What You Want, Not What You Need
Aug. 23rd, 2013 03:00 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shapinglightWhich, yeah, does happen to be the title of the last arc in the Angel & Faith comic, but :shrug: it fits this post.
More musings within on how nothing is new in fandom, or among comics/TV show writers. Contains spoilers for True Blood and for the Buffy comics.
Joss Whedon (in)famously said that you have to give the fans not what they want, but what they need.
I understand what he was getting at (while at the same time thinking it rather presumptuous of him to think he knows what the fans need. I mean, it's not like they all need the same thing, is it? Unless he means they all need a bloody good lesson in being careful what they wish for?) but I'm not sure I entirely agree with it.
Or, I agree with it in the sense that you can't let fan opinion influence the story you have to tell (except that I suspect even Joss did many times, whether he'll admit it or not), or at least you have to pay lip-service to not letting it.
On the other hand, you don't want to lose your audience, do you? So, before you decide to ignore those fan opinions, you might at least want to know what they are. Not just to assume that you know.
This post is brought on by reading several interviews with the current showrunner of True Blood, in which he tries to allay fears about the return of Alexander Skarsgard's character, Eric Northman, in season 7, given that he appeared to die a stupid, comedy death in the final episode of season 6. Needless to say, a lot of people were quite upset (yes, I was too, though I'm not in the TB fandom, just a lurker) and the fact that Eric was stark, full-frontal naked when he 'died' didn't mollify them much at all. In fact, it's rather insulting for anyone to think that it would have (shades of the 'women only like Spike for his abs' argument).
Must say, I came out of reading these interviews with the impression that this showrunner was just irritated by this section of the audience ("Why can't they just wait till next summer to find out?"), and resented having to placate them. But, see, I think that's him not so much wanting to tell his story how he wants to tell it, but conflating the audience's needs and their wants. He thinks their need should be to be surprised by the story next year. Is Eric dead, or isn't he? However, the fans might actually need to have a reason for tuning in again.
All these, can't you wait till next summer? kinds of remarks are aimed at general viewers who maybe aren't as emotionally invested. But you want to keep the more fannish viewers watching too, don't you?
Then again, you don't want to go promising something you have no intention of delivering on, the way the Dark Horse PTBs (and Joss) did about Spike/Buffy prior to season 9 of the Buffy comic. Joss said Spike and Buffy were 'gold' (he meant the snappy dialogue exchanges, I suspect), and Scott Allie promised the Spuffy fans their interaction would be worth waiting for. Well, apart from a few nice moments in early issues, their interaction turned out to be (yet another) kick in the teeth for the Spuffy 'shippers, to add to the ones they got (repeatedly) in season 8. So obviously, Dark Horse, Joss et al would have been better off (or more honest) if they'd just told people re Spuffy and Spike's role to 'wait and see.' But of course they knew that section of fans was extremely pissed off after season 8 and wanted to persuade them to keep reading.
Hmm. Think I'm going around in circles here. I think what I'm trying to say is, don't presume you necessarily know what your audience needs, do some research. Then, if you appear to kill off a much-loved character, at least you'll be prepared for the following shitstorm.
And if you do promise fans things in your upcoming stories, make damn well sure you deliver.
Fool me once, etc, etc.
ETA: It is of course possible to f**k up all the above so much that you end up giving the audience/readership neither what they want nor what they need. I think the Buffy comics are a case in point.
ETA 2: And of course that applies to all fan groupings, not just Spuffies, Bangels and other assorted weird 'shippers.
I suspect the use of the phrase 'tune in' really dates me.
More musings within on how nothing is new in fandom, or among comics/TV show writers. Contains spoilers for True Blood and for the Buffy comics.
Joss Whedon (in)famously said that you have to give the fans not what they want, but what they need.
I understand what he was getting at (while at the same time thinking it rather presumptuous of him to think he knows what the fans need. I mean, it's not like they all need the same thing, is it? Unless he means they all need a bloody good lesson in being careful what they wish for?) but I'm not sure I entirely agree with it.
Or, I agree with it in the sense that you can't let fan opinion influence the story you have to tell (except that I suspect even Joss did many times, whether he'll admit it or not), or at least you have to pay lip-service to not letting it.
On the other hand, you don't want to lose your audience, do you? So, before you decide to ignore those fan opinions, you might at least want to know what they are. Not just to assume that you know.
This post is brought on by reading several interviews with the current showrunner of True Blood, in which he tries to allay fears about the return of Alexander Skarsgard's character, Eric Northman, in season 7, given that he appeared to die a stupid, comedy death in the final episode of season 6. Needless to say, a lot of people were quite upset (yes, I was too, though I'm not in the TB fandom, just a lurker) and the fact that Eric was stark, full-frontal naked when he 'died' didn't mollify them much at all. In fact, it's rather insulting for anyone to think that it would have (shades of the 'women only like Spike for his abs' argument).
Must say, I came out of reading these interviews with the impression that this showrunner was just irritated by this section of the audience ("Why can't they just wait till next summer to find out?"), and resented having to placate them. But, see, I think that's him not so much wanting to tell his story how he wants to tell it, but conflating the audience's needs and their wants. He thinks their need should be to be surprised by the story next year. Is Eric dead, or isn't he? However, the fans might actually need to have a reason for tuning in again.
All these, can't you wait till next summer? kinds of remarks are aimed at general viewers who maybe aren't as emotionally invested. But you want to keep the more fannish viewers watching too, don't you?
Then again, you don't want to go promising something you have no intention of delivering on, the way the Dark Horse PTBs (and Joss) did about Spike/Buffy prior to season 9 of the Buffy comic. Joss said Spike and Buffy were 'gold' (he meant the snappy dialogue exchanges, I suspect), and Scott Allie promised the Spuffy fans their interaction would be worth waiting for. Well, apart from a few nice moments in early issues, their interaction turned out to be (yet another) kick in the teeth for the Spuffy 'shippers, to add to the ones they got (repeatedly) in season 8. So obviously, Dark Horse, Joss et al would have been better off (or more honest) if they'd just told people re Spuffy and Spike's role to 'wait and see.' But of course they knew that section of fans was extremely pissed off after season 8 and wanted to persuade them to keep reading.
Hmm. Think I'm going around in circles here. I think what I'm trying to say is, don't presume you necessarily know what your audience needs, do some research. Then, if you appear to kill off a much-loved character, at least you'll be prepared for the following shitstorm.
And if you do promise fans things in your upcoming stories, make damn well sure you deliver.
Fool me once, etc, etc.
ETA: It is of course possible to f**k up all the above so much that you end up giving the audience/readership neither what they want nor what they need. I think the Buffy comics are a case in point.
ETA 2: And of course that applies to all fan groupings, not just Spuffies, Bangels and other assorted weird 'shippers.
I suspect the use of the phrase 'tune in' really dates me.
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no subject
Date: 2013-08-24 01:02 am (UTC)I like his body of work as a whole — aside from the comics and parts of Angel — though there are definitely some egregious bits of fail sprinkled throughout. His concerns about the over-powerful, exposing expectations for being paper thin, his willingness to look at the motivations of the "bad guys", liking comedy, liking ensemble — these all contribute to making work that will resonate with me. I'm not expecting perfection, just a contribution to pulling back the curtain on what I see as the failings of U.S./American society, preferably in a way that won't make me give up all hope. Sigh.
All that is not to say that I enjoy authorial arrogance and defensiveness. And I really don't like it when the "creators" treat the audience in a paternalistic way, which is exactly what I DON'T need from art, thank you very much. Look, if you want to tell a particular story, you should also be willing to own up to what you told. If you can't, then maybe you just need to admit that you didn't think that hard. Learn from the experience. Do better next time.
no subject
Date: 2013-08-27 10:02 am (UTC)But yes, even if Joss had retired to wherever and become a goat farmer when AtS ended, he would still have produced a seminal body of work.
I suspect he'll never better BtVS, like it or not.
He frustrates me, actually, because I'm always hoping for a repeat of BtVS from him, and he keeps failing to deliver. I got really excited watching season 1 of Dollhouse, because I thought I was going to get what I wanted. Then I watched Epitaph 1 and it all went to crap. :(
Basically, I know now that what Joss needs (and you're right that he means what he needs, not what the audience needs) isn't what I need.
He does still write some fun dialogue, though. And I do live in hope that he'll surprise me again one day.