A writing Whinge (because I haven't done one of those for, oh, at least a week and a half)

[shapinglight]

to misquote Joyce from School Hard, and with further mention of various thoughts I've had during my BtVS rewatch.

And I would've put all of that in the title of my post, but LJ wouldn't let me.

Anyway, yes. I'm supposed to be writing something for seasonal_spuffy at the beginning of May, but have no ideas whatsoever. I suppose I should ask for prompts. Prompts, anyone?



I'm wondering when it was I became primarily a Spuffy writer (which has sort of happened by default, must admit, because even before the Buffy comics stomped all over the very idea, I didn't think Buffy meant the ILY in Chosen - not that she has to have meant it for people to be able to write Spuffy, but still...).

I think it must be down to sb_fag_ends as much as anything. I try (though I failed miserably last year) to produce at least one drabble or ficlet for the comm every month, and my fic ideas are so thin on the ground now that I don't have any left over for seasonal_spuffy.

:Gloom:

It's not just something for seasonal_spuffy I'm struggling with writing either. I had every intention of getting on with my abandoned Spangel story while S was away last weekend, but ended up writing a measly 1500 words that didn't advance the plot much at all.

I started the story in 2007 (I think). The part I'd already written had some bits and pieces of slashy stuff in it. I think I'm probably going to have to remove them wholesale.

This is because I'm finding it very difficult to even entertain the idea of Spangel these days, thanks to the comics showing the relationship between Spike and Angel as nine parts raging hatred and one part gay panic (on both their parts, but especially Spike's), not to mention when re-watching the Spike/Angel interaction in BtVS season 2 I couldn't for the life of me see where the dynamic between them, as so often written in old slash fics, ever came from in the first place.

There aren't many of the old slash writers around these days, and the ones that are're probably not on my flist, but if anyone has an opinion on the subject I would be quite interested to know what they think that dynamic was based on back in the day (you know, the sire/childe stuff, which I freely admit to enjoying a lot at one time, not to mention writing it myself). Was it based solely on the fact that Spike originally said Angel was his sire and people just took that and ran with it, and then people read their stories and a huge body of fanon developed which lots of people confused with canon, or what?

Returning to the subject of me not being able to write anything, sadly, much though I'd like to put it down to disillusionment with fanon tropes, I'm afraid it's far more down to me just being out of ideas. I can't work out how the plot of this Spangel fic should go forward to the end I envisaged for it (at least I do have an end envisaged), and generally writing is just all hard and stuff and makes my brain hurt. :(

:More gloom:

Comments

[ningloreth.livejournal.com]

You ponder the most interesting questions!

Thinking about it...

It's not Buffy, and it's not slash, but my main ship is totally non-canon -- in fact, the characters never speak to each other, in the books or in the films (though Legolas twice speaks sympathetically about Eowyn in the books, and there is a moment in the second film where they are shown standing side-by-side, which, given film conventions, was enough to make some people think that they would 'end up together'). Despite the lack of interaction, though, I still feel that Legolas & Eowyn have chemistry, both when other people write them and when I write them.

I think it's partly a match-making impulse -- we see two people who seem suited (physically, emotionally, intellectually), feel they should be together, and introduce them. (Luckily, writing fanfiction isn't meddling with real lives!) For me, the interesting question is why are women so inclined to put two men together? They often say it gives them the chance to explore a relationship that doesn't conform to m/f stereotypes, but that doesn't explain why they don't write a m/f relationship that doesn't conform to m/f stereotypes!

I've always felt that non-canon shipping is about delving beneath the surface of canon and building a coherent (secret) alternative but, these days, I've noticed that fans are more and more anxious for their ships to become canon, and will try to pressurise the program makers. Maybe it's two different types of fan -- the fic writers who are content to fantasise, and activists who want representation?

I do think that what you read in fanfiction gets fed back into canon, in the sense that it makes you interpret interactions between the characters in ways that someone who hasn't been primed wouldn't. And that if, for some reason, you stop believing in the relationship, you lose the goggles.

[shapinglight]

I do think that what you read in fanfiction gets fed back into canon, in the sense that it makes you interpret interactions between the characters in ways that someone who hasn't been primed wouldn't. And that if, for some reason, you stop believing in the relationship, you lose the goggles.

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty much happened to me with regard to Spangel. Spuffy is different. I may not believe that Buffy meant it in the romantic sense that Spike meant it when she told Spike she loved him, but I do think that she could come to love him further down the line. There's possibility there.

As for non-canon 'ships, I've written plenty of them (mainly slash pairings, Spike/Giles is a particular favourite) and it is all about the potential, I think. It's fun putting characters together who never were together in the show/book/film and seeing what comes out. A good writer can make you believe in it, at least while you're reading.

For me, the interesting question is why are women so inclined to put two men together?

There's a simple answer to this - two hot guys, why wouldn't you put them together?

I'm sure there are lots of far more complicated answers too. For me, for instance, the simple answer isn't reason enough to do it. It's as much to do with the fluid nature of the Buffyverse as it is about the characters. By which I mean, if I was writing in a different fandom I suspect I would probably just write het or gen. Other people would have other reasons.

[ningloreth.livejournal.com]

two hot guys, why wouldn't you put them together?

Yes, other people have said that to me, and it's made me realise that for me a man is only attractive if he finds women attractive so, for me, two guys together may be moving, but it's not sexy!

...if I was writing in a different fandom I suspect I would probably just write het or gen.

Do you think it's James Marsters? He seems to be one of those people who can seduce anyone he comes into contact with (and he's sharp and witty).

[shapinglight]

Do you think it's James Marsters? He seems to be one of those people who can seduce anyone he comes into contact with (and he's sharp and witty).

He is, but for me it's not so much James himself as the character of Spike. Though I appreciate that, if played by a different actor, I probably wouldn't feel the same about the character.

But if it were James, as opposed to Spike, I'd read RPF, and, apart from one story long ago that I thought was really good (two LJ friends of mine were tag-team writing it), I just don't care for RPF.

[ningloreth.livejournal.com]

No, I don't like RPF either (unless the P is historical).

I was actually thinking of Captain John from Torchwood. I'm sure he must have a huge slash fanbase.

[shapinglight]

Not so much as you might think. The main slash pairing in Torchwood is Jack/Ianto, which people were very attached to. As far as I can see, when RTD killed of Ianto, he pretty much killed off the Torchwood fandom.

[ningloreth.livejournal.com]

I'd forgotten all about Ianto! (I never understood why he was popular).

[shapinglight]

Me neither. I think maybe for a lot of people they just liked the fact that Jack/Ianto was 'open.' They didn't have to subsist on hints and subtext.

Ironically, hints and subtext rather than open acknowlegement may well be why the BtVS slash 'ships (Spander, Spangel) are still going relatively strong.