Buffy season 10 no 14

[shapinglight]

Spoilers behind cut. And can I just say again I am now totally and completely thrown by these comics. Not because they're good, bad or indifferent (this issue definitely verges towards indifferent, or even bad - it could have been so much more interesting than it is), but because it looks like Spuffy is a real, genuine thing in them. I just never thought I'd see that in anything with Joss Whedon's name on it (even though he probably hasn't had time to think about the comics for months).

Spoilers behind cut.



Again, the issue is very talky. It's just Gage's style, I guess. I remember A&F season 9 being quite talky too (though I think it was less noticeable in that series because there weren't so many characters).

It starts with Willow and Giles saying that the only way to find out who is doing the killings (as seen in the last issue) is for someone to enter Spike's mind in astral form when he sleeps. Spike is about to ask Xander when Willow says that's no good. If the person's astral projection is detected and killed, they could die in real life. So it has to be someone strong, which is how it ends up being Buffy.

Spike's not happy about this, for reasons that you could guess - ie. that Buffy will see his horrible past and that seeing it is different to just knowing about it. He's also worried that she'll see what he's really like inside as a person and not like him. Buffy promises not to pry unduly.

She then gives him a kiss for luck, at which point Xander sticks his hand up and says "That's what Princess Leia said to Luke, and it turned out they were..." Dawn hits him.

This is about the only even remotely funny line.

Buffy and Spike go to sleep. The preview pages, during which Buffy learns that Spike loves her in a sort of messy, complicated, human way (at least, that's how I read it, not that she didn't believe he really loved her until then). She's not happy about him having had sex with Harmony, even though Willow points out they weren't together then. But Willow tells her to examine the way Spike sees Harmony (because she's sort of seeing through his eyes), and then the way he looks at Buffy.

According to Rebekah Isaacs Spike sees Buffy as a sort of glowy flower maiden. Hmm.

Anyway, Buffy then sees the murders and follows a trail of shadow that leads from them into Spike's past. Willow warns her to be careful. Buffy sees the moment Spike got his soul back. Buffy makes a big thing of saying that he chose it, for her (okay, as a Spuffy 'shipper, I'm actually getting a bit embarrassed at this point - and suspicious. Maybe we're being made fun of all along?)

Buffy goes back further, but we just get glimpses - a very badly drawn punk Spike killing Nikki, Spike with LMPTM hair etc. Buffy's upset that he's killing and enjoying it. Willow reminds her that's not who he is now. Buffy says she's focused on the target and will ignore everything else.

Buffy sees the moment Drusilla sired William, then finds herself dragged down through Drusilla. Now, all she can see is Drusilla's memories, but we don't get to linger over those. Instead, we see the moment Angelus killed Drusilla, then Angel being killed by Darla, then the Master, then Buffy appears to hit the ground. At the same time, she loses mental contact with Willow.

Suddenly, she finds herself confronted by a big, red nasty monster with lots of bony claws and spines (nothing like a vampire, not even an uber vamp). It welcomes her to hell and tells her its name is Archaeus. Then it tries to squash Buffy like a bug. Buffy yells to Willow for help.

The next thing we know, we're back outside Spike's mind and Buffy and Spike are waking up. Buffy escaped Archaeus by 'pushing the other way' and breaking through the illusion. While she was doing that, she learned where Archaeus is now.

Well, that was lame, IMO. A sort of 'with one leap Jack was free' sort of deal.

So anyway, it turns out that Mini!Giles knows who Archaeus is. He directly sired the Master, so he's Spike's great-great-grandsire. According to Mini!Giles, the leading theory among Watchers (which we're hearing for the first time ever) is that when a vampire sires someone part of the same demon as the sire enters the new vampire. So, the Master, Darla, Angel, Dru and Spike all have essence of the same demon in them, and it's Archaeus, which is why Spike saw himself killing the people in the previous issue.

Buffy's reaction is to say, "Angel-and Spike? I literally fell in love with the same guy twice."

Which is nice for the Spuffy 'shippers too. She finally said the 'L' word. I'm not quite sure what it does for the Spangel 'shippers. Does it mean that if Angel and Spike are in love with each other, it's just narcissism?

My head hurts.

Actually, Mini!Giles debunks that theory slightly (which is just as well because it doesn't make any sense) by saying that it's more complicated than that. A vampire is "a combination of the demon's essence, and the human host's persona...often its darkest aspects. But yes...it now appears that with very powerful demons like Archaeus, there is a common thread...and that, to a degree, they can exert influence on their 'descendants.'"

Back to not making any sense again. If Archaeus is a demon, how come his offspring are vampires?

And that's the least of it.

Okay, to finish in brief. They go to fight Archaeus, who is, for some reason, hanging around the port of San Francisco. Archaeus has minions, who appear to be New!Vamps because they look like bats. He can also cast spells, but he's not on Willow's level so he stabs her with one of his spiny things. Buffy slashes him with the scythe, and Archaeus orders Spike to kill her. Spike says that it's disgusting enough that Archaeus is part of him, but he has his soul, which trumps everything. But Archaeus slashes Buffy's arm, saying there's nothing quite like Slayer blood, is there? Spike hesitates. Buffy tells him he can fight it. Spike tries. Buffy tells him he's been through worse and Archaeus can't make him do something he doesn't want to do. The next moment, Spike's vamped out and grabbed Buffy.

I don't think this was a very good issue. The last three were much better. Disappointing. The journey through Spike's mind could have been so much more interesting and packed so much more punch. Also, Buffy's escape from Archaeus-in-Spike's-mind was lame. Also, also, I want to get back to Ghost!Anya, who is a hell of a lot more interesting than some lame demon who sired the Master.

Meh(ish)!

On the other hand, I just read this month's Angel and Faith and was so bored by it I have nothing whatsoever to say.

So there's that.

ETA: And I've now read the Buffy comic again, and it doesn't seem so bad this time around. Hmm.

Comments

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

I guess it'll turn out that he doesn't sire them like vamps do. Maybe via those stinger things?

But how are Spike and Angel able to see him do it and the people are turning into vamps? It's early, but the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. Not to mention they keep rewriting the vamp origin myth. First it was the last vamp to leave the dimension, then it's Malokor who never left, now it's Archaeus.

Pbbblt. And RI's outfits are horrible.

[shapinglight]

It's possible, I suppose, that it'll turn out the Master and his line aren't descended from Maloker at all. But if that's the case, and this Archaeus isn't a vampire (because he doesn't at all look like one) why are they even vampires?

I didn't really pay attention to the outfits. I did think Spike's imaginary Buffy was a bit too shampoo commercial blonde skipping through the daisies - though of course in STSP Crazy Basement Spike does tell her she's glowing.

ETA: From what I've seen on other boards and here, most Spuffy 'shippers liked this issue. I think for me the problem with it (well, one of the problems with it) is that it's neither fish nor fowl. The previous arc was all about relationships. Fair enough. I liked it, and thought it did what it seems to have set out to do, and though the writing wasn't subtle at times I didn't think it was horrible. This issue seems unsure whether it's more relationship stuff or advancing the plot and as a consequence seems to have done less of both than any issue of the previous arc.

I don't know if that even makes sense.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

that it'll turn out the Master and his line aren't descended from Maloker at all.

That makes sense. Well, not really, but you know what I mean. Archaeus is an old one, I guess. Maloker's brother or something, maybe. But considering he seems to lack an actual mouth, much less fangs, I don't get it.

I did think Spike's imaginary Buffy was a bit too shampoo commercial blonde skipping through the daisies - though of course in STSP Crazy Basement Spike does tell her she's glowing.

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of that. Too flower-holding maiden, maybe? It's probably nothing. I'd just never saw Spike seeing her that way. Glowing, yeah...while beating things.

About the outfits, I meant Buffy's dress over leggings (jeggings?) and weird hair. Also Willow's pants.

ETA: Of course Spuffies are going to like it. As Bangels are going to hate it even though they probably won't admit publicly.

[kikimay]

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of that. Too flower-holding maiden, maybe? It's probably nothing. I'd just never saw Spike seeing her that way. Glowing, yeah...while beating things.

I think Isaacs tried to convey the glowing factor with the flowers too. Like: look at this actual ray of sunshine! The flowers add innocence and beauty to the general composition. I think that Spike kinda sees Buffy that way, maybe not with the flowers and not in a so innocent way, but he pictures her in white (In the Showtime fantasy, in his sexual fantasy in S5. He tends to imagine her wearing white, which I think it's symbolical)


About the outfits, I meant Buffy's dress over leggings (jeggings?) and weird hair. Also Willow's pants.

Right there with you on the Buffy's style issue. I love Willow's style though and even the pants, yes. XD I think she's adorable in a Willowy kinda way.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

but he pictures her in white (In the Showtime fantasy, in his sexual fantasy in S5. He tends to imagine her wearing white, which I think it's symbolical)

Which? In OoMM, she's wearing the same outfit as she wore in the episode. In Showtime, it's just a sort of a plain dress. Sorta light-gray more than white. It's a nice enough drawing. I don't think it really means anything. The glowing part is probably the only important thing.

I don't usually mind her Willow. But...those pants. If they even are pants. I think they might be tights. Those things are something out of professional wrestling.

[shapinglight]

Archaeus is an old one, I guess. Maloker's brother or something, maybe. But considering he seems to lack an actual mouth, much less fangs, I don't get it.

No, me neither. As I said to rahirah, I don't mind some sort of exceptionalism among vampires for the Master and his line, if that's the direction they want to go. I'd just like Archaeus to look a bit more like he could be their ancestor.

I'd just never saw Spike seeing her that way. Glowing, yeah...while beating things.

I think that's more how I imagined him seeing her too. This way seems too William-y. But artist's choice, I suppose. If Isaacs does another Q&A I might ask her about it.

I've just re-read the issue, btw, and it didn't seem as bad this time.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

I'd just like Archaeus to look a bit more like he could be their ancestor.

Yeah, he looks more like a spider than a vampire. At least Maloker was vaguely bat-like.

I've just re-read the issue, btw, and it didn't seem as bad this time.

It's not horrible. It's as you said, kinda of a waste. For instance, what I thought would bug me is Buffy fretting over his past deeds, which they do and immediately say she knows it's not him. Which is fine. Except why waste time saying it, you know?

I wonder how it'll go. If they go with The Strain (or Lost Boys) model, killing Archaeus will kill all his line including Spike and Angel. Drama!

[shapinglight]

Ooh, I didn't know that.

That could very well be a way of nixing Spuffy and Bangel for good, couldn't it? Can't kill Archaeus because Angel and Spike (and Dru, I suppose, but nobody probably cares about her) will die too, but if Archaeus is still alive Buffy can't really trust either of them.

Hmm.

For instance, what I thought would bug me is Buffy fretting over his past deeds, which they do and immediately say she knows it's not him. Which is fine. Except why waste time saying it, you know?

Yeah, there's an awful lot of stating the obvious in the issue. I know people complained about it in the last arc, but I didn't think it was so much of a problem myself.

Giving Gage the benefit of the doubt, it is possible he's been told to write as if people reading had never seen the show. But it seems a little unlikely.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

but if Archaeus is still alive Buffy can't really trust either of them.

If he's an old one, he can't be killed anyway, but rules have never stopped these guys before.

I don't know. Something has to happen and I think one or both of them will end up human. Seems like Spuffy survives this and the next arc, though. The solicitation for 17 has her trying to ease his insecurities.

[shapinglight]

Well, the next arc is probably three issues (16-18) as that's how long Angel is absent from his own book. So who knows what will happen in 18?

I'm certainly expecting a Spuffy implosion a lot less than I was, but I'm pretty sure Angel turning up is going to make Buffy realise she still has very strong feelings for him too.

Which I'm fine with. I just wanted some acknowledgement that she had any feelings for Spike at all, and I've got that. Back to being quite happy to share, however it all pans out.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

but I'm pretty sure Angel turning up is going to make Buffy realise she still has very strong feelings for him too.

I don't think it's something they'd have her realize. After all, it's irrelevant. It's not like they can be together. Well, they could. I'd be hard-pressed to believe Willow or Giles can't just slap a soul in him permanently, but we don't talk about these things.

I'd say it'll come down to killing him kills them, but they have the other 3 bad guys to take care of in 20-30. Probably another big build-up, then clap your hands and it's done sort of thing.

[shapinglight]

Yeah, probably. I suppose it all depends on whether there's to be a season 11.

Which there still could be. Sales figures for the comics may have fallen drastically (hard copies anyway), but it's still Dark Horse's second best selling title.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

True, but there is another 15 issues to fall. It might be their second-best seller, but it probably has the most expensive license. They're raising the price another 50 cents.

[shapinglight]

I don't mind if this is the last season. I just wish I could be sure that Joss won't come back and write the last issue, or something. I know whatever he does, I'd probably hate it.

[singedbylife.livejournal.com]

Well, I enjoyed it. Thought it was fastpaced, funny and again with that feel of scooby friendship that I liked in season 7. And I enjoyed the Spuffy parts which also felt true to me in the two steps forward, one back way that is Spuffy to me.

[shapinglight]

I do seem to be terribly out of step with the majority of Spuffy 'shippers about this issue.

I mean, I don't hate it, or anything. I just think it could have been better if it had had more edge.

Or something. I dunno.

[rahirah]

I suppose that if an Old One created vampires way back when, Archaeus did the same thing when he created the Master? Maybe that explains why the Master went bat-faced relatively young...

(I don't know why they couldn't have reserved Maloker for this plotline, though, instead of wasting it earlier.)

[shapinglight]

Yeah, it does seem a bit redundant to have two originators of vampires.

Not that mind some kind of exceptionalism for the Master and his line, if that's the direction they want to go.

[kikimay]

I enjoyed the issue, maybe more then the previous ones? I agree that the journey inside Spike's mind could have been more compelling and complex, but apparently these comics are just like that. They do complex stories in the simplest possible way.

I like Archaeus and the fact that he links the Fanged Four together. He was like a virus? This virus is transmitted between people but it's essentially the same. (Okay, maybe it doesn't work like that in actual medicine. I know nothing) As a Spangel shipper it doesn't bother me really. I've always felt that Angel and Spike were mirrors to each others and the Fanged Four dynamic always seemed to be very incesty. Plus I think that the parallels between Spuffy and Bangel are clear, right?

As Spuffy I went all fangirly. Okay, I know it's lame, but they are so adorable!

(I also think they kinda exaggerated some points. Like Buffy saying "he went through this FOR MEEE!" I think she already knew, no? But ultimately we waited for so long to have Buffy and Spike so connected to each other and so understanding of each other so you won't hear me complain. Plus the kiss. Did I already mention it? So cute. Awwwwww. <3)

I still don't understand Buffy's weird fashion sense. What's happening to her? WHAT WITH THAT HAIR? I love Willow's tho.

The art was not at its best but I loved the panel with William and Dru. I just think that young innocent William is the sexiest guy ever.

[shapinglight]

I enjoyed the issue, maybe more then the previous ones?

I kind of loved the previous arc, even though I don't usually like that style of comic book arc.

Have to admit also that I just re-read the latest issue and it seems better second time around (though I still think Rebekah doesn't draw Spike that well). It's also - despite all the Spuffy stuff - very unclear if their relationship is going to survive the current arc. We'll see.

I'd like Archaeus better if he looked different, I think. I don't understand why he looks the way he does.

As a Spangel shipper it doesn't bother me really. I've always felt that Angel and Spike were mirrors to each others and the Fanged Four dynamic always seemed to be very incesty.

It doesn't bother me either. My remark was meant to be tongue in cheek really.

(I also think they kinda exaggerated some points. Like Buffy saying "he went through this FOR MEEE!" I think she already knew, no?

Oh, she definitely already knew. I think this may be my problem. I feel like Gage is overstating it (or over-egging the pudding, as we say) to the point where it almost feels like parody, and it makes me suspicious that Spuffy 'shippers are being made fun of.

I doubt that's the case (the comic is usually just what it appears to be) but it almost feels like it.

Re: Buffy's fashion sense - I paid more attention to it on reading this time, and have to say I've no problems with it. Probably because if I were ten years younger I'd wear it myself.

Though of course that's probably why you and infinitewhale, being so much younger than me, don't like it. ;)

[double_dutchess]

I'd like Archaeus better if he looked different, I think. I don't understand why he looks the way he does.

I think he looks a bit like Angel's "pure demon" that came out in Pylea:

In fact, that is what originally caused me to speculate he might be the ancestor of Spike and Angel's demon, based on the cover and solicitations of issue #16. (Which, to my utter surprise, turned out to be correct!)

[shapinglight]

I think he looks a bit like Angel's "pure demon" that came out in Pylea:

Ah, okay. It's so long since I saw that arc that I'd forgotten. I'd persuaded myself that Angel had looked more like Maloker. But you're right.

Thanks. :)

[double_dutchess]

Buffy sees the moment Spike got his soul back. Buffy makes a big thing of saying that he chose it, for her (okay, as a Spuffy 'shipper, I'm actually getting a bit embarrassed at this point - and suspicious. Maybe we're being made fun of all along?)

I haven't read issue #14 yet, but I know what you mean -- I already had that in the previous issue. But I'm not sure if it's about the Spuffy shippers. It might also be a very heavy-handed way of trying to convince the non-shippers and Bangels that Spike really is suitable relationship material for Buffy. (Not that I think this will work, and definitely not for the latter category.)

[shapinglight]

Oh no, nothing would persuade them.

Or, as some of them now think Buffy's character has been ruined forever by this, maybe they just think they deserve each other and Angel is 'too good' for Buffy now? Who knows?

[quinara]

I think I've worked out why I feel like a massive curmudgeon these issues... Is it particularly clear why we might be rooting for Spuffy, apart from that it's what the characters want (a good enough reason as any, I suppose)? I mean, do they have any witty banter (even un-witty), or is it all slightly overwrought angsty/cutesy dialogue? Because I'm not really hearing anything that's selling me this as a Spuffy relationship that makes for entertaining reading in itself, rather than something where you have to supply the reasons for liking these characters in the first place. I mean, dare I say it (after all that time spent arguing against the same accusation in S7), but this Spike sounds like a bit of a wet blanket...

[shapinglight]

There were some cute 'morning after' moments at the beginning of the previous issue, which I really enjoyed. Then it all got taken over a bit by melodrama.

So, it's hard to say.

If Buffy and Spike get through this and are still together, then go back to the banter-y way they were around each other in earlier issues, it won't be too bad, I think.

But that's not likely to happen until at least no 19. Ie. September.