A few Thoughts on Revising Fics

[shapinglight]

I've written a few pages of my plot_wout_porn story. It feels good to have started it.



I probably should have mentioned a while back, too, that I've finished uploading all my stories that can no longer be accessed on my website onto my glassdarklyuk LJ. So if you go to Distorting Mirrors and the story you want to read has been taken down, you can ask to be friended to my other LJ if you're not already. Hmm, suppose this means I have to put Coming of Age and Age of Unreason on a separate filter?

While I was doing the crossover, I re-read some of my old stories. Some of them were better than I expected (mostly the very early ones), while some of them - from what I suppose I should call my 'middle period' were much worse. At some point, I seem to have become infected with the Evil Filler Virus, and there are paragraphs and paragraphs of unnecessary exposition. I thought of revising all the stories but then decided that would be silly (plus take forever). Best to leave them as they stand, and hopefully readers will look at the dates and see for themselves how I started off okay, got a lot worse and then (hopefully) got better again. And some things, I hope, got better in that 'middle period', even if the filler problem got worse.

However, I thought I would make a few exceptions, because some stories I was really proud of at the time and I want them to be the best they can be. Therefore, I picked two of my favourites, Brief Encounter and my magnum opus, Family Reunion, to be revised in light of What I Have Learned About Writing (however little it may be) since I first wrote them. I also plan to revise my Fanged Four story Revenge, because it's really not very good, and it's Fanged Four, so it ought to be.

What (if any) opinions do you have on revising old fics? Yes? No? Sometimes?

Comments

[ex_peasant441]

No, but it still happens sometimes.

[shapinglight]

Ah. I think the only way to truly avoid it would be never to re-read anything.

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

You know me - compulsive reviser. I wouldn't have thought Family Reunion needed revision - it was wonderful ...

[shapinglight]

I think it could probably do with some tightening of the prose. I doubt I should cut much. I hope not anyway, or no more than tiny bits here and there.

[quinara]

I've only ever fixed typos and clunky-isms (eg. repeated words in a sentence/paragraph) when reading old fics. I don't really know what I'd do to them otherwise - most of what's wrong with them is usually there because I've needed to post the fic for a deadline/shut the story down before it became a never-ending WIP/accept that it's done and move on. If I started tinkering around with the actual story of a fic after it had been posted I wouldn't know what to do with myself. I think my head would implode from the fact nothing would ever be "finished".

[shapinglight]

I don't think I'd tinker around with the actual plot or anything, just tighten up the prose etc. For instance, that Fanged Four story I mentioned - when I re-read it, it seemed chockful of unnecessary filler to me. If I pare it down a bit, it will be a much, much better story.

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

Never revise, unless it's a story you really, really like and want to get perfect, because you'll fall down the black hole of revision and never come out! There will always be problems, fix the typos and leave the history of your writing be.

[shapinglight]

Mostly, I agree with you, but as I said, I think I'm going to make an exception for two or three, because I want them to be the best they can be.

[antennapedia.livejournal.com]

It's agony for me to leave old stories as they are, but I find I have to leave them and move on. I wrote it; I made mistakes; I learned from the mistakes; I then progress happily forward to new & different mistakes.

I do fix the odd problem with grammar, spelling, or punctuation I find, though. Line editing is never really finished. Sigh.

[shapinglight]

Line editing is never really finished. Sigh.

This is true. I agree that on the whole it's best to let old stories lie, as it were. There's just a few that I can't bear to see less than as perfect as I can make them.

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

In my opinion, first drafts aren't writing. The craft of writing is revision. When I'm writing my "real" fiction, I consider the first draft just throwing clay on the wheel, and the revision makes that clay into something.

Of course, when it comes to fanfic, I've found I can foist my unshaped clay on people and still be praised for it, so that's what I do. :D

But I do revise a bit now and then. In fact, nearly every time someone comments on an "old" story I go back and change a sentence or fix a typo.

Moderation, of course. One doesn't want to revise to death. My dad is a painter, and he does what we call "Torturing his paintings" - where no matter how many times he's said "That's it, this one is DONE" and then varnishes the painting to make sure he doesn't mess with it, and frames it, and hangs it - we'll find him standing in front of it, on the livingroom wall, with his pallet in hand, dabbing a little more red on a face...

[shapinglight]

In my opinion, first drafts aren't writing. The craft of writing is revision. When I'm writing my "real" fiction, I consider the first draft just throwing clay on the wheel, and the revision makes that clay into something.

I think I agree with this. It's how I feel about my fanfic (except that writing the first draft is such hard work it makes me want to scream), but then I don't write anything else.

And I like your unshaped clay just fine. Fanfic is a whole different animal on the whole and people want different things from it when they read it than they want from original fiction.

Er- well, that's my two penn'orth anyway.

Has your dad ever gone on dabbing at something so much that he - or the rest of you - have felt he's ended up ruining it?

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

He's gotten to points where he's marred it, and then had to take the painting down and /really/ revise it, sometimes changing whole massive chunks - like turning a blue sky red or something - but I've never seen a painting "ruined" - just like our stories you can always fix it again, and it's usually better for it.

Er, usually. I do wish he'd stopped on this one landscape when it was perfect in my mind instead of going back and making it all harsh and scary - but then that might have been what he wanted.

[shapinglight]

I suppose whether something is better or worse is a lot more subjective when it comes to painting. I mean, I think there are universal standards by which you can judge if a story is better or not (aren't there?), whereas with painting, it's far more in the eye of the beholder.

Or is that total bollocks?

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

I think there's an element of subjectivity in both.

My first reaction is "Nuh-uh! Art is waaay easier to judge quality in!" but that's just me thinking visually. You tell a random stranger you're a writer, and they have no way of knowing the quality of the writing without reading, whereas with a painting, you can just LOOK.

However, the writing craft as art has a lot less experimentation and "abstract" art... like representational art, we are mostly all striving to achieve verisimilitude. And I'd argue that's because it's harder to represent reality in words than pictures, so we haven't perfected it, even after centuries, and so there's no drive to the abstract, save in poetry. Tone poems are the cubism of words, I think.

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

Just to get back on topic...

I think revising a painting and a story are analogous. And while my dad has never "ruined" a painting through over-revision, he has many times clearly gotten to the point where the revision doesn't add anything. That's the point you gotta stop. ;)

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

hee! I can't stop talking!

To get back to are there universal standards by which you can judge if a story is better or not:

My answer is: I wish.

*cries softly*

If there were, would people be buying Dan Brown's dreck? Or *shudder* Twilight?

Just like with representational art, most people can judge competency in the bare bones of the craft, but that doesn't stop them from thinking Thomas Kinkade is as good as Manet.

(I am gonna milk this art vs fiction topic until it bleeeds!)

[shapinglight]

To get back to are there universal standards by which you can judge if a story is better or not:

My answer is: I wish.

*cries softly*

If there were, would people be buying Dan Brown's dreck? Or *shudder* Twilight?

There is that, and the same does apply to art, now I think about it. Hence the popularity of that oriental lady with the green face.

Heh! Couldn't have been more wrong really, could I? 'Better' seems to depend very much on POV.

Or maybe we just have to wait for 100 years or so and see what from this time period people are still reading/looking at. Then decide on its merit.

Assuming people are either a) still reading, b) still making art c) not extinct.

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

I think what survives is that which touches on real human emotion. Stuff that doesn't change. Truth with a capital T.

We still read Anna Karenina, not because we care about upper class Russian romance, but because the characters are realistically drawn.

At least, that's what I'm banking my money on. My Dad, who hardly ever reads fiction, when I told him I was seriously pursuing a writing career (against his advice) said, "Well, as long as you write something true, it'll survive you."

[shapinglight]

We still read Anna Karenina, not because we care about upper class Russian romance, but because the characters are realistically drawn.

True. though it's not a novel I care for much.

[shapinglight]

That's the point you gotta stop. ;)

That's true, though I wonder if the same quite applies to writing. Maybe it does?

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

I once spent two weeks waffling back and forth between "the" and "a" in a sentence.

Before I realized that I should just pick one and be done with it. :P

("It was the boy who caught her attention" is vastly different from "It was a boy who caught her attention"!!)

Uh... I don't rightly remember which I set on. I think it was "the".

[shapinglight]

:Boggles:

Though can quite understand it. Spent weeks and weeks trying to decide on a word at the very end of Family Reunion.

[shapinglight]

whereas with a painting, you can just LOOK.

This is true. I guess I meant it depends on who is doing the looking as much as anything.

And I do get what you mean about writing being a more 'conservative' form of expression, if I can use that word. Experimental fiction often gets rather short shrift (but then again, it's often very difficult to read).

[shadowscast.livejournal.com]

I'm with quinara et al.; I'll revise typos, spelling/grammar etc. when I find them, but anything beyond that I leave alone. I tend to hate most of my old writing (except for when I'm okay with it!), and I fear that if I started "fixing" it I'd never stop. Or that I would eventually just decide it's all beyond fixing and try to wipe it from the internet.

Oh, that said, I did go back and fix a plot hole once—someone pointed out to me that I had Spike (as a vampire) entering someone's house without an invite. Oops! So I went back and rewrote the scene sufficiently to plug the hole.

[shapinglight]

Oh, that said, I did go back and fix a plot hole once—someone pointed out to me that I had Spike (as a vampire) entering someone's house without an invite. Oops! So I went back and rewrote the scene sufficiently to plug the hole.

Yes, I think you have to fix that sort of thing. I realised I'd done something similar in one of my very early stories, where I had chipped Spike bite Giles and not feel any pain.

Mostly I think it's best not to re-read old stories, because of the pain-factor involved. Having said which, one of my favourite lines from all my stories comes from a very old one.

[mabel-marsters.livejournal.com]

I'm with the typo/grammar brigade. I like being able to look back at how I've (hopefully) improved from my first fic.

But I totally agree with you revising your favourites. There is one of mine that I will one day have a good go at! LOL!

[shapinglight]

There is one of mine that I will one day have a good go at! LOL!

Yes, finding the time isn't always easy, is it? I have one of these stories I want to revise saved to my flashdrive, but when I'll ever get round to looking at it, I have no idea.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_sharvie_/]

I've just been pondering this myself as I take a few steps back into fandom life. I think it sucks I have two WIPs on the books and one was very much loved. So I reread it thinking about picking it back up and cringed over every word. I don't see a way to continue writing it without doing major revisions but I just don't see that happening either. So I'm sorta stuck. I'll be looking back at this post to see what other people say cause I'm still on the fence about this.

But for fics that are complete and posted, I wouldn't touch them. I look at them as a time capsule. Like this is what I was writing when, type of thing.

But the WIPs....that's another story. How do I pick something up from years ago when I'm not the same writer, nor even the same person I was back then? *sigh*

[shapinglight]

Nice George icon. He's such a sweetie!

I'm not sure what to advise about your WIP. Would it really be so hard to revise what you've written so far? If it was something you really loved and you want to continue with it, it might be worth it. Who know, the fact that you feel you're a different person now might end up influencing the way the story progresses in a positive way.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_sharvie_/]

I don't know. With my new life perspective it might be a completely different story, in which case, I should just start a new one instead of destroying a half finished old one.

Or maybe you're right and new knowledge might make it better but again, it'd be a whole new thing. Hmmmm. *grumble*

Oo! And I adore George! :D I admit, he had to grow on me but now....he's my guy totally!

[shapinglight]

He's a sweetie pie. And if you want to start writing fanfic again, starting with something you loved and going on from there is as good a place to start as any.

[rahirah]

If a story bugs you enough to make you want to revise it, by all means revise. I don't do it often, but sometimes it's just necessary.

[rahirah]

(OTOH, I seem to be the only person in the universe who doesn't hate her old stories - I re-read and think "That bit's kind of clumsy," or "I'd do that differently now," but I don't think I've ever cringed or wanted to erase the story from the web. On the occasions that I've made serious revisions to a story, it's been to fix what I see as problems with plot, character motivation, or continuity.)

[shapinglight]

I'm reasonably happy with a lot of my early stuff too. Wish the Filler Demon had stayed away, though.

[shapinglight]

It doesn't bug me exactly. I just want the three I've picked to be as near perfect as I (a very imperfect writer) can make them, in the case of the first two, and doesn't make me cringe in the case of the third.

[madame-meretrix.livejournal.com]

oh man. i've made a vow never to re-read old stuff, because when i do? i totally always fiddle with it. and while i think it's ok to do so, there comes a point where it's no longer the original story, you know? it takes an act of will for me not to just pull down practically everything. lol

but the thing is, what if one day in the future, you go back and wonder why you pulled out the stuff you pulled out now, you know? i feel like it's potentially a neverending process.

[shapinglight]

but the thing is, what if one day in the future, you go back and wonder why you pulled out the stuff you pulled out now, you know? i feel like it's potentially a neverending process.

Hee! This is true. I shall certainly approach any revisions to Family Reunion with a great deal of caution. Would hate to ruin it in the process of trying to make it better.

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

Taking the necessity of correcting typos as read... I guess it depends on how attached you are to the concept of the story. Personally, once a story is done, it is out of my system and I see no point in going back (plus, the idea of the work involved kind of horrifies me *g*) I have a sort of mild, tolerant fondness for my early stories.
Tinkering with the story line... why not write a new and different story.
Tinkering with the text... are you doing it for yourself, so you can feel good about the story? If so, then you should do it. If you weren't writing for your own satisfaction, why would you do it at all?

[shapinglight]

Tinkering with the text... are you doing it for yourself, so you can feel good about the story? If so, then you should do it. If you weren't writing for your own satisfaction, why would you do it at all?

Exactly. I do want to feel two of these stories are as good as they can be, and that the other fulfills its potential. Erm - or something like that.

[candleanfeather.livejournal.com]

Revising can be fun and interesting and can open a whole big barrel of problems especially if your style and ideas have changed a lot in between : how to make the two states of your writing coincide (I'm not sure it's really possible to go back to an anterior state of writing style) and of course the specific problems linked to your current way of writing... Doing it in a "how would I write this story now?" spirit could be instructive though, but I'd do it in a separate file so as to keep intact my first version (typos apart of course)and have a look at the transformations in the writing style.

I'm going to ask you a question I've wanted to ask you for a long time. Don't feel obliged to answer or to do it here (you can PM if you prefer): as a reader my favourite story from you is Vampire Winter. I've read it several times and I think it bears these re reads. What do you think of it from your writer POV? What are its strengths and weaknesses?

[shapinglight]

Interesting question. I'll have to mull that one over and get back to you. I may have to re-read it too. It's been a while.

I certainly intend to makes copies of the fics I plan to tinker with, just in case I mess them up completely when I try to revise. Luckily, I have multiple copies all over the place, as Word documents, as web pages etc etc.