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I watched forty minutes of The White Queen. I got very bored and turned it off. I did like the Earl of Warwick's horse though.

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Can't say I noticed his horse in particular, but then I don't tend to notice of horses.

If I do watch another episode, though, I'll pay more attention. Going by the first episode, at least the horses were better actors.

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I think most of my problem was that there wasn't enough plot for my liking, it just came across as some historical romance thing and I don't care.

it wasn't so much the horse as how he looked in his fancy tack.

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The history of the period is pretty convoluted. Not sure how good it's going to be for gripping telly.

Not to mention, there are so many dukes of this and earls of that. People will get confused.

I'm already confused by Elizabeth's brothers. There are too many of them and they all look the same.

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I watched it, and as a mediaevalist, it didn't seem particularly realistic to me either. Actually, the fact she pulled a knife on him made it less realistic to me, than if she'd just put up with it or refused him in some other way. Precisely because women at that time were expected to do as told by men. The attempted rape makes more sense than her reaction to it.

Which is generally my issue with it, I think. She seems a very flat character to me with no real personality/reasons for the way she acts. I know we're supposed to read her as eager for power, but I just couldn't get that from the portrayal at all. Her mother has much more character depth!

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Her mother has much more character depth!

Not to mention a much more bonkers hairdo.

Yes, the Elizabeth character does seem pretty flat. There's no chemistry between her and King Rapist either.

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Yes! The hairdo is magnificent. I also quite like her voice. I don't think her character is realistic for the period either (I seriously doubt Paganism was that prominent in the higher circles ever, and certainly not in the 1400s anymore!), but at least she has character and a motivation for what she does.

No, there isn't any chemistry. Well, not from her side, I think he looked quite taken with her, in a very male chauvinist way. Which in a way would make sense if she just wanted him for his power, and used his lust for her, but that didn't come across at all, which is probably why she feels so flat...

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I don't think her character is realistic for the period either (I seriously doubt Paganism was that prominent in the higher circles ever, and certainly not in the 1400s anymore!), but at least she has character and a motivation for what she does.

I don't know for sure, but I think there must be some historical context for Jacquetta Rivers being, or believing herself to be, a witch. Philippa Gregory's isn't the only historical novel I've come across with that idea in it. Dunno.

Which in a way would make sense if she just wanted him for his power, and used his lust for her, but that didn't come across at all, which is probably why she feels so flat...

Yes, it was hard to believe that she felt any actual passion for him. He came across so much as an arrogant, spoilt public schoolboy.

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shipperx.livejournal.com

I figured that I'd give this one a chance OnDemand (which was more or less the way that I watched The Borgias. I watched whenever I was bored and remembered that it existed.) I was wary of it because it's based on Phillipa Gregory's writing.

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As long as you don't expect too much historical verisimilitude it's okay, I guess. Like The Tudors and The Borgias, both of which sound very similar.

I've not watched either, so this was my first experience of the genre.

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eilowyn.livejournal.com

I miss the batshit crazy of True Blood. I think I'll go watch season 5 and then try to catch up on season 6.

And I'm right there with you on the AR. It was irresponsible from a character standpoint, a storytelling standpoint, and a feminist standpoint. People as smart as those writers should have come up with something better.

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I miss the batshit crazy of True Blood. I think I'll go watch season 5 and then try to catch up on season 6.

I loved season 5. I thought it was the best season of TB since season 2. But what do I know? All the reviewers seem to have hated it, and to be of the opinion that shows like TB shouldn't try to comment on real world parallels.

People as smart as those writers should have come up with something better.

Or to have thought through the consequences of what they planned. Only Jane E seems to have done that, and even she's all aboard the 'if I had to do it all again, I wouldn't change a thing' train now.

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spikereader.livejournal.com

We started watching The Returned on Channel 4 last Sunday, so stuck with that this week (weird, spooky, intriguing and enjoyable so far). I had intended to Sky+ The White Queen but forgot, and can't say that I'll be rushing to catch up on the iPlayer from the various reactions I've seen online.

I am enjoying The Returned though, not least because it's in French with subtitles, so it means I actually have to sit down and watch the TV, rather than pottering around doing other stuff and just listening!

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and can't say that I'll be rushing to catch up on the iPlayer from the various reactions I've seen online.

So I'm not the only person who wasn't impressed, then? Can't say I'm surprised by that.

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flake-sake.livejournal.com

Oh god, I was planning to watch that and I am very glad for the heads up. I can deal much better when I expect bad.

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I think it'll be okay if you lower your expectations.

A very long way.

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The White Queen was historical twaddle. It reminded me of all the reasons I don't read Phillipa Gregory and her ilk. The only thing I liked was that they had Jaquetta and Elizabeth using actual magic which was a nice touch (they were both accused of it but of course in most novels that is just a terrible slur on Our Heroine) plus it means the story becomes Fantasy not History so we don't mind it being so wildly silly ;)

supposedly set in the Middle Ages (who knew they were that clean?) and things were different back then. Perhaps women in those days took men's being unable to take no for an answer as a compliment, or as being their fault for tempting the poor bloke in the first place (you know, by being female?).

Actually they would have been that clean. Numerous scholarly articles have been written about how popular bathing was in the Middle Ages. As far as I know, nobody in any era has ever enjoyed going around caked in mud and sweat, other than the odd religious fanatic. Give me time and I'll find you some raunchy pictures of communal (and mixed) bathing houses. Think a Roman bath with gothic architecture and more sex.

I was just reading the other day about a case where a woman was assaulted by a man who broke into her house and attempted to rape her. She called down the hue and cry on him and he was chased away by her friends and relatives, two of whom got wounded in the process. He was later found dead 'by his own hand'. I think that tells you most of what you need to know about their attitude to rape and responsibility.

So anyway, despite the fact it was nonsense, as nonsense goes it passed the time and is no worse that Game of Thrones, so I'll probably keep watching. It's not as if there's anything else on at the moment.

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it passed the time and is no worse that Game of Thrones,

I disagree. GoT is a really good show. This was a load of old bollocks.

As for the cleanliness thing, I was talking more about the houses and general surroundings than the people. Elizabeth's parents' house looked like someone's Beautiful Home from Hello magazine.

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Nope, houses were pretty clean as well. The floors of house platforms are always hollowed out because they were brushed out so often, and the bit in Chaucer about the poor widow who kept Chanticleer having a sooty bower is a sign of her extreme poverty that she didn't have time to clean - implying that other people normally did. I will allow you a little more mud in the streets though ;)

I meant no worse than GoT in terms of historical twaddleness. Some people seem to think GoT is an accurate depiction of the Middle Ages which I completely disagree with.

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Some people seem to think GoT is an accurate depiction of the Middle Ages which I completely disagree with.

Really? How very silly of them. I'm fairly certain GRRM hasn't claimed such a thing. Not that I really know. I tend not to delve into the background of his writing process. Or his writing, for that matter. Took me ages to read the first book of the series and I've no desire to read further.

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I didn't get past the preview on Amazon. I may be doing him a disservice since it is hard to know what is his own and what has been introduced by the TV writers, but I find the writing, especially the overall arcs and plotting, the weakest part of the whole thing.

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sibilant.livejournal.com

I thought the White Queen was the most awful twaddle I've seen in ages. I watched for 25 minutes in increasing disbelief that this sort of rubbish actually gets made by serious, intelligent people. I can only assume they're chasing the 'Merlin' audience.

Poor Janet McTeer never gets any decent parts now - she seemed to go from interesting ingénue to playing someone prettier's mum overnight - I suppose it's because she's tall and sort of craggy looking.

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The best thing about it has been the TV reviews in the Guardian, which are hilarious.

I didn't bother with ep 2, though. Life's too short.

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I watched forty minutes of The White Queen. I got very bored and turned it off. I did like the Earl of Warwick's horse though.

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Can't say I noticed his horse in particular, but then I don't tend to notice of horses.

If I do watch another episode, though, I'll pay more attention. Going by the first episode, at least the horses were better actors.

From:

I think most of my problem was that there wasn't enough plot for my liking, it just came across as some historical romance thing and I don't care.

it wasn't so much the horse as how he looked in his fancy tack.

From:

The history of the period is pretty convoluted. Not sure how good it's going to be for gripping telly.

Not to mention, there are so many dukes of this and earls of that. People will get confused.

I'm already confused by Elizabeth's brothers. There are too many of them and they all look the same.

From:

I watched it, and as a mediaevalist, it didn't seem particularly realistic to me either. Actually, the fact she pulled a knife on him made it less realistic to me, than if she'd just put up with it or refused him in some other way. Precisely because women at that time were expected to do as told by men. The attempted rape makes more sense than her reaction to it.

Which is generally my issue with it, I think. She seems a very flat character to me with no real personality/reasons for the way she acts. I know we're supposed to read her as eager for power, but I just couldn't get that from the portrayal at all. Her mother has much more character depth!

From:

Her mother has much more character depth!

Not to mention a much more bonkers hairdo.

Yes, the Elizabeth character does seem pretty flat. There's no chemistry between her and King Rapist either.

From:

Yes! The hairdo is magnificent. I also quite like her voice. I don't think her character is realistic for the period either (I seriously doubt Paganism was that prominent in the higher circles ever, and certainly not in the 1400s anymore!), but at least she has character and a motivation for what she does.

No, there isn't any chemistry. Well, not from her side, I think he looked quite taken with her, in a very male chauvinist way. Which in a way would make sense if she just wanted him for his power, and used his lust for her, but that didn't come across at all, which is probably why she feels so flat...

From:

I don't think her character is realistic for the period either (I seriously doubt Paganism was that prominent in the higher circles ever, and certainly not in the 1400s anymore!), but at least she has character and a motivation for what she does.

I don't know for sure, but I think there must be some historical context for Jacquetta Rivers being, or believing herself to be, a witch. Philippa Gregory's isn't the only historical novel I've come across with that idea in it. Dunno.

Which in a way would make sense if she just wanted him for his power, and used his lust for her, but that didn't come across at all, which is probably why she feels so flat...

Yes, it was hard to believe that she felt any actual passion for him. He came across so much as an arrogant, spoilt public schoolboy.

From:

shipperx.livejournal.com

I figured that I'd give this one a chance OnDemand (which was more or less the way that I watched The Borgias. I watched whenever I was bored and remembered that it existed.) I was wary of it because it's based on Phillipa Gregory's writing.

Edited Date: 2013-06-18 02:21 pm (UTC)

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As long as you don't expect too much historical verisimilitude it's okay, I guess. Like The Tudors and The Borgias, both of which sound very similar.

I've not watched either, so this was my first experience of the genre.

From:

eilowyn.livejournal.com

I miss the batshit crazy of True Blood. I think I'll go watch season 5 and then try to catch up on season 6.

And I'm right there with you on the AR. It was irresponsible from a character standpoint, a storytelling standpoint, and a feminist standpoint. People as smart as those writers should have come up with something better.

From:

I miss the batshit crazy of True Blood. I think I'll go watch season 5 and then try to catch up on season 6.

I loved season 5. I thought it was the best season of TB since season 2. But what do I know? All the reviewers seem to have hated it, and to be of the opinion that shows like TB shouldn't try to comment on real world parallels.

People as smart as those writers should have come up with something better.

Or to have thought through the consequences of what they planned. Only Jane E seems to have done that, and even she's all aboard the 'if I had to do it all again, I wouldn't change a thing' train now.

From:

spikereader.livejournal.com

We started watching The Returned on Channel 4 last Sunday, so stuck with that this week (weird, spooky, intriguing and enjoyable so far). I had intended to Sky+ The White Queen but forgot, and can't say that I'll be rushing to catch up on the iPlayer from the various reactions I've seen online.

I am enjoying The Returned though, not least because it's in French with subtitles, so it means I actually have to sit down and watch the TV, rather than pottering around doing other stuff and just listening!

From:

and can't say that I'll be rushing to catch up on the iPlayer from the various reactions I've seen online.

So I'm not the only person who wasn't impressed, then? Can't say I'm surprised by that.

From:

flake-sake.livejournal.com

Oh god, I was planning to watch that and I am very glad for the heads up. I can deal much better when I expect bad.

From:

I think it'll be okay if you lower your expectations.

A very long way.

From:

The White Queen was historical twaddle. It reminded me of all the reasons I don't read Phillipa Gregory and her ilk. The only thing I liked was that they had Jaquetta and Elizabeth using actual magic which was a nice touch (they were both accused of it but of course in most novels that is just a terrible slur on Our Heroine) plus it means the story becomes Fantasy not History so we don't mind it being so wildly silly ;)

supposedly set in the Middle Ages (who knew they were that clean?) and things were different back then. Perhaps women in those days took men's being unable to take no for an answer as a compliment, or as being their fault for tempting the poor bloke in the first place (you know, by being female?).

Actually they would have been that clean. Numerous scholarly articles have been written about how popular bathing was in the Middle Ages. As far as I know, nobody in any era has ever enjoyed going around caked in mud and sweat, other than the odd religious fanatic. Give me time and I'll find you some raunchy pictures of communal (and mixed) bathing houses. Think a Roman bath with gothic architecture and more sex.

I was just reading the other day about a case where a woman was assaulted by a man who broke into her house and attempted to rape her. She called down the hue and cry on him and he was chased away by her friends and relatives, two of whom got wounded in the process. He was later found dead 'by his own hand'. I think that tells you most of what you need to know about their attitude to rape and responsibility.

So anyway, despite the fact it was nonsense, as nonsense goes it passed the time and is no worse that Game of Thrones, so I'll probably keep watching. It's not as if there's anything else on at the moment.

From:

it passed the time and is no worse that Game of Thrones,

I disagree. GoT is a really good show. This was a load of old bollocks.

As for the cleanliness thing, I was talking more about the houses and general surroundings than the people. Elizabeth's parents' house looked like someone's Beautiful Home from Hello magazine.

From:

Nope, houses were pretty clean as well. The floors of house platforms are always hollowed out because they were brushed out so often, and the bit in Chaucer about the poor widow who kept Chanticleer having a sooty bower is a sign of her extreme poverty that she didn't have time to clean - implying that other people normally did. I will allow you a little more mud in the streets though ;)

I meant no worse than GoT in terms of historical twaddleness. Some people seem to think GoT is an accurate depiction of the Middle Ages which I completely disagree with.

From:

Some people seem to think GoT is an accurate depiction of the Middle Ages which I completely disagree with.

Really? How very silly of them. I'm fairly certain GRRM hasn't claimed such a thing. Not that I really know. I tend not to delve into the background of his writing process. Or his writing, for that matter. Took me ages to read the first book of the series and I've no desire to read further.

From:

I didn't get past the preview on Amazon. I may be doing him a disservice since it is hard to know what is his own and what has been introduced by the TV writers, but I find the writing, especially the overall arcs and plotting, the weakest part of the whole thing.

From:

sibilant.livejournal.com

I thought the White Queen was the most awful twaddle I've seen in ages. I watched for 25 minutes in increasing disbelief that this sort of rubbish actually gets made by serious, intelligent people. I can only assume they're chasing the 'Merlin' audience.

Poor Janet McTeer never gets any decent parts now - she seemed to go from interesting ingénue to playing someone prettier's mum overnight - I suppose it's because she's tall and sort of craggy looking.

From: