Buffy season 8 no 23

[shapinglight]

So, went down the comic shop yet again. There were some well-dodgy types hanging about outside, but when I mentioned this to Comic Shop Boy, he just got this big grin on his face and said he was just waiting for them to start something. Then he indicated the enormous stick hanging on the back of the shop door and went on to say he had a claw hammer under the till, but he reckons he's more likely to get away with it in court if he uses the stick.

Erm, yes.

Spoilers for the comic within



Things I liked

The cover is great, of course

The best thing about this issue is that Buffy seemed more like Buffy. At least, I think this is a good thing. It's not so good if the reason why she hasn't seemed very Buffy-like in almost every issue up to now is that all the other writers (including Joss) just haven't written her very well. Dunno. She seemed a lot less cut off from everyone and the decisions she took were more tempered with reason/compassion and a lot less designed to make everyone hate the Slayers even more.

All things being equal, encountering Simone up close and personal should be a valuable lesson to Buffy, I think, but only time will see if she's learned it.

I like that Buffy and Andrew seem to be travelling by public transport like ordinary people, instead of using Willow Air or the Slayers' very own private jet or whatever. After last issue, I almost expected them to get to Italy via submarine. Mind you, I expect Simone's 'Slayer Island' will be important to the plot at some point, so now the Slayers have an island too along with all the castles.

I also like that the new 'control room' is a gimcrack affair with cables all over the place. That's more like it.

Spike finally gets a namecheck, which is good, I suppose. I just wish it hadn't been from Andrew

Which brings me on neatly to what I didn't like

Andrew. I'm sorry. I just don't like him. I don't care if he is Head Cheerleader for Team Spike. That doesn't make me like him any better.

Having said which, it's fine that Buffy refused to hand him over to Simone and thinks of him as part of her 'family.' Every family has members that the other members wish would bugger off and never be seen again. Not that I think the readers are supposed to think that Buffy thinks that about Andrew. But I do.

Couldn't help thinking that Buffy wasn't so quick to not walk away from her people when Spike was burning to death in the Hellmouth. And no, I don't think we're supposed to think that she's thinking about that when she refuses to abandon Andrew.

I have no opinion either way as to whether we're supposed to think that Buffy knows Spike is alive or not. I'm also a bit puzzled as to why this issue feels so much like filler when the Simone plot is probably quite important. However, it does. Truthfully, I was bored.

I also still don't feel we've been shown the seriousness of the situation with regard to the human population turning against the Slayers. Yes, Buffy and the others keep saying things are bad, but apart from the Harmony issue (no 21) and Harmony's brief cameo in no 22, there's no sense of it. And the way Buffy, Simone and pretty much everyone keeps saying that humans all think vampires are the good guys now is rather getting on my nerves. Not everyone likes reality TV and lots of people loathe Paris Hilton. I don't think they'd much care for a vampire version of her either or be impressed by Harmony ripping someone's throat out on live TV, even if that person had tried to kill her.

Finally, so Andrew is some kind of cutting edge geneticist now, is he, who can revive extinct species? When did that happen?

I know this review isn't very good but I found it really hard to think of anything interesting to say about this issue. It seemed so thin. In fact, they all do. I should probably have stuff to say about Buffy waving a real, actual gun around, which is probably supposed to indicate either a) she's all grown up now or b) things are getting serious, but I honestly can't think of anything more than that.

7 out of 10. Probably, I should give it more, but like I said, the issue was thin pickings IMO, plus I'm getting impatient now. Can we please get on with the Twilight story!

Comments

[rahirah]

The problem with everyone thinking vampires are good is... most of them really aren't. The average person, encountering a vampire, is going to get severely hurt or eaten, and I can't see how even the best PR campaign can get around that. Especially if most of the population of LA is supposed to remember being sent to hell.

And the thing is, people don't HAVE to see vampires as good to see Slayers as a cure which may be almost as bad as the disease. In retrospect, I think the story would have worked better if they'd gotten to this point in ten or fifteen issues rather than 20+.

[shapinglight]

Especially if most of the population of LA is supposed to remember being sent to hell.

To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Buffy comic just totally ignored everything that's happened in the Angel comic, but yes, otherwise you're right. There's no way your average person could have an encounter with an average Buffyverse vampire and come away from it thinking vampires are a good thing.

In retrospect, I think the story would have worked better if they'd gotten to this point in ten or fifteen issues rather than 20+.

I agree. I might feel otherwise if the meanders the story has taken interested me more, but they don't.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I don't care if he is Head Cheerleader for Team Spike. That doesn't make me like him any better.

It's almost like a character supremely loving a loveable character doesn't make that character loveable or even likeable themselves. Did that make sense? *coughs*Spider*coughs*

I also still don't feel we've been shown the seriousness of the situation with regard to the human population turning against the Slayers.

I think that time is coming towards the end, though. And will be more fully realized in Retreat, too.

[shapinglight]

*coughs*Spider*coughs*

Oh yes, it made perfect sense. In fact, the fact that Andrew likes Spike so much makes me feel a bit the way it obviously makes Spike feel in Damage.

I hope you're right about the other thing, but it doesn't change the fact that though the reality TV-viewing part of the population may be stupid enough to think vampires are a good thing, there are an awful lot of people out there who don't view reality TV or don't like it.

As Barb says above, given the way the Slayers have been behaving (nicking submarines etc), the general populace might well come to the conclusion that they're a threat and in fact wouldn't be far wrong, given Simone, but suddenly thinking vampires are a bunch of fluffy kittens isn't necessary for it to happen. I need to see more evidence of all this vampires!yay!slayers!boo! stuff than just Buffy and co talking about it.

Even so, as someone observed on Whedonesque, it's all getting a bit X-men like.

[yourlibrarian]

You know, I'm starting to be more entertained by your tales of Comic Shop Boy than the comics themselves :D

[deird1]

Only starting to? I've been reading these entries for Comic Shop Boy for a while now...

[shapinglight]

Well, he is very entertaining in an alarming kind of way.

[quinara]

I actually quite like Andrew, and having read 2maggie2's recap this sounds kind of like an issue I might like. The thing is I have absolutely no urge to seek it out - these days the comics verse feels so disconnected from anything real that the only feeling I've got left for it is some hope of ship validation. I think if I were reading them I'd be feeling the same 'meh' as you are. It's kind of a shame.

I like that Buffy and Andrew seem to be travelling by public transport like ordinary people, instead of using Willow Air or the Slayers' very own private jet or whatever.

But why aren't they doing that anymore? Changing things now without explanation is as bad as starting it without any...

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

why aren't they doing that anymore?

Because Buffy and Andrew are making a quick dash over to Italy from Scotland while Willow and Xander stay behind to keep things going, since they're on a deadline and have lots of crises to manage all at once. Presumably their private aircraft are already all in use that day. :-)

[shapinglight]

But why aren't they doing that anymore?

Heh! I don't know. Maybe the privates jets are all in for repairs (they are living in the US comics version of the UK). Or maybe Buffy's run out of money because she hasn't robbed a bank for a while?

I have actually enjoyed some issues of this comic. I think I've enjoyed about 9 out of the 23. This isn't one of them, though. I almost thought it was going to be at times, but at the end, I just felt indifferent, sadly. So far, my favourite arc has been the one written by Drew Goddard, which featured an utterly bizarre love affair between Xander and Dracula. I adored that.

IMO, anyone hoping for 'ship validation is onto a loser. I really don't see it happening, not even for the Bangels, who've had it their way for the most part.

[kassto.livejournal.com]

I LOVE your Comic Shop Boy.

And he's clearly trying to impress you with his manly virtues. Protecting his own, and all that.

[shapinglight]

Thing is, though, he's absolutely deadly serious. I think he has anger management issues.

Either that or he's trying to shock me. I'm never quite sure.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Sorry you didn't like it so much. I share your problems with Andrew. And I'm still not sure what to make of him. Certainly Buffy is reacting to him in a good way, given what he's presenting to her. And it's very hard to think that there's more to him than meets the eye. OTOH, if he is still lying about Spike (and his bit on Spike can easily be read that way) there's an interesting undercurrent -- since the whole episode is about how his lie is a bigger problem than the original mistake. It could just be an artifact and the line was just another yank of the shippers. But I can still hope there's more to it. (In other words, this is some kind of foreshadowing of bigger problems to result from Andrew). So we'll see.

I think Buffy is acting better because she's seeing just what some of the bad directions look like -- i.e. Simone. I think the displaced people are a real wake up call for her.

Always glad to get the latest installment about the comic shop guy!

[shapinglight]

And I'm still not sure what to make of him.

I don't think we're supposed to think anything of him beyond aww! how sweet! when he's so made up that Buffy thinks he's part of her family. I don't think he's lying about Spike. I really, honestly think the mention of Spike was just another 'shipper chain-yank. I agree that not knowing whether Buffy knows Spike is alive or not is a massive elephant in the room, but I think Joss is just refusing to see it.

Sorry to be a downer. I was trying to see more in this issue than was on the surface, but in the end decided there wasn't a lot. Maybe I was just in the wrong mood when I read it?

I would like to think that Buffy's encounter with Simone has changed things, though. It certainly should do - which is another reason why I'm puzzled that it happened in what to me seems pretty much another filler issue, though less of one than 22, and a great deal less of one than 20 (the only issue that is completely and totally disposable).

[twilightofmagic.livejournal.com]

Can't comment on the comic as I'm not following it (though a bit displayed that the story which is officially canon is now so elaborated.) Will continue to igore. But I'm interested in the colloquial use of well as in well-dodgy. I first noticed it in Little Britain and after that, of course, heard it everywhere. It's such an interesting way to use the word. Do you recall when it started? It's a fairly recent thing, isn't it? Where it comes from?

[shapinglight]

I don't know when it started, I'm afraid ToM. I think it must be recent as within my life-time. 'Well' is used as an intensifier for lots of things. I could probably say that Comic Shop Boy is 'well-hard.'

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

Andrew. I'm sorry. I just don't like him.

As you may remember, I never did either. However, I have to say that I find comics-Andrew a lot less annoying than TV-Andrew. We don't have to put up with the whiny voice or annoying mannerisms when he's all-text.

(Not that I'm knocking Tom Lenk particularly. It must be one of the most thankless tasks in acting, to play a character who's supposed to be aggravating. The better you do your job, the more the audience will hate you...)

[shapinglight]

We don't have to put up with the whiny voice or annoying mannerisms when he's all-text.

This is true, though his endless wittering is still hard to cope with.

I'm never sure what we were meant to think of Andrew in the show, mainly because all the writers said how much they adored him. I always thought we were supposed to think he was cute and funny rather than aggravating, but who knows?

As I said, I don't begrudge him a place in Buffy's 'family' as long as he's not around that often.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

"Andrew. I'm sorry. I just don't like him. I don't care if he is Head Cheerleader for Team Spike. That doesn't make me like him any better."

Same here. I still find the little git incredibly annoying to say the least.

I've read the issue now and found I was bores shitless with most of it. It also one of the quickest reads I've had for a long time, which didn't help. :0

[shapinglight]

I found it frustrating in a way, because I could see lots of stuff that's important to the overall arc was going on, but somehow or other it just seemed rather dull.

Can't quite put my finger on why. Maybe it was just my mood when I read it?

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I liked this issue. It was surprisingly low-key and low-impact.

The best thing about this issue is that Buffy seemed more like Buffy. At least, I think this is a good thing.

Yup. I thought this issue - as 2maggie2, who I seem to namecheck a lot lately, noted - had some very nice character development (re-development? restitution? reinstallation?) for Buffy. The woman who, a few issues earlier, saw no problem in letting vamps snack upon the populace if it served the greater good, and who only last issue was spouting Nietzsche, now explicitly contradicts Andrew when he says that "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Exactly what it is that changes Buffy's mind is up for grabs, I guess - if it's seeing that her and Simone's and her and Andrew's actions are only barely different, or finally interacting with some actual humans (the little girl) after an entire season locked away in a castle (and why am I thinking of Helen Mirren in The Queen?), or if it's just that this time the victim happens to be someone she knows... there's certainly hope for her yet.

I still don't see why Andrew commands such respect, but I suppose we'll just have to accept that he does.

Of course they skipped the chance to both try and explain why Buffy turned to a life of crime and what she knows about Spike and Angel, but we already know that's not considered important so no big surprise.

I also still don't feel we've been shown the seriousness of the situation with regard to the human population turning against the Slayers.

Yup. If it's supposed to be the development that drives the plot of the entire second half of the season, the least they could do was to actually show it happening.

I should probably have stuff to say about Buffy waving a real, actual gun around

I was actually half-expecting her to execute Simone before I read the issue - after all, if breaking into a shop once years earlier means it's in character for her to become a bankrobber, surely the same must apply to her attempted murder of Faith, eh? ;-) - but by the time she actually got in the position to do it, I wasn't surprised when she didn't. (Strange sentence.) I have a feeling Buffy is starting to work her way up from the rock bottom she never quite hit, and a lot more subtly than I was expecting.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

The woman who, a few issues earlier, saw no problem in letting vamps snack upon the populace if it served the greater good, and who only last issue was spouting Nietzsche, now explicitly contradicts Andrew when he says that "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Of course, reading that back, the opposite of Andrew's statement would be that the needs of the few sometimes outweigh the needs of the many, which would match Buffy's Übermensch mentality from earlier in the season... hmmm.

[kitty-poker1.livejournal.com]

Just sneaking in to tell you I've booked two of the last four remaining tickets for James's event on 2nd May at the Drill Hall. Suki will be my partner in crime, of course. *g*

Where are you planning to stay?

[shapinglight]

Hi, Kitty. Lovely to see you, as always, and will be lovely to see you and Suki in May too. I'll be staying at a hotel with trepkos for the Friday and Saturday nights, and then with my daughter on the Sunday. I hope we can all meet up on the Saturday.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the issue yet, but I couldn't keep myself from reading your thoughts on it. I'll comment later.

I become a fan of Comic Shop Boy!

[shapinglight]

Comic Shop Boy does need a fanclub.

I hope you enjoy the issue, Moscow. I've decided my problem with it is firstly that my expectations are too high and secondly that there's too much Andrew in it.

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

Comic Shop Guy rocks!
And I liked that Spike was mentioned by name, even though everything about him was left vague.
I'll tune in for the Giles&Faith, and hopefully Jane's arc with Oz will be worth checking out as well.

[shapinglight]

Hi, Nata. Lovely to see you.

I'll tune in for the Giles&Faith, and hopefully Jane's arc with Oz will be worth checking out as well.

Yes, I'm looking forward to the Giles & Faith issue too. I expect I'll enjoy Jane's arc, though I have to admit to not being very interested in Oz. Though I quite like the character, he's never interested me much, have to say.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

For the record, here's Scott Allie's comment on the Spike thing:

bamph: Are we supposed to read anything more into Andrew's line about having met Angel and liking Spike more because he's edgier? Buffy doesn't have a reaction really. She gives a weird look after the whole thing including Andrew's comments about liking when her hair was cut. So should we infer anything from that about how much details Buffy knows about the events of Angel season 5 and Andrew's meetings in Damage and TGIQ with Angel and Spike or is this just a throwaway jokey line to once again show Andrew has fan crush on Spike? Was there any real purpose to that bit other than for a little joke to break tension before the showdown with Simone and to acknowledge fan expectations of a Angel/Spike mention in a issue featuring Buffy and Andrew teamed up in Italy?

Scott Allie: I think you're reading more into it than you need to, but I do think you can assume that there's been conversations about this stuff that you haven't heard. But I think what this was here was Andrew thinking it might be the end for him, and wanting to tell Buffy everything of consequence that he hadn't yet had the chance to tell her.

So once again, apparently Buffy knows about Spike. Or not. Or possibly thinks she's been told but has been given patently false information. Whatever it is, it's not important.

[shapinglight]

Thanks for bringing that over. Saves me having to go and look on Slayalive myself.

Whatever it is, it's not important.

Which is pretty much what I thought. :(

I really, really don't get how neither Allie nor Joss can understand that people might actually want to know this stuff.

I also see further down the thread (becuase of course I did go and look for myself) that one of the Bangel extremists asks him a long question about this, LOl-ing at the idea that anyone might have thought Buffy's non-reaction important (because of course any chance to sneer at the 'opposing team' and this woman will take it) and Allie says what Andrew said then was all about him and nothing to do with Buffy at all.