Buffy season 10 no 30
Aug. 24th, 2016 10:24 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shapinglightSo, Buffy season 10 is over at last, and unlike in previous comics 'seasons,' I'm not left with this feeling of...well, raging fury at the sheer stupidity of it all.
This is not to say that there wasn't stupid stuff in the series (there was - loads of it), or that everyone will feel the same because as it just so happens this season is more in tune with my particular 'shipping preferences. In fact, I already saw someone over on Tumblr complaining that Christos Gage has it in for Bangel 'shippers, though as far as I can see this is based solely on the fact that season 10 ends with Spike and Buffy still together, not because Gage has spent the whole season bashing Bangel. But mileage varies, obvs.) but I still think it was less of a mess than previous seasons.
I will have to re-read from the beginning to be sure this is true plotwise. Sometimes, when you re-read, you discover that the writer has been cleverer than you thought. We'll see. I do think it seemed more coherent as a whole than either seasons 8 or 9, and I'm quite looking forward to season 11 for that reason. I think the 12 issue short, tight story with no digressions will probably suit Gage's writing style.
When it comes to character development, mileage is going to vary again. In many ways, the Buffy of season 10 seems a lot less mature than the Buffy of the show. On the other hand, I never knew where I was with seasons 8/9 Buffy so I still regard the fact that you do see character/relationship development over the season as an improvement on the two previous comics seasons. Certainly, I like the way that Spike has developed as a character, and to me, the Spike/Buffy relationship as depicted in season 10 works well, whereas I couldn't see, say, the AtS season 5 version of Spike in a relationship with Buffy at all.
I also think the season did well by Andrew, a character I never liked in the show. He's stopped being a source of stupid gay panic jokiness and become his own person.
In fact, I suppose Gage was true to the theme of the season - growing up - if you interpret that as becoming your own person. Everyone does by the end, even Not!Real Anya.
Well, maybe notHarry Potter Mini!Giles, my least favourite thing about season 10. He's part of the abovementioned stupid stuff, along with Maloker (you know, the ancient demon who was somehow or other Angelus, Drusilla and Spike's ancestor, in a way that messed with canon big time?) and Dawn being the key again, which, though it involved some stuff I loved, like her and Xander's journey home through the various dimensions, is just too convenient a plot device. But even some of the stupid stuff was enjoyable (Xander/Dracula will never not be funny), and I personally adore Harmony, queen of the vampires.
Anyway, the final issue doesn't end in a big group hug, as I predicted it would. Instead, it ends with Buffy constituting a new magic council to ensure best use of the Vampyr book, with herself as president, Mini!Giles as vice-president-in-charge-of-banging-a-gavel-loudly, and with such diverse members as Willow, Riley, Dracula (yay!I do love him in the comics), Archduchess Venobia, and a few other assorted demons.
This is after they've got rid of D'Hoffryn (for good, Buffy cuts off his head), having been saved by Not Really Anya, who grants Buffy's wish that she'd never given D'Hoffryn the chance to acquire those powers in the first place (as seen in the preview pages), reconstitutes Xander, and is incinerated by D'Hoffryn for her troubles. She does get a nice death scene first, though. In which she says it was worth it to become her own person (in tune with the theme of the season), and that she forgives Xander and so would the real Anya.
At the end, Buffy and Spike are still together, and Xander and Dawn are dating again.
It would all be a little too sugary, I guess, not to mention easy (for instance, Buffy and co chase D'Hoffryn back to Arashmaharr by writing in the Book that Dawn's key powers work to open portals even in our world) if it weren't for the frankly hilarious Magic Council scenes at the end, in which the various new council members are lobbied by interest groups (Lilah Morgan is there for Wolfram & Hart), such as the Protect Human Sacrifice Group and Ghoul Power before they convene for the first time.
So basically season 10 ends with Buffy going into politics. ;)
Just to reiterate, I enjoyed the series, and I'm not going to deny it. Yes, it pandered to my 'shipping preferences big time, and there were way too many instances of exposition-heavy dialogue, and the characters were regressed in many ways, and I wish Rebekah Isaacs could find another way of expressing extreme emotion than having everyone in floods of tears (though this is not untypical in comics) but I enjoyed the humour, I liked the art (both artists), and I thought several of the issues - notably the one-off dealing with the AR, and the issue featuring Hank Summers - were very good indeed.
YMMV, of course.
ETA: Some angry Bangel 'shippers (some of whose names I recognise) on Gage's Twitter feed, I see. Ironically, one of them seems to think Scott Allie is ultimately to blame for Spuffy in the comics.
This is not to say that there wasn't stupid stuff in the series (there was - loads of it), or that everyone will feel the same because as it just so happens this season is more in tune with my particular 'shipping preferences. In fact, I already saw someone over on Tumblr complaining that Christos Gage has it in for Bangel 'shippers, though as far as I can see this is based solely on the fact that season 10 ends with Spike and Buffy still together, not because Gage has spent the whole season bashing Bangel. But mileage varies, obvs.) but I still think it was less of a mess than previous seasons.
I will have to re-read from the beginning to be sure this is true plotwise. Sometimes, when you re-read, you discover that the writer has been cleverer than you thought. We'll see. I do think it seemed more coherent as a whole than either seasons 8 or 9, and I'm quite looking forward to season 11 for that reason. I think the 12 issue short, tight story with no digressions will probably suit Gage's writing style.
When it comes to character development, mileage is going to vary again. In many ways, the Buffy of season 10 seems a lot less mature than the Buffy of the show. On the other hand, I never knew where I was with seasons 8/9 Buffy so I still regard the fact that you do see character/relationship development over the season as an improvement on the two previous comics seasons. Certainly, I like the way that Spike has developed as a character, and to me, the Spike/Buffy relationship as depicted in season 10 works well, whereas I couldn't see, say, the AtS season 5 version of Spike in a relationship with Buffy at all.
I also think the season did well by Andrew, a character I never liked in the show. He's stopped being a source of stupid gay panic jokiness and become his own person.
In fact, I suppose Gage was true to the theme of the season - growing up - if you interpret that as becoming your own person. Everyone does by the end, even Not!Real Anya.
Well, maybe not
Anyway, the final issue doesn't end in a big group hug, as I predicted it would. Instead, it ends with Buffy constituting a new magic council to ensure best use of the Vampyr book, with herself as president, Mini!Giles as vice-president-in-charge-of-banging-a-gavel-loudly, and with such diverse members as Willow, Riley, Dracula (yay!I do love him in the comics), Archduchess Venobia, and a few other assorted demons.
This is after they've got rid of D'Hoffryn (for good, Buffy cuts off his head), having been saved by Not Really Anya, who grants Buffy's wish that she'd never given D'Hoffryn the chance to acquire those powers in the first place (as seen in the preview pages), reconstitutes Xander, and is incinerated by D'Hoffryn for her troubles. She does get a nice death scene first, though. In which she says it was worth it to become her own person (in tune with the theme of the season), and that she forgives Xander and so would the real Anya.
At the end, Buffy and Spike are still together, and Xander and Dawn are dating again.
It would all be a little too sugary, I guess, not to mention easy (for instance, Buffy and co chase D'Hoffryn back to Arashmaharr by writing in the Book that Dawn's key powers work to open portals even in our world) if it weren't for the frankly hilarious Magic Council scenes at the end, in which the various new council members are lobbied by interest groups (Lilah Morgan is there for Wolfram & Hart), such as the Protect Human Sacrifice Group and Ghoul Power before they convene for the first time.
So basically season 10 ends with Buffy going into politics. ;)
Just to reiterate, I enjoyed the series, and I'm not going to deny it. Yes, it pandered to my 'shipping preferences big time, and there were way too many instances of exposition-heavy dialogue, and the characters were regressed in many ways, and I wish Rebekah Isaacs could find another way of expressing extreme emotion than having everyone in floods of tears (though this is not untypical in comics) but I enjoyed the humour, I liked the art (both artists), and I thought several of the issues - notably the one-off dealing with the AR, and the issue featuring Hank Summers - were very good indeed.
YMMV, of course.
ETA: Some angry Bangel 'shippers (some of whose names I recognise) on Gage's Twitter feed, I see. Ironically, one of them seems to think Scott Allie is ultimately to blame for Spuffy in the comics.
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no subject
Date: 2016-08-24 09:30 am (UTC)Created an original character as a wife for Satsu, and though Renee hasn't appeared in a story as a character yet, she's around.
No Drac; no Kenny; no Angel wearing his underwear outside his tights. :-)
It is a kind of fascinating experience watching as an outsider as people talk about the stories though; rather like people discussing long-running fanfcition stories.
kerk
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Date: 2016-08-31 04:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-08-31 08:28 pm (UTC)kerk
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Date: 2016-09-01 04:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-08-24 12:23 pm (UTC)Like you, I admit it plays to my Spuffy preference, but it also sounds more coherent (and entertaining) than season 9, which seemed like a big fat mess. I still find Xander / Dawn icky, but I can tolerate that in comics far more than I could if it had been explored on TV. And, as you say, Xander and Dracula together is pure comedy gold.
So, thanks for the insight!
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Date: 2016-08-31 04:07 pm (UTC);) I think you'll probably enjoy it. And it's not really necessary to have read season 9. Any debris (as it were) from that season is tidied away in the first two issues. In many ways, season 10 reads like the first comics season. You can't really see season 10 Buffy evolving out of seasons 8/9 Buffy.
And, as you say, Xander and Dracula together is pure comedy gold.
It really is. ;)
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Date: 2016-08-24 02:08 pm (UTC)I'm curious as to how the power will be distributed on the new Magic council or will they ignore that that was part of the jobs of the original council?
Bangel fans always upset me when they go crazy about Spike and Buffy being together. As far as I know, Spuffy fans are a little bit more reasonable and accepting when Angle and Buffy get together. (They don't like it but they are kind of accepting.)
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Date: 2016-08-24 02:31 pm (UTC)Spuffy fans are a little bit more reasonable and accepting when Angle and Buffy get together. (They don't like it but they are kind of accepting.)
No, they aren't. The pretend they are. The truth is they've never had to deal with Bangel on "their watch" so to speak outside of EoD/Chosen, which they definitely flipped about. But take their reaction to the idea of Spred or S8/S9 and you can make a pretty good guess that if Bangel hook up in S11, Gage will go from great to garbage in less than a second. The same is true of Bangels, too, just in the opposite direction. One will scream about how could they do this to the characters while the other praises their character growth.
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Date: 2016-08-24 04:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-08-26 01:11 am (UTC)such raveningas distraught at Bangel as they seem to be at the idea of Spuffy. Although I have seen some people on Spuffy archive forums who get kinda overwrought about it....no subject
Date: 2016-08-26 01:42 am (UTC)Let it actually happen. See how quickly the quality of the writer suddenly drops. Whether it's EoD or TGIQ, both shipper groups, outliers like shapinglight aside, pretty much react the same when it comes to the possibility of other ships, especially rivals. Spred fans used to get hammered.
Bangels complaining about the "assassination" of the integrity of the 'verse with Spuffy are pretty much just parroting Spuffy complaints about S8 where they spent the whole time complaining about the absence of Spike. As SL noted, that's why Allie being blamed is funny because he spent 6 years embattled with Spike fans. Sure, there were legitimate gripes about S8/S9 (they were horrible indeed overall), but that horribleness is present in 10, too, writing-wise.
There is nothing wrong with that, mind you, don't get me wrong. Liking something because it pushes the right buttons for you is fine, but I don't think not liking something for the same reasons is fine, too.
As an aside, it's just a problem inherent to trying to please fans. It's never a good idea for that reason. It places the worth of one set of fans over the other which is going to provoke some justified outrage.
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Date: 2016-08-31 04:23 pm (UTC)I know, right? I found that quite hilarious.
Also, I will never, ever understand the hatred for TGiQ. I thought it was the perfect last word on both 'ships.
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Date: 2016-09-01 06:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-09-01 04:30 pm (UTC)I do think it bookends both 'ships very nicely, though. One day, maybe, one of the vampires will catch up with Buffy - assuming they've managed to get over themselves first. ;)
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Date: 2016-08-31 04:20 pm (UTC)I don't think I even pretended to be reasonable at the end of season 8. I remember just being really bitter, and eye-rolling a lot at some Spuffy 'shippers who saw Buffy's glow-induced fantasy about Spike as proof that she'd loved him all along, about which, WTF?
I make a practice these days of damning the comics with faint praise even when they're doing things with the story I've wanted for years, and of being very sceptical about almost everything. It's safer. ;)
I do still think that Gage has developed Spike's character well, though. He's turned him into a guy that you could consider dating. Before that, though I'd got to the point where my main reason for 'shipping Spuffy rather than Bangel had pretty much become that I felt Spike was a little more likely to one day get over himself.
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Date: 2016-08-31 07:55 pm (UTC)I make a practice these days of damning the comics with faint praise even when they're doing things with the story I've wanted for years, and of being very sceptical about almost everything. It's safer. ;)
I don't think there's anything wrong with that, honestly. That's why we get along, I think. You acknowledge it. Yeah, they're playing to Spike fans...and? Are we pretending S8 didn't play to Xander fans? That S9 doesn't exist to whitewash Angel? After so many comic years, Spike fans are getting their turn. That's going to please some and piss off others, which I think is valid, too, just as it was in S8. There's nothing wrong with bias.
I do still think that Gage has developed Spike's character well, though. He's turned him into a guy that you could consider dating. Before that, though I'd got to the point where my main reason for 'shipping Spuffy rather than Bangel had pretty much become that I felt Spike was a little more likely to one day get over himself.
We kinda disagree there. I tend to think he's turned him too Angel-y. Even post-soul and on AtS, Spike always had bit of an edgy socially anti-social sort of thing going on. Snarky, yet not without care; likes people but is exasperated with them. Gage's Spike to me has a little too much father/guide figure to him. Really reminds me of S3 Angel, even before the whole leave-you-for-your-own-good thing.
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Date: 2016-09-01 04:41 pm (UTC)Absolutely. As long as you admit to it. What I can't stand is people making dramatic stands on the so-called moral high ground as a reason for their bias instead of calling it what it is.
I get what you're saying about Gage's Spike. He doesn't have a lot (any?) in the way of edge (which he did still have (just about) in the much disliked season 9),and I do think there's been too much kitten hugging in season 10 (even though I liked it). I dunno. I don't agree that he's paternalistic, but I do think the scale could tip back in the direction of more edge without it tipping so far that we once again have a Spike who can't play nice enough to live with anyone.
I can't say I have high hopes of season 11 because I don't. I make a policy of not having any hopes where the comics are concerned. It is possible, though, that the format of a shorter ongoing (hopefully) plotty story could bring somewhat more edgy characteristics to the fore.
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Date: 2016-09-01 05:53 pm (UTC)What I can't stand is people making dramatic stands on the so-called moral high ground as a reason for their bias instead of calling it what it is.
Absolutely. That's why I mention the end of S8 'cause let's be real, that's all they were doing. Was it crap and quite offensive? Yes. But so was the rest of it that they spent years defending. It's just now the shoe is on the other foot for Bangels and they don't like it. I don't believe for a second the mainstream Spuffy readers wouldn't react the same to S11 Bangel, though.
Maybe you're right about Spike. Maybe it's not him that's paternalistic so much as it's Buffy who's childish. What they've done with her is pretty much the same as they literally did to Giles: Regress them majorly just to have a story to tell about them.
re: s11, Any hopes I had with the smaller run were dashed with the synopsis. Joss+political allegories always, always, always fails. S10 ending with the Scoobs once again failing up doesn't work for me. Spend a whole season (well, 3 seasons) screwing up completely and getting people killed? Let's give them more power! Meh. Efforts to tune it out will be increased.
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Date: 2016-09-05 05:21 pm (UTC)They will. On the other hand, since Joss took himself off the scene, there's been a lot less making excuses for the actual quality of the story in the comics. Or the quality of the comics in general. I still roll my eyes at people claiming the reason why no one much talks about the comics now the way they did in season 8 is because season 8 was so good, and now the comics are crap. They were always crap. It's just that back when season 8 started, they were new crap, and Joss was writing them, and some people had it fixed in their heads that Joss writing something guaranteed some kind of quality. And it just doesn't.
Very much agree that Buffy's been regressed.
Any hopes I had with the smaller run were dashed with the synopsis.
Erm...is this something I missed? Is season 11 some kind of election parable?
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Date: 2016-09-05 06:46 pm (UTC)It was my feeling then and it continues to be so that people only defended S8 because it was Joss. It's like they were never defending the characters or story so much as Joss's writing of it. "No, it makes perfect sense that X character would do this because of a joke told in S1, also it's theme/metaphor!" They seemingly just don't want to admit that he screwed up massively. I don't think S10 was any better than S8, but it certainly wasn't any *worse*, either.
To this day, S8 is blamed on them letting having no budget carry them away. As I said on the imzy poll, though, everything bad about S8 had nothing to do with budget. It was just bad writing from beginning to end and it was all Joss. Even the dumb crap in Meltzer's arc was Joss idea.
Erm...is this something I missed? Is season 11 some kind of election parable
With Buffy being president of the new council thingy and Gage/Whedon's comments about "the world we live in" or whatever, that's what I took it as.
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Date: 2016-09-06 02:39 pm (UTC)Ah okay, yeah. I should have remembered that I said myself at the end of the last issue, 'so Buffy's gone into politics.'
To this day, S8 is blamed on them letting having no budget carry them away. As I said on the imzy poll, though, everything bad about S8 had nothing to do with budget. It was just bad writing from beginning to end and it was all Joss. Even the dumb crap in Meltzer's arc was Joss idea.
Yep. Agreed. Though some of the 'no budget restrictions' stuff was pretty risible.
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Date: 2016-09-06 06:47 pm (UTC)Though some of the 'no budget restrictions' stuff was pretty risible.
Oh, yeah. I guess my stance is it wasn't the foundation of the problem. Have you ever read the first Angel comics Joss did? Very we-are-budgetless! and still manages to tell a story with the actual characters.
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Date: 2016-09-15 04:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-09-06 02:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-09-06 06:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-09-06 08:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-08-31 04:10 pm (UTC)Erm...I don't really think I agree with that. I can remember feeling very unreasonable indeed while season 8 was going on. ;)
I do think you're not likely to find many Spuffy 'shippers who flat out deny that Buffy ever loved Angel at all, which I've certainly seen Bangel 'shippers say about Buffy and Spike. Mind you, Spuffy is so ambiguous in season 7 that you can read it that way if you want. I certainly don't believe that Buffy was in love with Spike then.
I'm curious as to how the power will be distributed on the new Magic council or will they ignore that that was part of the jobs of the original council?
I don't know of course, because Gage didn't spell it out, but I have the impression no one will have a particular job. They'll just meet to decide what should be written in the book, argue about it a lot, and eventually go for a majority decision.
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Date: 2016-08-25 07:07 am (UTC)I will miss D'Hoffryn, who is a worthy adversary, and canny.
Since I like Fred and Faith, I suppose I should read the A&F titles. Eventually.
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Date: 2016-08-31 04:25 pm (UTC)I really, really can't recommend A&F season 10. It's terrible. Which is a shame, because I wanted the real, actual Fred back for so long. :(
Season 9 has its annoyances, but it's much, much better.
As for Dawn, I take your point. Either she's the Key or she's not, and if she is, then she should be able to do Key stuff if she wants.
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Date: 2016-09-01 06:54 am (UTC)I am glad that the powers of The Key have at last been clarified.
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Date: 2016-08-25 04:22 pm (UTC)*waves*
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Date: 2016-08-31 04:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-08-26 01:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-08-31 04:28 pm (UTC)Yes, that could well be the best thing about the entire season. ;)
As for fic, although I've liked season 10 a lot more than 8 or 9, there's just no way I'd ever include events from the comics in fic except in the vaguest terms. They're just not canon to me the way the show is (even when I like what they're doing).
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Date: 2016-08-31 10:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-09-01 04:47 pm (UTC)Which I guess, when you think about it, is kind of ironic. ;)
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Date: 2016-09-02 01:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-08-26 10:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-08-31 04:29 pm (UTC)Looks like we enjoyed pretty much the same things. Also, the art was very nice indeed. I love Rebekah Isaacs, and I predict that the short, tight format of season 11, with the focus on fewer characters, is probably going to suit her very well indeed.
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Date: 2016-09-01 07:21 am (UTC)One element that I really did have HUGE problems with are the reunion of Buffy and Angel after all the horrors and betrayals of the Twilight Times. But Dark Horse and the writers have devoted so much effort to doing the "sweep under the rug" that there is no way CG was going to take on a serious exploration of the issue.
Anyway - excellent review of the season finale - I also am very happy with the 12 issue format for season 11. Frankly, my automatic fan support was starting to go into low even with the Spuffy story. After all these years I still have a pretty big dislike for reading a monthly issue story and having the comic book limitations for the characters and the stories that were part of the TV Era. I always want so much more than what the comic book offers.
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Date: 2016-09-01 04:45 pm (UTC)Well, he thinks he dealt with all of that in A&F season 9. Angel did Giles a favour by killing him because he freed him from eternal servitude to Eyghon, it was really Twangel who killed Nadira's fellow slayers bu Pearl and Nash, etc, etc.
I could cope with all this a bit better, I think, if it weren't for the fact that Angel clearly learned nothing from it. Plus, he ruined Faith's life in pursuit of his obsession. He's lucky she didn't dust him.