Buffy season 10 no 18
Aug. 19th, 2015 11:57 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shapinglightSpoilers behind cut.
Plot-wise, there's really not an awful lot to say about this issue.
The gang fight Achaeus and his new!vamps while trying to open the mysterious box with the portal in it. Ultimately, they defeat him thanks to to Spike snapping Angel out of his Archaeus-control by pretending to be Angel's father. Buffy, Spike and Angel then fight Archaeus as a team while Willow strips the layers of magical defences from the mysterious box until there are so few left Buffy can break it open with the scythe. There's a big 'fwash' and Archaeus is gone. 'Took it on the lam,' Willow says. (Is that a thing people say?) The bits of the artifact, meanwhile, are being collected by a bunch of walking hands, courtesy of the Sculptor.
(Sidebar: I would just like to say that I think Angel's dad gets an unwarranted bad press. Yes, he's disappointed in Liam, but then Liam is a waste of space. Most dads - especially disciplinarian eighteenth century ones- would have been disappointed too. Also, Liam's dad is genuinely upset when Liam dies. Also, also, what snaps Angel out of his funk is Spike telling him that by doing what Archaeus tells him, Angel is just doing what his father tells him - 'dancing on a string to win his approval' - and, though we admittedly saw very little of their relationship, about the last thing we ever see Liam doing is trying to win his dad's approval. End sidebar.)
Back at Buffy's, D'Hoffryn tells everyone off for letting the Evil Three Stooges (Soul Glutton, Mistress, Sculptor) collect the bits of artifact - the Restless Door, it's called - which means, if they can reconstruct it, they can open portals all over the place and cause havoc. Buffy and co have made the world more dangerous, not less. Xander suggests they write a new rule in the book to make the Restless Door stop working. Mini!Giles says that won't work because it's not earthly, but D'Hoffryn thinks they can write things in the book that will mitigate its effect. Ultimately, though, they have to defeat the Evil Stooges.
Basically, as I read it, Archaeus himself is no longer important in the Buffy book. He's off to A&F (not, as far as I can tell, as a passenger in Angel's head. He's just making his own way to London).
The book ends with a lot of goodbyes. Xander and Angel are cool now. Xander - looking at Buffy binding up Spike's wounds- reckons he and Angel have more in common than he thought (Dawn is walking away from them at this point). Angel says goodbye to Spike. Says he can tell Spike cares for Buffy and as long as he acts like it, they're good. The minute Spike hurts her...
Spike interrupts to say, "I'll hold you to that." They shake hands.
Angel says goodbye to Buffy. Buffy hopes they've got to the point where they can be part of each others' lives again. Angel says all he wanted was for her to be happy. Since it seems she is, he can live with it. Buffy hugs him and gives him a kiss on the cheek.
Willow is to drive Angel to the airport. She says, "That was really big of you. Couldn't have been easy."
Angel: Wasn't that hard. It's not like it'll ever last.
Willow: Angel, I adore you (you do?), but if you even think of trying to cause problems for them...
Angel: I wouldn't do that but I don't have to. You were right (see previous issue). Immortals don't really change. Soul or not, he's still Spike. He fixates on someone. Decides they're gonna solve all his problems. Give his life meaning. Make him stop hating himself. But they don't, 'cause they can't. And in the end, he drives 'em away, confirming what he believes about himself. Letting him wallow in self-pity for a while. Then start all over again.
Willow: That sounds awfully...
Angel: Harsh? I know. And like I'm rooting for it to happen. Let's be honest - part of me is. Another part would really like to think there's a chance for guys like us. But I've lived a long time and never seen a happy ending. My experience, it's always the happiness that goes.
Okay, that all sounds very clever, and there is some truth in it. But there's also a lot that's not - starting with the whole 'Angel hasn't changed since 1922' thing in the previous issue. As for Spike, though Angel's right that unsouled Spike has a habit (well, he's done it twice in 120 years) of putting women on pedastals, I thought the whole point of Gischler's dull, dull, dull Spike mini series was to make him learn that he can't put the entire burden of his happiness on someone else's head.
Then again, if the whole 'immortals can't change' is the schtick they're going with as a way of breaking up Spike and Buffy, Spike will just be like Angel and be learning the same lesson over and over and it will never stick. But at least when Spike forgets his lessons, he only hurts himself and a few other people, when Angel does, lots of people die and a lot of stuff goes boom. ;)
So, this may be a big pointer to the way they're going to end Spuffy (basically, self-sabotage on Spike's part). If season 10 is the last season, maybe it'll end with a big scooby group-hug (would be par for the course with this comic) and Spike and Angel walking off into the sunset together, arguing as they go about which one of them is Rick and which is Louis.
All I can say is, I hope Buffy gets some input into this, rather than it being done to, or for, her.
The letters on the letters page are all Spuffy-positive. Someone even points out how it would be a new thing in the Buffyverse for someone to have a stable, mature relationship which doesn't end and where no one dies.
Not that I'm expecting that. Ever. Especially not if there is a season 11.
Plot-wise, there's really not an awful lot to say about this issue.
The gang fight Achaeus and his new!vamps while trying to open the mysterious box with the portal in it. Ultimately, they defeat him thanks to to Spike snapping Angel out of his Archaeus-control by pretending to be Angel's father. Buffy, Spike and Angel then fight Archaeus as a team while Willow strips the layers of magical defences from the mysterious box until there are so few left Buffy can break it open with the scythe. There's a big 'fwash' and Archaeus is gone. 'Took it on the lam,' Willow says. (Is that a thing people say?) The bits of the artifact, meanwhile, are being collected by a bunch of walking hands, courtesy of the Sculptor.
(Sidebar: I would just like to say that I think Angel's dad gets an unwarranted bad press. Yes, he's disappointed in Liam, but then Liam is a waste of space. Most dads - especially disciplinarian eighteenth century ones- would have been disappointed too. Also, Liam's dad is genuinely upset when Liam dies. Also, also, what snaps Angel out of his funk is Spike telling him that by doing what Archaeus tells him, Angel is just doing what his father tells him - 'dancing on a string to win his approval' - and, though we admittedly saw very little of their relationship, about the last thing we ever see Liam doing is trying to win his dad's approval. End sidebar.)
Back at Buffy's, D'Hoffryn tells everyone off for letting the Evil Three Stooges (Soul Glutton, Mistress, Sculptor) collect the bits of artifact - the Restless Door, it's called - which means, if they can reconstruct it, they can open portals all over the place and cause havoc. Buffy and co have made the world more dangerous, not less. Xander suggests they write a new rule in the book to make the Restless Door stop working. Mini!Giles says that won't work because it's not earthly, but D'Hoffryn thinks they can write things in the book that will mitigate its effect. Ultimately, though, they have to defeat the Evil Stooges.
Basically, as I read it, Archaeus himself is no longer important in the Buffy book. He's off to A&F (not, as far as I can tell, as a passenger in Angel's head. He's just making his own way to London).
The book ends with a lot of goodbyes. Xander and Angel are cool now. Xander - looking at Buffy binding up Spike's wounds- reckons he and Angel have more in common than he thought (Dawn is walking away from them at this point). Angel says goodbye to Spike. Says he can tell Spike cares for Buffy and as long as he acts like it, they're good. The minute Spike hurts her...
Spike interrupts to say, "I'll hold you to that." They shake hands.
Angel says goodbye to Buffy. Buffy hopes they've got to the point where they can be part of each others' lives again. Angel says all he wanted was for her to be happy. Since it seems she is, he can live with it. Buffy hugs him and gives him a kiss on the cheek.
Willow is to drive Angel to the airport. She says, "That was really big of you. Couldn't have been easy."
Angel: Wasn't that hard. It's not like it'll ever last.
Willow: Angel, I adore you (you do?), but if you even think of trying to cause problems for them...
Angel: I wouldn't do that but I don't have to. You were right (see previous issue). Immortals don't really change. Soul or not, he's still Spike. He fixates on someone. Decides they're gonna solve all his problems. Give his life meaning. Make him stop hating himself. But they don't, 'cause they can't. And in the end, he drives 'em away, confirming what he believes about himself. Letting him wallow in self-pity for a while. Then start all over again.
Willow: That sounds awfully...
Angel: Harsh? I know. And like I'm rooting for it to happen. Let's be honest - part of me is. Another part would really like to think there's a chance for guys like us. But I've lived a long time and never seen a happy ending. My experience, it's always the happiness that goes.
Okay, that all sounds very clever, and there is some truth in it. But there's also a lot that's not - starting with the whole 'Angel hasn't changed since 1922' thing in the previous issue. As for Spike, though Angel's right that unsouled Spike has a habit (well, he's done it twice in 120 years) of putting women on pedastals, I thought the whole point of Gischler's dull, dull, dull Spike mini series was to make him learn that he can't put the entire burden of his happiness on someone else's head.
Then again, if the whole 'immortals can't change' is the schtick they're going with as a way of breaking up Spike and Buffy, Spike will just be like Angel and be learning the same lesson over and over and it will never stick. But at least when Spike forgets his lessons, he only hurts himself and a few other people, when Angel does, lots of people die and a lot of stuff goes boom. ;)
So, this may be a big pointer to the way they're going to end Spuffy (basically, self-sabotage on Spike's part). If season 10 is the last season, maybe it'll end with a big scooby group-hug (would be par for the course with this comic) and Spike and Angel walking off into the sunset together, arguing as they go about which one of them is Rick and which is Louis.
All I can say is, I hope Buffy gets some input into this, rather than it being done to, or for, her.
The letters on the letters page are all Spuffy-positive. Someone even points out how it would be a new thing in the Buffyverse for someone to have a stable, mature relationship which doesn't end and where no one dies.
Not that I'm expecting that. Ever. Especially not if there is a season 11.
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no subject
Date: 2015-08-23 01:28 pm (UTC)Yeah, he said there was no real Big Bad, but just prior he said they have Archaeus and the 3 and there'd be another one. It was an interview a couple weeks ago.
"I mean there are bad guys in it, and there are some that have not been revealed yet"
no subject
Date: 2015-08-23 03:10 pm (UTC)It is just possible (though not probable, IMO) that
Mrs MarstersDylan has been vamped and will be a villain.no subject
Date: 2015-08-24 11:07 am (UTC)Probably they'll be little bads. Still, it's a lot for 11 issues to go. Plus I can't imagine snake lady not returning.
I kinda doubt Mrs Marsters will be a vamp. If anyone comes back vamp, it'll probably be Satsu.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-24 12:11 pm (UTC)I doubt it too, but if she's not one, I just don't see how she's meant to work as a new love interest for Spike (and I can't see why bother to introduce her at all if not to cause conflict between Spike and Buffy) seeing as the whole 'immortals shouldn't date mortals' thing applies to her too.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-24 11:56 pm (UTC)I don't know about love interest. They tout her as that, but will probably just add drama. Wood was a love interest, too, after all. K'oh started off as that.
My honest guess is she'll be reintroduced with this incubus storyline. Where it goes from there, I dunno.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-25 12:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-27 01:16 pm (UTC)I don't like the selectiveness of it. From what I understand the character is canon, but not necessarily JM's comic? Or is it like the IDW run and they'll never say what exactly is or isn't?
It's a horrible retcon, but I really can't say it's worse than anything in S8.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-27 03:29 pm (UTC)Mrs MarstersDylan is canon but the rest of the story isn't.I've been re-reading season 10, btw. Needless to say (because it's usually the case) it reads much better and more coherent in a big chunk rather than spun out over 18 months. Far less like it's been Buffy/Spike all the time.
It's also far more anvil-ly and obvious reading it like this how Buffy and Spike jumping into their relationship feet first (as it were) is a big mistake on both their parts. The text was hammering it home pretty relentlessly for the previous however many issues it was before the storyline started.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-27 04:24 pm (UTC)the rest of the story isn't.
That's my take. And I hate it.
I usually reread the past issues before the new one. As a whole, S10 is much better than 8 or 9. You can go from issue to issue and not feel like you've missed 4 or 5 in between. As an isolated story, it works. As part of the whole... it doesn't. Yeah, it's definitely shown that it's bad. The problem is they never get into why they do it. Why do they jump in bed together so fast? Why does Buffy go from clearly not caring in 8 or 9 to being all about him 10? Angel and Xander speak for Spike, Willow and Dawn speak for Buffy and none of what any of them say actually fits things.
Maybe now that the Archaeus thing is over, they'll actually talk. Technically speaking, they've only been together in-story, what, 2 or 3 days?
no subject
Date: 2015-08-27 04:31 pm (UTC)Even if season 10 ends with Spike and Buffy skipping off through the daisies together, if there's a change of writer and there's a season 11, that could start with Buffy seeming yet again like a completely different person.
And to be fair, that happens an awful lot in comics where there's a change of writers.
Still jarring, though, whenever it happens.
Why does Buffy go from clearly not caring in 8 or 9
I vaguely remember Andrew Chambliss being really surprised that anyone thought she should care.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-27 04:44 pm (UTC)I can see her becoming S10. 8 or 9, not really. At all. S10 at least has a sense of right/wrong. Gage, for all his flaws, at least tries. Joss (and co) were clearly in I'm Joss, Go With It territory. Make a joke, stuff happened and here we are now *wink*. And Chambliss tried to go from that. He had a tough row to hoe with Joss's robot and K'oh ideas. Honestly, I think the disappearance of Allie has at least a little to do with her being written slightly better in S10. Largely, I don't think they have much interest in her as a character, Joss included. I remember Nick saying when they were pitching ideas, he stopped them and asked where the 'Buffy' of it was. Must have been a formality because while it's better, there's still no Buffy to it.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-27 05:07 pm (UTC)Also, unlike Allie (and Joss, apparently) Gage appears to like Buffy.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-28 10:47 am (UTC)Also, unlike Allie (and Joss, apparently) Gage appears to like Buffy.
Yeah. I know there was a whole thing in S8 where people claim Allie =/= Joss in his claims, but I have a hard time believing his opinions weren't informed by Joss. AFAIK, Joss never contradicted anything he said.
And I know it sounds all conspiracy-ish, but I do think there's an element of Whedon taking his feelings toward the actors and putting them on the characters. In the run-up to the comics he made this bizarre comment that sounded quite spiteful to me about Buffy not having to look like SMG 'cause she wasn't the only Buffy. Considering it's a continuation and his strenuous disavowal of the movie, it was extremely dismissive and telling, IMO. Suddenly Eliza's his leading lady and Faith is the 'more mature/more human' slayer.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-28 11:20 am (UTC)In the run-up to the comics he made this bizarre comment that sounded quite spiteful to me about Buffy not having to look like SMG 'cause she wasn't the only Buffy.
That is quite bizarre, though it does explain the attitude of some of the sycophants on Whedonesque, who were claiming it didn't matter to them that Jeanty's rendition of Buffy didn't look like SMG.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-28 04:59 pm (UTC)What did James say? I know he said something, but for some reason I can't remember. I don't think even Allie could have missed Spike was popular considering even DH did Spike solo comics and WB's insistence on him jumping shows was a known story. In a way it kind of supports the theory. I mean, why else leave him out so completely?
That is quite bizarre, though it does explain the attitude of some of the sycophants on Whedonesque, who were claiming it didn't matter to them that Jeanty's rendition of Buffy didn't look like SMG.
If he'd have said it in a way that was obviously just being nice to Jeanty, it would be one thing. But the comment about not being the only Buffy pinged hard. Then there was that stupid mini-comic with the whole 'needy' and bottle-blonde crap. I mean, yes, it's obvious the actress dyed her hair and it changed shades regularly... But so did Aly and I don't see anyone saying Willow dyed her hair. There is no way Spike, Faith, Cordy, Angelus, Dawn, etc. wouldn't have made a comment about it in 7 years if it were supposed to be canon beforehand. So, yeah, little stuff like that. Also that outfit in the threesome panel looked a lot like a photoshoot. Why the heck would Buffy fantasize herself in a WW2 nurse's uniform, you know?
Bah. Just rambling now.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-29 12:14 pm (UTC)I expect he said various things at various times, but the one that sticks in my mind is him telling a story about being furious with Joss for calling Spike's character in AtS season 5 an 'ingenue', because in theatre terms that meant something derogatory, and that he'd said how furious he was to Joss's face. Now whether that was true or not, who knows? James tells a lot of stories. But Joss may well have got to hear of it and either didn't like James revealing stuff that happened on set, or didn't like him making up stuff that happened on set.
James has probably said other stuff about Whedon over the years that Joss hasn't liked. Lately, James has been a lot more conciliatory, but then he would be, wouldn't he, now that Joss is the director of one of the most commercially successful films of all time. I think Boreanaz went from all 'AtS was stupid, I don't wanna talk about it' to 'I'd work with Joss again any time, he just has to call me' after that too.
I don't think even Allie could have missed Spike was popular considering even DH did Spike solo comics and WB's insistence on him jumping shows was a known story. In a way it kind of supports the theory. I mean, why else leave him out so completely?
There is of course also James's open dislike of the artist chosen to illustrate that Spike/Dru story he wrote. He's all reconciled with Dark Horse now, but until a few years back he was very vocal about it. Doubt that made Allie think too kindly of him.
But yeah, if they excluded the character from season 8 for reasons of personal animosity towards the actor, or wrote Buffy the way they wrote her in seasons 8/9 for the same reasons, it was pretty petty of them.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-29 06:01 pm (UTC)I think DB and company have gotten a little softer in speaking because they know it's over with. There's never going to be an Angel movie and everyone knows it, same with Buffy. So everyone can say call me or if the script/timing is right and fans are placated and they come off as friends when I highly doubt anything has changed in how they regard each other. I'd be mightily surprised if any of them except Amy, Alexis, Tom and the 'in' crowd work with Joss again, or vice-versa.
But yeah, if they excluded the character from season 8 for reasons of personal animosity towards the actor, or wrote Buffy the way they wrote her in seasons 8/9 for the same reasons, it was pretty petty of them.
Joss is pretty petty. I don't think he fired CC for getting pregnant, but the way he wrote they did the Cordy/Jasmine arc? Total character assassination. Same with Angel in the comics. A talking dog.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-30 04:01 pm (UTC)You're probably right. And yes, that list of Joss's favourites, who he'll always try and find work for, is about right, though, of the people who worked on BtVS/AtS I'd add Felicia Day to it too.
ETA: And Nathan Fillion, of course.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-27 04:32 pm (UTC)Speak of the devil...
http://i.imgur.com/lwCEXZa.png
Guess not so much with them talking.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-27 05:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-27 05:24 pm (UTC)Can't really begrudge them doing a Giles issue, I suppose. He's been a kid for so long.
But yeah, some kind of Giles v Hank. I doubt Hank'll come off well and Giles' father figure-ness will be glorified. I think Giles was actually a pretty crappy 'dad', which is why I like him. And why would he be? He didn't ask to be a pseudo father to 3 high schoolers.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-27 05:26 pm (UTC)I've got used to Mini!Giles in the comics. It'll be weird having grown up Giles back.