November 5

[shapinglight]

Thought I ought to make a quick post since I changed my icon specially.

Happy November 5th, everyone.

So odd the things we celebrate and how their meaning changes over time.

Comments

[laisserais]

Happy Guy Fawkes day! I remember being sort of awed at the idea of him being reclaimed by Alan Moore.

[shapinglight]

Yes, and the V mask has become so iconic since then that I think a lot of people have simply forgotten what the original Gunpowder Plot was about.

Fawkes and his co-conspirators wanted religious freedom for Catholics, but they also wanted to destroy the Protestant monarchy and parliament and return England to the Catholic faith, which could be regarded as right wing terrorism, I suppose.

It was about liberty in a sense, but not about libertarianism, which is ironic, given that there's a right wing libertarian political blog over here called Guido Fawkes.

Alan Moore, meanwhile, meant something completely different with V.

[laisserais]

The English contention between Protestantism and Catholicism has always fascinated me. And sort of horrified me at the same time. Weirdly, we've imported that here, and it still thrives in tiny corners of the US. Where I grew up, I wasn't allowed to play with the neighbors, because their parents didn't like the fact that my stepdad was Catholic. O_o

[shapinglight]

Hooboy, really?

The Catholic/Protestant thing in mainland UK doesn't really exist any more, except in parts of Scotland, where it's got mixed up with football rivalry (in Glasgow, for instance, Rangers are the Protestant football team and Celtic are the Catholic one), and where you still get Orange marching bands etc. It's still pretty bad in Northern Ireland, though.

People in England and Wales these days mostly stand off to the side and watch this stuff in bewilderment now, though a few anomalies still remain, like the monarch not being allowed to marry a Catholic.

[diebirchen.livejournal.com]

"Gunpowder, treason, and plot!"

[shapinglight]

Exactly. :)

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Must be time for (yet another) Attack the Block rewatch.

[shapinglight]

Surely it's always time? :)

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Discussion with a colleage the other day:

"So what is it the British celebrate on the 5th of November, anyway?"
"Something about a failed terrorist attack on the Parliament building a few hundred years ago."
"Are they for it or against it?"
"Against it, I think. ...Of course, they celebrate it by blowing shit up, so, y'know."

I hope people are keeping an eye on Russell Brand.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

LOL -

[shapinglight]

"Against it, I think. ...Of course, they celebrate it by blowing shit up, so, y'know."

And by burning Catholics in effigy. Don't forget that one.

I hope people are keeping an eye on Russell Brand.

Ah, he's probably too disenchanted to bother.

[brutti-ma-buoni.livejournal.com]

I believe he's marching on Parliament, actually. So, um, yay. Historic awareness among celebs.

[shapinglight]

I think he rather jumped on the fact that Paxo admitted he also loathes politicians and once failed to vote himself.

[shapinglight]

Actually, I was wrong. More from Russell Brand in the Guardian today.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/russell-brand-democratic-system-newsnight

[tripleransom.livejournal.com]

And by burning Catholics in effigy.

Only in effigy? Standards are falling everywhere.

~Absolutely just kidding!

[shapinglight]

Actually, I think some people have taken to burning bankers in effigy. Seems more in tune with my icon.

[ex_peasant441]

Well considering what they've changed from, I'm quite glad the meaning has changed ;)

But yes, happy Bonfire Night :D

(soaking wet down here but a few keen types are out letting of bangs).

Remind me what the film in your icon is (I've only ever seen mashed up clips of it on Guido Fawkes's website).

[ex_peasant441]

I've found it: V for Vendetta. Apparently its a comic as well, which is presumably how you know it.

And reading the synopsis - yes, funny how things have changed. From terrorist to freedom fighter. Exactly what every terrorist dreams of ;)

[shapinglight]

Not really. No terrorist thinks they're a terrorist.

[ex_peasant441]

But surely they must be aware they are being called terrorists by other people, even if they don't believe it of themselves. So unless they are even more perverse than I currently imagine, they would surely hold it a triumph to have the general populace switch from considering them terrorists to considering them freedom fighters, because it would mean that they had won the general populace over and there more or less won.


Anyway, I saw someone say that Fawkes threw himself off the scaffold so his neck broke and he was dead before the rest happened. I don't know if that is actually true but it makes me feel slightly less squeamish about the whole thing so I am going to tell myself it could be. He was a terrorist, but nobody deserves what happened to him.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

While over here - it's just Election Day. ;-)

[shapinglight]

Hmm. Ironic really.

ETA: Also, I see the Tea Party candidates did quite badly and have yet again taken this as a sign that they need to be even more extreme.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yep, Chris Christie's win in NJ was a huge slam. He's a moderate Republican who has basically told the Tea Party that they are nitwits.

[shapinglight]

Yeah, they hate him, don't they, for actually saying something nice(ish) about Obama.