Lucifer season 3 episode 20
Apr. 19th, 2018 01:21 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shapinglightI enjoyed this episode quite a lot. Haven't enjoyed some of the comments I've read after it, though, from disgruntled 'shippers. Also not enjoying the fact that we still don't know whether the show is renewed or cancelled. What is taking so long?
More behind cut with spoilers.
Pierce/Cain's plan was quite dastardly, IMO. I just don't understand it. What on earth made him think that getting Chloe to fall in love with him was going to remove his mark? That makes no sense. I hope he'll explain himself in the next episode.
In the end, what removed the mark wasn't quite what I thought it would be. I'd thought Pierce would have to be genuinely remorseful about killing Abel. Turns out, however, it was more that he had to put someone else's feelings above his own. There's no timeframe for how long he's been cursed, but it seems astonishing that in all that time he's never, ever cared about anyone except himself. Makes his relationship with the Sinnerman even ickier, IMO, since he knew him as a child, but I've pretty much despaired now of that ever being explained properly - that, and why on earth the Sinnerman was so eager for Lucifer to kill him.
Speaking of dastardly - or maybe demony is a better word - Maze was pretty evil in this episode. I don't really have a problem with her gas-lighting Lucifer, who has never treated her as if she actually mattered that much, but I'm pretty upset with her going along with a plan that she knew would hurt Chloe badly.
On the other hand, I'm not in the 'Maze's character is irredeemable for me now' camp, which seems to be prevalent in some places. She's a demon and she's behaving like one - more like Mazikeen in the comics.
I always like references to the comics sneaking in and there were several in this episode, including Lucifer saying he'd been dreaming he was king of the centaur people.
I like montages too, and the Lucifer-trying-to-stay-awake montage was great, even though the last thing he does - watch all one hundred (or however many it is) series of Bones - would never have kept me awake. Watching just one episode once many years ago bored me rigid.
Case of the week was forgettable, as always. In fact, I've forgotten it already. But I always like it when Tom Ellis is given a chance to show his versatility and he certainly got that in this episode. No idea how it's all going to pan out, but still hoping - if there is a season 4 - that Pierce is well and truly gone at the end of this one.
The stuff I did not enjoy was seeing people saying they are 'so done with this show' because of the Pierce/Chloe thing, and ranting about how awful Chloe's being to Lucifer. How soon some forget. Only last season, Lucifer disappeared on Chloe just when she'd reciprocated his feelings and returned married to an (as Chloe saw it), air-headed exotic dancer.
Anyway, I suppose that's 'shippers for you. I've only been a 'shipper once and I'm not going to make that mistake again. My main objection to Chloe/Pierce continues to be that I just can't see what everyone (ie. Chloe and Ella) sees in Pierce in the first place.
Other stuff: Poor Charlotte. I think she's wrong to believe she's doomed to go to hell, though. I hope Amenadiel helps her see that.
Back near the beginning of season 3,rebcake said she thought it was suffering from the lack of scenes between the female characters. That's still so, unfortunately. There's been nothing to match what we got in the season 2 episode Girls' Night (the karaoke/fight scene). A pity.
Finally, I'm still completely confused as to how many episodes there are left this season. One of the show writers - I forget which one - on Twitter was saying there were five episodes left (including episode 20), while Lauren German is saying that the final one they shot, which was directed by Kevin Alejandro, would be shown in season 4, if there is one. I just can't work out any more how many episodes they've actually made.
Oh well. Doesn't matter, I guess. What does matter is that the show not get cancelled, because I've a horrible feelings they've ended on a cliffhanger.
:Crosses fingers:
More behind cut with spoilers.
Pierce/Cain's plan was quite dastardly, IMO. I just don't understand it. What on earth made him think that getting Chloe to fall in love with him was going to remove his mark? That makes no sense. I hope he'll explain himself in the next episode.
In the end, what removed the mark wasn't quite what I thought it would be. I'd thought Pierce would have to be genuinely remorseful about killing Abel. Turns out, however, it was more that he had to put someone else's feelings above his own. There's no timeframe for how long he's been cursed, but it seems astonishing that in all that time he's never, ever cared about anyone except himself. Makes his relationship with the Sinnerman even ickier, IMO, since he knew him as a child, but I've pretty much despaired now of that ever being explained properly - that, and why on earth the Sinnerman was so eager for Lucifer to kill him.
Speaking of dastardly - or maybe demony is a better word - Maze was pretty evil in this episode. I don't really have a problem with her gas-lighting Lucifer, who has never treated her as if she actually mattered that much, but I'm pretty upset with her going along with a plan that she knew would hurt Chloe badly.
On the other hand, I'm not in the 'Maze's character is irredeemable for me now' camp, which seems to be prevalent in some places. She's a demon and she's behaving like one - more like Mazikeen in the comics.
I always like references to the comics sneaking in and there were several in this episode, including Lucifer saying he'd been dreaming he was king of the centaur people.
I like montages too, and the Lucifer-trying-to-stay-awake montage was great, even though the last thing he does - watch all one hundred (or however many it is) series of Bones - would never have kept me awake. Watching just one episode once many years ago bored me rigid.
Case of the week was forgettable, as always. In fact, I've forgotten it already. But I always like it when Tom Ellis is given a chance to show his versatility and he certainly got that in this episode. No idea how it's all going to pan out, but still hoping - if there is a season 4 - that Pierce is well and truly gone at the end of this one.
The stuff I did not enjoy was seeing people saying they are 'so done with this show' because of the Pierce/Chloe thing, and ranting about how awful Chloe's being to Lucifer. How soon some forget. Only last season, Lucifer disappeared on Chloe just when she'd reciprocated his feelings and returned married to an (as Chloe saw it), air-headed exotic dancer.
Anyway, I suppose that's 'shippers for you. I've only been a 'shipper once and I'm not going to make that mistake again. My main objection to Chloe/Pierce continues to be that I just can't see what everyone (ie. Chloe and Ella) sees in Pierce in the first place.
Other stuff: Poor Charlotte. I think she's wrong to believe she's doomed to go to hell, though. I hope Amenadiel helps her see that.
Back near the beginning of season 3,
rebcake said she thought it was suffering from the lack of scenes between the female characters. That's still so, unfortunately. There's been nothing to match what we got in the season 2 episode Girls' Night (the karaoke/fight scene). A pity.Finally, I'm still completely confused as to how many episodes there are left this season. One of the show writers - I forget which one - on Twitter was saying there were five episodes left (including episode 20), while Lauren German is saying that the final one they shot, which was directed by Kevin Alejandro, would be shown in season 4, if there is one. I just can't work out any more how many episodes they've actually made.
Oh well. Doesn't matter, I guess. What does matter is that the show not get cancelled, because I've a horrible feelings they've ended on a cliffhanger.
:Crosses fingers:
Pierce
Date: 2018-04-19 10:16 pm (UTC)In the end, what removed the mark wasn't quite what I thought it would be. I'd thought Pierce would have to be genuinely remorseful about killing Abel. Turns out, however, it was more that he had to put someone else's feelings above his own.
Eh, annyo (who loves Pierce and thinks Tom Welling is hot, sigh), pointed this out to me as well. But it just doesn't work for me.
For one thing, the mark is fading long before that happens. It starts fading when he begins dating and having a relationship with Chloe. (Opening up to her -- although how hanging out on the beach and playing the perfect boyfriend is opening up is beyond me.)
It's very close to doing so when Chloe admits her love for him -- or tries to, but he cuts her off. (Why she's in love with him? I've no clue? Because he has a great bode? And ...what exactly? They haven't really shown it. They just tell us she is. Chloe appears to have horrific taste in men and is rather shallow. Just saying.)
And how is exactly is it selfless to go to Chloe's and dump her as she's saying she loves him, because he suddenly feels guilty that once his mark is removed, he'll have Maze kill him? Wouldn't it make more sense to stop Maze from killing him? No, let's gaslight her, then we feel guilty and dump her. Sounds rather self-serving to me. He manipulated her into falling in love with him, then when his mark begins to fade -- he talks to Maze, she tells him what a douchebag he currently is for doing that. He feels a spot of remorse and decides, oh, I'll break things off before it gets that far.
The Mark fades, and he thinks, cool -- I'm free to propose to Chloe???
This show's plot structure is not working for me. Nor is the Pierce/Caine character.
I can however see where they are going with it -- he'll propose. She'll accept. He'll get killed and end up in hell - because whoops, now, he has something to feel guilty about it. Which is why the Mark was removed. He couldn't be sent to hell because he didn't feel any guilt for killing Abel. So they had to find something for him to care about, apparently it's not killing innocent people or breaking folks hearts, it's having Chloe fall for him, only to have him die on her.
Re: Pierce
Date: 2018-04-23 10:00 am (UTC)Does it? I didn't notice that.
(Why she's in love with him? I've no clue? Because he has a great bode? And ...what exactly? They haven't really shown it. They just tell us she is. Chloe appears to have horrific taste in men and is rather shallow. Just saying.)
I don't think they're meaning to portray Chloe as shallow. It's just hard to see what she sees in Pierce because we don't see it ourselves. I suppose we're meant to think she sees him as moral and reliable, etc, etc. All the things Lucifer isn't. I'm not entirely convinced she was about to tell him she loved him, though. Maybe she was just going to say she liked him an awful lot?
As for how the Pierce plot will work out, we'll see, I guess. Possibly as early as the next episode (which I won't get to watch until Wednesday at the earliest).
Other things...
Date: 2018-04-19 10:29 pm (UTC)2. I like montages too, and the Lucifer-trying-to-stay-awake montage was great, even though the last thing he does - watch all one hundred (or however many it is) series of Bones - would never have kept me awake. Watching just one episode once many years ago bored me rigid.
Sigh. Yes. I never made it past the first season. My attention either would drift, or I'd get really bored. (I can't help but wonder if the writer's were referencing Angel in an indirect way?)
3. But I always like it when Tom Ellis is given a chance to show his versatility and he certainly got that in this episode. No idea how it's all going to pan out, but still hoping - if there is a season 4 - that Pierce is well and truly gone at the end of this one.
Me too. I'm not sure I can deal with him much longer. It's notable that my favorite episodes of the season are the one's in which he's not present. Every scene he's not in is good. I don't know why he turns me off so completely, I was ambivalent about Welling in Smallville. Here...I just fast-forward during a lot of his scenes.
4. Shipping television series characters is never a good idea. It's always painful.
5. Agree on Charlotte.
6. Agree -- there's a lack of female friendships and scenes between female characters. They had more during the first two seasons. (I blame Pierce.)
7. Are there three or five episodes left? Or two? I'm also confused.
8. I didn't think the show was going to be cancelled, but I think instead of saving the show, this season's story arc and stunt casting may have back-fired in the ratings...it's dipped. (Note to writers, if you want to grab viewers don't cast a has-been actor from an old CW superhero show.) So, I don't know what will happen. It's hard to predict on some things. And FOX has always been weird in this regard.
Re: Other things...
Date: 2018-04-23 10:04 am (UTC)I like her character arc too. I don't see the point of a character like Maze if she's not allowed to be demony sometimes. I also wish her relationship with Lucifer was more like in the comics, but of course that would get in the way of Lucifer/Chloe so is very unlikely.
Not to mention Maze is quite right. Lucifer doesn't treat her well enough to deserve her.
(I can't help but wonder if the writer's were referencing Angel in an indirect way?)
They could well have been. I know they're Whedon fans too.
It's notable that my favorite episodes of the season are the one's in which he's not present
I don't dislike him as much as I did at the beginning of the season, but I shan't miss him, that's for sure.
Are there three or five episodes left? Or two? I'm also confused
I have no idea. I'm also completely confused.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-20 12:55 am (UTC)Speaking of scenes between female characters, I really love that brief moment when Charlotte is finally telling everyone off, but comes to Ella and has to admit that she actually is pretty great.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-23 10:07 am (UTC)It's possible. Or it could be the reverse. In order for Chloe's magic to work, a person has to fall in love with her, even if they don't at first realise they have. But clearly Pierce thought it was the way round that you said.
I really love that brief moment when Charlotte is finally telling everyone off, but comes to Ella and has to admit that she actually is pretty great.
Yes, that was funny. I wonder what direction Charlotte is going to go now?
no subject
Date: 2018-04-24 04:54 am (UTC)I'm not sure about Charlotte. I feel like something is going to happen to give her more hope that she can change herself and her fate, but I'm not sure what that something might be.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-25 10:56 am (UTC)As for Charlotte, they seem to have answered that question too, which is good.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-22 06:27 pm (UTC)I definitely expected something else from the "you have a right to know the truth" trailer than what we got. But they are probably saving Lucifer revealing himself to Chloe for the end of the season. (Although now he has his wings, he could make a much better impression than he could have done with his devil face, just sayin. ;))
I still hate Pierce, and now with good reason. He doesn't really care for her - just enough not to want her to die, but that's it. It's pretty clear and the show is making it as clear as they can.
I definitely ship Lucifer and Chloe, but I've never been rabid in my shipping before and am not going to start now. The pairing is obviously important to the show makers or they wouldn't show Pierce the way they are.
The problem for me is that it makes the Pierce/Chloe stuff even harder to watch, because we *know* he's going to hurt her, and he did (even though almost unwittingly and not how I expected it), and I didn't enjoy that at all.
You're right that the main problem with Maze is that she's hurting Chloe (and Trixie). I have always said that the show humanizes its characters way too much, and letting Maze go back to her demon ways is something I love. I can see that she's too deep in her own pain to care about others, though. And that's actually quite a good reaction for someone who's never dealt with their feelings in an adult way. She reminds me of a teenager, and I like that characterization of her.
I have a similar problem with Linda and Amenadiel. Not that they're not incredibly cute together, but he's not human! Linda, you should be a lot more concerned about that than about having to give him up for Maze. It's not like it is a viable relationship - as she would have found out in due course (and I am not sure I would have liked to see that. Because I really like Amenadiel, even though he's a self-righteous idiot.).
Okay, last but not least: I also am at a loss as to why on earth Pierce would think making Chloe fall in love with him would lift his curse. Wtf why?
Overall, even with all those gripes, I still enjoy this season. Lucifer got to do weird things and they didn't feel repetitive or too annoying. Linda got great storylines, and even Charlotte was way better than I expected. I hate Pierce and watching Chloe simper is the last thing I want to see, but it still doesn't overshadow the good things, so I'm definitely still in.
p.s.: The Cancel Bear still thinks Lucifer is way up there when it comes to the chances of being renewed, and I believe them.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-23 10:17 am (UTC)Whereas it was exactly what I was expecting. I don't see Lucifer revealing himself to Chloe until the show ends, let alone the season. So I really, really hope your Cancel Bear is right. I'm not ready for this show to be over with so much still hanging in the air. Not at all.
He doesn't really care for her - just enough not to want her to die, but that's it. It's pretty clear and the show is making it as clear as they can.
Yeah, he's not a good guy, no matter what he might have made Chloe think. And that has been made clear enough that I don't think the Deckerstar 'shippers have much to worry about. The ones I saw stomping off in a huff, though, seem to not be able to see the Chloe/Pierce thing from inside the story, as it were. Nothing new, of course.
The pairing is obviously important to the show makers or they wouldn't show Pierce the way they are.
Exactly.
I have always said that the show humanizes its characters way too much, and letting Maze go back to her demon ways is something I love. I can see that she's too deep in her own pain to care about others, though. And that's actually quite a good reaction for someone who's never dealt with their feelings in an adult way. She reminds me of a teenager, and I like that characterization of her.
Me too. It works perfectly. And agreed about Amenadiel and Linda. Amenadiel even seems to agree, when he tells Linda that he forgot himself for a bit.
Okay, last but not least: I also am at a loss as to why on earth Pierce would think making Chloe fall in love with him would lift his curse. Wtf why?
I think
Overall, even with all those gripes, I still enjoy this season.
Me too. I'll enjoy it even more if Pierce is well and truly gone at season's end.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-25 01:50 pm (UTC)Yeah, Chloe/Pierce only annoys me inasmuch as it's a way to keep Chloe and Lucifer apart, though at least it's a more inventive one than many (and more long running). Also, Pierce is uninteresting as a character. But what's really become like nails on a chalkboard to me is Ella's overly chipper intrusiveness. I think anyone who so vocally ships another pair of characters is likely to aggravate no matter who the couple is.
I agree with rebcake's comment, there are fewer episodes that give us much interaction.
Lauren German is saying that the final one they shot, which was directed by Kevin Alejandro, would be shown in season 4, if there is one.
Hmm. That suggests to me that Chloe and Lucifer get together in the penultimate one. That way people are happy with the storyline regardless of the show continuing, whereas one where they're separated yet again is delayed for the next season.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 06:29 pm (UTC)God, I hope not! It seems too 4th Wall break-y to me.
I think anyone who so vocally ships another pair of characters is likely to aggravate no matter who the couple is.
Agreed. Especially when you can't understand what they see in the pairing.
i>That way people are happy with the storyline regardless of the show continuing
You never know, I suppose. However, co-showrunner Joe Henderson has been pretty open on Twitter about the season ending with a massive cliffhanger.
Possibly it'll be Lucifer showing his wings to Chloe. We'll see.