flaunt his pregnant wife in Frey's face! I don't care much for Talisa, but I felt so bad for her in this episode.) Mostly I felt awful for Catelyn but the Red Wedding is also a tragedy for the North in that so many of its lords are killed there (in the series, I think we really don't see ANYONE besides Karstark and Bolton, but there are a whole bunch of others who are also killed at the Red Wedding, so basically afterwards, every family in the North has had someone killed, wounded or missing there. Which plays a big role in what transpires later on.)

Robb's problem was that he didn't actually WANT the Iron Throne anyway, so what was he fighting for? Revenge for Ned's death? He should have bent the knee to Stannis and together they would have had the Lannisters beaten.

[shapinglight]

Robb's problem was that he didn't actually WANT the Iron Throne anyway, so what was he fighting for? Revenge for Ned's death? He should have bent the knee to Stannis and together they would have had the Lannisters beaten.

I agree that it would have been the most sensible thing to do.

I'm going to give Robb a pass for bringing Talisa to the wedding. I don't know what his relationship was like with his wife in the book (I gather her name wasn't even Talisa), but the show has spent quite some time building it up and making it clear how much he loves her, so I think they felt they'd get more drama out of his death scene if he had to watch her die first.

Which is horrible, but then this show often is. And, oddly, though the scene left me shaken and upset, I found it less unbearable than every scene this season with Theon, and - as I discovered when I started my season 2 rewatch - than that horrible scene where Tyrion gives Joffrey a night with Ros and the other girl as a name day present and Joffrey forces Ros to beat the other girl black and blue.

I had to skip the entire scene.

But anyway, I can see why the wedding was not in the final episode. I expect that to be a bit of a downer, but not as bad as this. I just hope that the season doesn't end with a scene of Dany succumbing to the - to me non-existent - charms of the Motley Crue reject. I'd find that a real let down.

Also, I'm going to miss Catelyn. A lot.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

There's another bit..that's important regarding the Red Wedding. In Westeros it is repeatedly mentioned that you do not kill or harm anyone you have made a guest and shared food with. Note at the beginning, they are all making a point of eating the Frey food that's being passed around on a plate. This means the Frey's won't attack them. If they do - it's bad luck and no one will trust the Frey's again. Really bad luck.

Three bad things you don't do: kinslayer, kingslayer, and well killing your guests, particularly wedding guests.

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

Um. I think it doesn't reflect well me that I was thrown out of the shock of the murderous wedding as bit by laughing at the spurting blood (I have no idea (and have no wish to know) how blood spurts realistically, but it all looked a bit ridiculous to me.

I wasn't terribly surprised, as I have been listening to the audio book as well and I have been thinking for awhile that Catelyn had run out of story, but I wasn't expecting her to die. Unlike Talisa, who I knew was doomed the moment she mentioned she was pregnant a few episodes ago. Robb, I hadn't expected to last this long; the curse thing just sealed his doom.

[shapinglight]

I've no idea how blood spurts either. Depends where you're bleeding from, I imagine.

I've only read the first book (didn't get along with GRRM's prose), so I had no idea that things would be quite this bad.

Except that they often are in GoT, of course. Very few characters are safe.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I kept thinking...that this episode needed to come with a viewer advisory or we should warn the poor unsuspecting viewers about the Red Wedding. It is by the way a book term not a fan term. Everyone in Westeros refers to it as the Red Wedding.

In the books it is far gorier and far worse than it was on screen. This was actually fairly tame in comparison. Although at least in the books, Robb was smart enough not to bring his wife - actually he considers not going himself but Catelynn tells him that he has too or it would be considered a slight.
He doesn't take his wife. And they are worried enough to bring along the army, and do make a point of eating the Frey's food. Once they do they relax - because you don't kill your house-guests, it's considered bad luck.

Not a nice scene. It's what I meant when I said that GRRM makes Whedon look like wimp in comparison. These books are gory affairs. Although that is the worst scene in them...so far. (Well outside of the stuff with Theon, which is why I really didn't understand why we needed Theon in this season too. Seriously, wasn't the Red Wedding enough?)

I loved Bran - that actor is mesmerizing. Agree on Daario - he's annoying in the books as well. I keep hoping Martin will kill him off. Actually it's Dany's attitude towards him that's annoying. She has the worst taste in men.

[shapinglight]

I kept thinking...that this episode needed to come with a viewer advisory or we should warn the poor unsuspecting viewers about the Red Wedding.

shipperx linked to a vid of fans watching the finale and their reaction to it. A lot of shrieks and screams from the non-book readers.

Not a nice scene. It's what I meant when I said that GRRM makes Whedon look like wimp in comparison

GRRM makes Whedon look pretty soppy, for sure. Whedon arguably ruined Willow's story in season 6 because he couldn't bear to kill Tara, so I read.

I agree the kid playing Bran is very good, and by the time season 4 rolls around, he'll probably be an awful lot taller and possibly all spotty. ;)

[lyr]

Yes, it was as awful to see it happen as I feared it would be. It was almost worse, I think, knowing what was coming. Because the moment Catelyn hears the minstrels strike up "Rains of Castamere" and turns with a dawning unease on her face, I was already keening under my breath. And watching her plead for Robb's life, knowing it was hopeless, was just agonizing. I think the Red Wedding is the most traumatizing bit of canon for me, and it's even moreso now. I mean, when Ned died, okay, I had the uncomfortable realization that anyone could die. But after the Red Wedding, I had the even more uncomfortable realization that everyone could die.

[shapinglight]

It really was horrible. Poor, poor Catelyn. And yes, no one is safe. Characters like her don't normally die in medias res in fiction.

[makd.livejournal.com]

This was, seriously, one of the most disturbing episodes of television I've seen in a long, long, time. I had difficulty moving onto the next program (Mad Men), and had to sit with a cup of milk. Ugh.

[shapinglight]

Yes, it was very, very upsetting. The Starks are getting too much of a battering, IMO.

[paratti.livejournal.com]

It is not too much to ask.

Hugs.

[shapinglight]

Really?

If you're referring to horrible Lord Frey then a qualified yay! at least.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Red Wedding is a gut punch. I always felt that it was an unutterably cruel thing to do to Arya (it is to Catelyn as well, but it was Arya who just KILLED me in the book). She arrives at the castle eager to be reunited with Robb and Catelyn and it's just as everything is going to hell. It does make you cheer for the Hound, though, when he figures out what's going on, Arya is refusing to leave, and he clonks her on the head and carries her off. I think it shows that there is something decent deep down in The Hound, because what is he going to do with her at that point? There's no "North" to trade her to and the only value she might have is to the Lannisters, and he can't go to the Lannister's.

Still, if he hadn't dragged her away she too probably would have died there because Arya would have rushed in where angels would fear to treat. But -- oh God -- poor Arya. And poor Sansa too. I truly hope that it is not a gloating Joffrey or Cersei who tells her. I hope it's either Shae, Tyrion, or Margery because it would be just too terrible to bear if it's Joffrey gloating to her face.

And I'm unsure of the timing (so don't know when it will air this season or next), but there should be a nice moment (and by nice I mean nice) coming for Sam. Hint: Sam explained there's a way through the wall...

[shapinglight]

Yeah, the Red Wedding is a gut punch. I always felt that it was an unutterably cruel thing to do to Arya (it is to Catelyn as well, but it was Arya who just KILLED me in the book)

Yes, poor Arya. It really is a wonder she's not catatonic. As for Catelyn, I admit I was shaking when the episode ended and still feel a bit shaky now. I hate what happened to her.

I truly hope that it is not a gloating Joffrey or Cersei who tells her. I hope it's either Shae, Tyrion, or Margery because it would be just too terrible to bear if it's Joffrey gloating to her face.

I've a horrible feeling it will be one of them. This show does so love to twist the knife. I was wondering if the news would the last straw for Sansa and she would run away with Littlefinger (who I imagine won't be too pleased either). I hope not, because he's a git and Sansa's better off with Tyrion, but I can see her doing it.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

I've just finished watching it, too (I usually wait until it airs on Sky Atlantic tonight, but was worried about getting spoiled) and really wish I hadn't. :( I found it horrifying and deeply upsetting. I so wish I'd spoiled myself for it now - and not because any of the characters were particular favourites (because they weren't). The whole final act disturbed me on so many levels and I don't really know what to think about it. :/ I just want to curl up into a ball and pretend I didn't see it. :(

[shapinglight]

I feel a bit that way too. I knew that 'RW' stood for red wedding, but I didn't know any of the details, particularly not that poor Arya would as good as witness the entire thing.

I felt quite shaky when the episode ended.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

It's such a game-changing moment in the series (book and TV); there's a great review in "Rolling Stone" about how the setup from Episode 1 of the series has been Stark vs. Lannister and that's not true any more.

I LOVED Catelyn and in the book chapter the whole thing is told from her perspective (also, even fifteen-year-old Book Robb isn't stupid enough to bring the girl he jilted his Frey bride for TO the Twins. Even if Walder hadn't planned to betray Robb, it was hardly a good move to get him to let Robb have all those troops to flaunt his pregnant wife in Frey's face! I don't care much for Talisa, but I felt so bad for her in this episode.) Mostly I felt awful for Catelyn but the Red Wedding is also a tragedy for the North in that so many of its lords are killed there (in the series, I think we really don't see ANYONE besides Karstark and Bolton, but there are a whole bunch of others who are also killed at the Red Wedding, so basically afterwards, every family in the North has had someone killed, wounded or missing there. Which plays a big role in what transpires later on.)

Robb's problem was that he didn't actually WANT the Iron Throne anyway, so what was he fighting for? Revenge for Ned's death? He should have bent the knee to Stannis and together they would have had the Lannisters beaten.

[shapinglight]

Robb's problem was that he didn't actually WANT the Iron Throne anyway, so what was he fighting for? Revenge for Ned's death? He should have bent the knee to Stannis and together they would have had the Lannisters beaten.

I agree that it would have been the most sensible thing to do.

I'm going to give Robb a pass for bringing Talisa to the wedding. I don't know what his relationship was like with his wife in the book (I gather her name wasn't even Talisa), but the show has spent quite some time building it up and making it clear how much he loves her, so I think they felt they'd get more drama out of his death scene if he had to watch her die first.

Which is horrible, but then this show often is. And, oddly, though the scene left me shaken and upset, I found it less unbearable than every scene this season with Theon, and - as I discovered when I started my season 2 rewatch - than that horrible scene where Tyrion gives Joffrey a night with Ros and the other girl as a name day present and Joffrey forces Ros to beat the other girl black and blue.

I had to skip the entire scene.

But anyway, I can see why the wedding was not in the final episode. I expect that to be a bit of a downer, but not as bad as this. I just hope that the season doesn't end with a scene of Dany succumbing to the - to me non-existent - charms of the Motley Crue reject. I'd find that a real let down.

Also, I'm going to miss Catelyn. A lot.

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

Um. I think it doesn't reflect well me that I was thrown out of the shock of the murderous wedding as bit by laughing at the spurting blood (I have no idea (and have no wish to know) how blood spurts realistically, but it all looked a bit ridiculous to me.

I wasn't terribly surprised, as I have been listening to the audio book as well and I have been thinking for awhile that Catelyn had run out of story, but I wasn't expecting her to die. Unlike Talisa, who I knew was doomed the moment she mentioned she was pregnant a few episodes ago. Robb, I hadn't expected to last this long; the curse thing just sealed his doom.

[shapinglight]

I've no idea how blood spurts either. Depends where you're bleeding from, I imagine.

I've only read the first book (didn't get along with GRRM's prose), so I had no idea that things would be quite this bad.

Except that they often are in GoT, of course. Very few characters are safe.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I kept thinking...that this episode needed to come with a viewer advisory or we should warn the poor unsuspecting viewers about the Red Wedding. It is by the way a book term not a fan term. Everyone in Westeros refers to it as the Red Wedding.

In the books it is far gorier and far worse than it was on screen. This was actually fairly tame in comparison. Although at least in the books, Robb was smart enough not to bring his wife - actually he considers not going himself but Catelynn tells him that he has too or it would be considered a slight.
He doesn't take his wife. And they are worried enough to bring along the army, and do make a point of eating the Frey's food. Once they do they relax - because you don't kill your house-guests, it's considered bad luck.

Not a nice scene. It's what I meant when I said that GRRM makes Whedon look like wimp in comparison. These books are gory affairs. Although that is the worst scene in them...so far. (Well outside of the stuff with Theon, which is why I really didn't understand why we needed Theon in this season too. Seriously, wasn't the Red Wedding enough?)

I loved Bran - that actor is mesmerizing. Agree on Daario - he's annoying in the books as well. I keep hoping Martin will kill him off. Actually it's Dany's attitude towards him that's annoying. She has the worst taste in men.

[shapinglight]

I kept thinking...that this episode needed to come with a viewer advisory or we should warn the poor unsuspecting viewers about the Red Wedding.

shipperx linked to a vid of fans watching the finale and their reaction to it. A lot of shrieks and screams from the non-book readers.

Not a nice scene. It's what I meant when I said that GRRM makes Whedon look like wimp in comparison

GRRM makes Whedon look pretty soppy, for sure. Whedon arguably ruined Willow's story in season 6 because he couldn't bear to kill Tara, so I read.

I agree the kid playing Bran is very good, and by the time season 4 rolls around, he'll probably be an awful lot taller and possibly all spotty. ;)

[lyr]

Yes, it was as awful to see it happen as I feared it would be. It was almost worse, I think, knowing what was coming. Because the moment Catelyn hears the minstrels strike up "Rains of Castamere" and turns with a dawning unease on her face, I was already keening under my breath. And watching her plead for Robb's life, knowing it was hopeless, was just agonizing. I think the Red Wedding is the most traumatizing bit of canon for me, and it's even moreso now. I mean, when Ned died, okay, I had the uncomfortable realization that anyone could die. But after the Red Wedding, I had the even more uncomfortable realization that everyone could die.

[shapinglight]

It really was horrible. Poor, poor Catelyn. And yes, no one is safe. Characters like her don't normally die in medias res in fiction.

[makd.livejournal.com]

This was, seriously, one of the most disturbing episodes of television I've seen in a long, long, time. I had difficulty moving onto the next program (Mad Men), and had to sit with a cup of milk. Ugh.

[shapinglight]

Yes, it was very, very upsetting. The Starks are getting too much of a battering, IMO.