A writing post for a change

[shapinglight]

I haven't done one of these for a while, so I thought I might as well.

Occasionally, I look at the hits on the stories I've posted on Ao3. Some continue to go up, though slowly (doubt I'll ever reach the heights of some stories I've seen on there, with almost 1000 hits. I'll be lucky to get 100 on any of mine), others seem firmly stuck pretty much where they started.



I'm assuming that this has more to do with people's character preferences than anything, because otherwise I can't explain why Venus and Mars, one of my own favourites, and (IMO) one of my best stories stays stuck on 11 hits, where it's been for ages, while others, which I don't consider as good, go upwards. Or maybe people just don't like historical stories? I posted a couple of short things a few weeks back. One - a Giles piece - has garnered 15 hits, while the other, a 1000 word Fanged Four tale has only four (and was stuck on one for ages).

I dunno. History is of the then, or course, whereas we are all in the now.

Anyway, where current writing goes, I forced myself to start revising my penultimate Spike/Giles season 7 story the other day. I managed the first two sections, because they didn't actually need much work, but when I got to the part where I know I have to start re-writing whole scenes, I came over all tired and gave up. :(

I was hoping to finish the entire series for brutti_ma_buoni's letsgetitdone challenge. Now, I think I'll be lucky to finish just this part.

As for the story I started on sb_fag_ends last month, I've written one more part, but I don't want to post it. I want to write two or three more, or even more than that, before I consider doing so.

And the whole experience is making me feel all over again that I should have stuck to my long ago resolution never to start posting a WIP until I know I can finish it.

:Gloom:

Finally, I saw the first part of a story posted the other day. I thought I might glance at it, but then read in the blurb that Character X was hardly in the story, and that the author hated the Character-X/Character-Y pairing. This didn't seem to me a good way to advertise a story (unless you only want other Character-X/Character-Y haters to read it). What do you think?

Comments

[aka-zoe.livejournal.com]

I'm one of those 11 on "Venus and Mars." While I would not normally seek out Darla-and-Dru fic, I read it when I first discovered your work (when I read ALL THE THINGS). I enjoyed the heck out of it, and it really drove home to me that I shouldn't not read something just because I'm not a huge fan of the featured character(s). If I like the writer, and the premise is interesting, I'll read it.

[shapinglight]

I'm one of those 11 on "Venus and Mars."

Hey, thanks for that. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I did have fun researching it and doing the pastiche thing.

[aka-zoe.livejournal.com]

I just read it again. Loved all the little historical details. And the endnotes! They ate my afternoon!

[shapinglight]

:)

Must say, the potential for sticking Darla in wonderful period costume has always been a big appeal to me about writing historical fics.

Have you read hello_spikey's Jane Austen meets Mr and Mrs Angelus stories? They're such fun. I do get the horrors imagining Angelus with the sideburns, though.

[aka-zoe.livejournal.com]

I have never heard of these wonderful sounding things! Off to read!

[shapinglight]

I hope you enjoyed them (and still hope she'll write the third story in the sequence one day).

[rahirah]

"I hate X so they won't appear in this story" always irritates me. You don't like X, fine, don't write about them, but announcing that you're doing that because you hate them is just obnoxious.

[shapinglight]

I agree. Some people just seem to feel the need to announce their hatred of particular characters/pairings to world, even when it's not relevant to anything.

[rahirah]

I still get a perverse kick out of the comments on one of Kairosimperfect's S1 reviews - Spike isn't in the episode, Spike wasn't even a twinkle in Joss's eye at that point, Spike isn't mentioned in the review... and yet the comments to the review were full of Bangels bitching about how awful Spike was, and how much worse it would have been if he had been there, yadda yadda. And I'm lurking there thinking, "Are you guys sure you're not Spike fans? Because it seems like he's all you can talk about..."

[shapinglight]

Firstly, you're brave ever to even read that stuff. Secondly, yeah, they're way more obsessed with the character than the most obsessed Spike fan I've ever come across.

[laisserais]

I love your icon.

I'm here to testify that people hate historical stuff. True facts. I've had historical things bomb in two fandoms. And I mean, I kind of feel like I'm a middling writer; it's probably not that they were terrible, you know? The only common denominator for those fics was the historical angle. It's just not interesting to a lot of people. Weird!

[aka-zoe.livejournal.com]

I like historical stuff, but I am a history buff.

[shapinglight]

Me too, and likewise. :)

[shapinglight]

I love your icon.

It's good, isn't it? I know I still have an awful tendency to use adverbs too much, so using it reminds me to try not to. ;)

I'm here to testify that people hate historical stuff. True facts. I've had historical things bomb in two fandoms.

That is so weird. I don't get it. I honestly don't.

Though why I don't get it, I don't know. Every flashback in BtVS/AtS makes it clear Joss and his writers don't really get it either.

[ningloreth.livejournal.com]

By historical, do you mean an AU? I've recently been looking for GoT fics (Jon Snow het), and I've totally ignored anything labelled 'Modern AU', because it's not what I want, even if the stories are well written...

I do think that pairing is people's top priority. I write one unpopular pairing (Legolas/Eowyn) and have been trolled for it more than once(!), and one fairly popular pairing (Draco/Hermione). My D/H stories get a reasonable number of comments in archives dedicated to the pairing, but noticeably fewer than Draco/Harry stories when posted in general HP fests...

I used to read pairings I had no feelings for because the writers were on my f-list and I liked their work, but recently I've been finding that harder and harder to do. I'm not sure why, but I think it's partly because my f-list has grown and I just don't have the time to read everything I would like to read. If people read my stuff, though, I do try to reciprocate.

[shapinglight]

By historical, do you mean an AU? I've recently been looking for GoT fics (Jon Snow het), and I've totally ignored anything labelled 'Modern AU', because it's not what I want, even if the stories are well written...

I don't mean AU, no. In the Buffyverse context, historical stories are nearly always about the vampire characters and their nefarious doings in the bad old days.

Must say, I can't see the point of writing a story about Jon Snow that's a modern AU. How does the character even work divorced from his world? But of course that's true of all fandoms.

I do think that pairing is people's top priority

It does seem to be. I think my Spuffy stories have been most popular, though oddly, now I think of it, my story with the most hits is a Fanged Four story, featuring Darla, Drusilla, Spike and Angelus, and it's set in the past.

Possibly, I'm talking bollocks. Or possibly it's got so many hits because it was one of the first I put up. I don't know.

I used to read pairings I had no feelings for because the writers were on my f-list and I liked their work, but recently I've been finding that harder and harder to do.

I'm afraid I gave up doing that ages ago. I would rather read a not so well written story about a character/pairing I like than a very good one about a character/pairing I don't like, or an indifferent to.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Isn't it absolutely the worst when you write something that you *know* is really good, and that you worked very hard on, and ... it gets far less attention than something you tossed off without actually thinking about it too much? As for the hit counter on AO3, I sorta wish they didn't have it because back in the day, when fic was on LJ, you just didn't know how many people were and weren't reading. This is all to say: the reasons people read fanfic are just as many and varied as the reasons they write it, and in the end, I guess all we can do is just keep putting our best stuff out there, and hope that it reaches the people who will read it for the same reasons we wrote it, you know?

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, you can turn off or change the display of the hit counter in your preferences.

[shapinglight]

Isn't it absolutely the worst when you write something that you *know* is really good, and that you worked very hard on, and ... it gets far less attention than something you tossed off without actually thinking about it too much?

Yes, it is very annoying. I sometimes wonder if people can tell when something has been hard to write and it somehow makes it harder to read. Dunno.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

I think there is some truth to people not being as attracted to the historical stories. I don't know why, as I ADORE them. Weirdly, the one thing I have on AO3 that's received a disproportionate number of hits (almost 5,000!) is the Fanged Four/Gilbert and Sullivan one. I blame bots for the high hit count, though, as nothing else I've posted touches it, and the comments/kudos are in line with everything else. That said, I get far fewer hits for Spike/Dru stories, generally, so maybe Dru is a problem for folks? IDK. I had two Xmas stories posted at around the same time — a Spike/Harmony (250 hits) and a Spike/Dru (50 hits) — so that's the conclusion I've reached.

I'll be happy to get anything more on the Spike/Giles story, as you well know. Why isn't writing easier? Or why is it sometimes, but other times emphatically not? *sigh*

Poor summaries can be a real sign of lack of quality. I don't understand why some people fail at them so badly. What's so hard about stating the starting point and then shutting up? Urgh.

[aka-zoe.livejournal.com]

And use good grammar and punctuation, for the love of sweet baby Jesus!

[shapinglight]

I think there is some truth to people not being as attracted to the historical stories. I don't know why, as I ADORE them.

Same here. However, I suspect it's more usual not to. I just keep thinking about Giles telling Joyce how Buffy wasn't interested in history, and me thinking that it was Joss speaking through his mouth.

You're right also that Spike and Dru isn't that popular, but the two things might be related. Since we saw Spike/Dru end in what was the present day at the time, it means most stories about them (except AUs, I suppose) would of necessity be set in the past.

I'll be happy to get anything more on the Spike/Giles story, as you well know. Why isn't writing easier? Or why is it sometimes, but other times emphatically not? *sigh*

I wish I knew. :(

Poor summaries can be a real sign of lack of quality. I don't understand why some people fail at them so badly. What's so hard about stating the starting point and then shutting up? Urgh.

I don't know. Obviously, this story wasn't aimed at me, but that summary put me right off even glancing at it. And not just because it was Character X. I don't like it when people proclaim their outright hatred for any character/'ship in their summary.

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

People seem to read the shorter stories more readily.
Also, tagging. I got a ridiculous number of hits on one of my Arthur of the Britons stories - ten times what the others got - and I can only conclude it was because it was tagged "Hereward the Holy." Probably loads of history students happened upon it by googling!

[shapinglight]

People seem to read the shorter stories more readily.

This is true for the most part, but doesn't explain the very poor take up for that short historical. I suppose it's possibe everyone had already read it on LJ and couldn't be bothered to read it again?

I think I may have to go back and do a lot of tagging on my stories. I didn't really do any (mainly because I didn't understand the tagging system).

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

I think the pairing is a factor as well. I like Drusilla, but I find Darla irritating and have no positive feelings for her.

[shapinglight]

:(

Whereas she's one of my favourite characters in the 'verse.

[killerweasel.livejournal.com]

Out of curiosity, when you upload to AO3, do you change the date of your older stuff to the current date?

[shapinglight]

No, I post it with the original posting date. Do you think that's relevant?

[killerweasel.livejournal.com]

That'll explain your low hit counts. If someone searches for lets say 'Spike/Angel', they pop up by date posted. If you upload something from 2008, it isn't going to show up anywhere near the start of the list, like something from 2013 will.

What I do with the old ones, is I sometimes add an author's note saying 'originally posted on LJ 2004', just so they know it isn't really new, but it will show up as a new thing.

[shapinglight]

Heh! I never realised that. Thanks for the info.

I'll have to go back and do a lot of editing.

[chasingdemons.livejournal.com]

It often doesn't make sense to me who gets the most comments or hundreds of hits or whatever. Sometimes there doesn't seem to be a correlation with the quality of the work. But one element that might be coming into play is promotion. I don't read that much anymore, but back in the day, when I was looking for something to read, I might easily blow by a really great fic because the summary just didn't grab me. Then years later, when I finally read it and loved it, I was sorry I didn't realize the quality of the story. Yeah, maybe I should have investigated a little, but I'm probably like most readers, I want the work done for me. And at the time there were hundreds of fics to choose from. Just as there are now on AO3. I know you are loathe to toot your own horn, but maybe make sure your summaries really make the reader want to know more about it. Make sure all the characters and pairings that matter are listed. Make sure you have used all the tags that apply. Your work is a treasure. Maybe some people just don't know it.

[shapinglight]

You're right. I should work harder on my summaries. Do you think the ones I have on Ao3 are not that good? I also don't tag (because I don't understand their tagging system). I'll have to go back and do it.

It's not that I'm so desperate for more hits, but I should try and get my head around it. It's silly not to.

[chasingdemons.livejournal.com]

I haven't really paid attention to your summaries on Ao3, but I know how you talk about your stories in your posts, and I am guessing your summaries almost downplay the story. There's nothing wrong with working to get more hits. You've created something really special. In exchange for this gift you've given to everyone, you deserve to know it was appreciated. That's only natural and you needn't think of it as desperate.

[shapinglight]

I think when it comes to summaries, I have this tendency not to reveal too much, because I want there to be surprises for the reader.

But anyway, I'll go back and have a look and try and improve them. I'll also re-think my backdating of stories (didn't realise that was a problem, until killerweasel pointed it out), and tagging.

[lyr]

I can never predict or understand what readers are going to go for. It's always the stories I think won't get read that end up being my most popular. Go figure.

This didn't seem to me a good way to advertise a story (unless you only want other Character-X/Character-Y haters to read it). What do you think?
Well, it serves as a good warning, I guess. That way, you know to skate on by if you're a fan of that pairing.

[shapinglight]

It's always the stories I think won't get read that end up being my most popular. Go figure.

Same here. Very odd.

Well, it serves as a good warning, I guess. That way, you know to skate on by if you're a fan of that pairing.

Well, it certainly worked in that sense.

[borzaja.livejournal.com]

I apologize in advance for my English, that's not my native language.

Don't think that historical fiction scare readers away at Ao3. The thing is, those who know and love your fic read it on LJ or your site, most recs are linked to LJ too. And that leaves Ao3 only random readers who stumble upon your stories by tags. And Darla/Drusilla tag is not the most popular one.

Funny thing, my most favorite buffy fic is Family Reunion by one DeborahMM, and that made me interested in Darla (yes, not the show itself, but that fic). So I searched for recs, and found moscow watcher's rec of "Venus and Mars" linked to this LJ. I absolutely loved this story - both characterization and historical details are just perfect. But it took for me another few weeks to figure out that shapinglight, glassdarkly and DeborahMM is the same author)). Now I'm slowly but surely reading everything you've written and I'm never disappointed. You are marvelous!
So, what was I saying... Oh - that would be great if you add links to your other LJ's/sites/archieves/communities where your works could be found and add info about your aliases to your profiles.

[shapinglight]

Hello, and your English is fine, don't worry. Thank you for the nice things you said, and thanks very much for all the kudos you just left me on Ao3. Much appreciated.

I always forget that some of my stories 'escaped into the wild', as it were, before I changed my user name. It must be a little confusing for people, I agree, thinking Deborahmm is someone else. Was it on Just Rewards that you read it? I think that's the only site where my stories are still under that name (and only earlier ones).

[borzaja.livejournal.com]

Yes, it was Just Rewards. Guess, main source of confusement was broken link to your website in your profile there.

[shapinglight]

Ah. I did do some fiddling with my website a while back. Took a lot of stories down and locked them away on LJ.

Also, re your comment on Ao3 about my summary for The Worst Journey in the World, thanks. I'll try to change it to be more enticing for readers.

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

I finally got to reading this post, which has been sitting on a tab waiting for me to get my arse in gear.

I have no answers for the mystery of readers, but I went and had a look at my own stats. My multi-chapter fics all come out on top, but the real surprise was what was fifth on the list - one of my really old Spike/Tara fics. Everything else was hovering between 40 to 140. Bottom was the Spike/Dru ficlet.

[shapinglight]

It really is weird how offputting people seem to find Dru.