shapinglight | (no subject)

I just made one post so probably shouldn't make another, but all the posts doing the rounds at the moment about Immortal Spike and Mortal Buffy and all the many variations on that scenario found in fanfic and how the characters deal with it has got me thinking about the question too, though as usual my thoughts are murky and ill-defined.

In theory, I like the idea of writing a fic in which a much older Buffy is still in a relationship with Spike. It promises both horrible angst (they're out and someone thinks Spike is Buffy's son. Aargh! How will she live down the humiliation?) or lots of black humour (they're out and someone thinks Spike is Buffy's son, cue lots of French farce-like pratting about), or both. However, I suspect I will never attempt it, mainly because if I write a Buffy much nearer in age to myself, I'm afraid I'll end up Mary Sue-ing myself into the story. Hmm. Does this concern anyone else, or is it just me?

I have a whole post brewing about ageing in general, but maybe another day?

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From:

kseenaa.livejournal.com

I think that idea is very interesting. And I, as a reader, would love to read such a story. :-) I think they did the immortal man/mortal woman thing very well in Highlander 1, actually. :-)

From:

shapinglight

Do you mean with - damn, can't remember the character's name. That blonde woman? If it was her, yes it was done pretty well, but then they killed her, didn't they?

From:

kseenaa.livejournal.com

Yeah, she died of old age, actually. :-) Then he buried her and left. Quite nice moment in that movie. The other two (or is it three) Highlander movies suck mayorly, but the first one is quite nice. :-)

From:

shapinglight

Oh, you mean the films. Sorry. I thought you meant the TV show. Yes, I agree, they handled that well in the first film.

From:

bogwitch.livejournal.com

I can't say it's a subject that I'd be interested in tackling or reading at all, it's been done.

From:

shapinglight

Ah. I wouldn't know. Haven't read much Spuffy fic for a long time.

From:

bogwitch.livejournal.com

Neither have I.

From:

quinara

My theory is that Spike, master of disguise (:P) dyes his hair salt-and-pepper-stylee and tries to act less like a puppy, at least until Buffy retires, after which he starts acting like a toyboy (who then ages again to become an older toyboy). And he makes sure no one will be thinking 'son'...

From:

hello-spikey.livejournal.com

mmmmmmmmm Toyboy....

He's a giver!!

From:

quinara

Yup!

From:

shapinglight

Aww! That's so sweet. And it would work.

From:

rahirah

I dunno. I've written Buffy my age and older, but Buffy's very, very, not-me no matter how old she is.

From:

shapinglight

Well, since a lot of women grow to resemble their mothers as they get older, I'd always assumed that Buffy would become a sort of hard-bitten version of Joyce, and since I identify with Joyce in the show, that might make it more of a problem.

From:

hello-spikey.livejournal.com

There's nothing wrong with having an ego-replacement character... I think the danger of Mary-Sue-Dom is having a character who is not properly realized - the character so identified with that his or her flaws are written out, and the universe starts to warp around her weight of importance.

I don't see you EVER doing that. You have too much self-knowledge.

From:

shapinglight

I think the danger of Mary-Sue-Dom is having a character who is not properly realized - the character so identified with that his or her flaws are written out, and the universe starts to warp around her weight of importance.

Yes, I know I wasn't really using Mary Sue in its accepted sense. On the other hand, I think I have written myself in my stories before, notably as Wesley or Giles. I'm just afraid if I did it with an older Buffy it would be an awful lot more obvious.

I would try my best not to do it, of course, if I ever did attempt such a story.

From:

jamalov29.livejournal.com

It still a sore subject to me and in the same time it is fascinating and what makes their story so captivating and tragic. Assuming they're together post NFA , canon! Spike and Buffy have the age issue to deal with. I'm not sure I would be able to read emotionally heavy angst for a long tale but one shot sounds good.
I realize that what sparked my initial curiosity and the original post was the desire to explore the pain that Spike would go through at Buffy's death after long years of happiness ( and some messy and tormented situations but it goes with spuffy ,which I did in my French ficlet .

A much older Buffy in relationship with younger Spike must be hard to write because of the angst indeed. But I don't think that you would end up Mary Sue-ing yourself , if you never did it before there's no reason to do it even with a Buffy closer to your age .

From:

shapinglight

Well, it wouldn't be Mary Sue-ing in the accepted sense, in that I would be very unlikely to make Buffy in my story near-perfect. However, I can't say I haven't caught myself writing myself into stories before, even if at several removes.

Plus, the first time I wrote Buffy someone told me I wrote her too 'British,' and I suspect that would get worse if she were older, simply because I would be trying to imagine what she would be like. With young Buffy, we already know what she's like.

From:

helenkacan.livejournal.com

That story would fascinate me.
Why?
Well, considering the fact that today women can be older than men is still untraditional but not unheard of, you could let the relationship easily last a decade; at 20 years, Spike would probably have to do some ageing modifications. And I think he would too, just to spare Buffy the perceived humiliation. OTOH, we don't know if humanity will ever get over these stupid obsessions, so we can always hold out hope.

But I feel that Spike would be, considering his past loyalties, the most devoted lover. I also believe that, because he himself cannot age, he would be eternally fascinated by the way Buffy's body would change. He'd be all "let me see" and she'd bat his hand away from a stretch mark, wrinkle or something else. In many ways, I think he'd be the best thing that ever happened to her, to alter her path from one of shallow superficiality regarding beauty, fashion (the Cordelia Chase Finishing Academy), etc.

Of course, it'd be a much easier scenario if they had oodles of money at hand. I imagine a vampire version of Gringott's, where funds are kept in perpetuity and withdrawn in discretion.

Ohhhhh, please, please write it. Besides, it's not a Mary-Sue unless you're creating an implausible character. You'd just be putting in bits and pieces of your life experience into it.

From:

shadowscast.livejournal.com

But I feel that Spike would be, considering his past loyalties, the most devoted lover. I also believe that, because he himself cannot age, he would be eternally fascinated by the way Buffy's body would change. He'd be all "let me see" and she'd bat his hand away from a stretch mark, wrinkle or something else. In many ways, I think he'd be the best thing that ever happened to her, to alter her path from one of shallow superficiality regarding beauty, fashion (the Cordelia Chase Finishing Academy), etc.

I like that idea very much!

From:

shapinglight

That's interesting and I like your idea. I would like to think that Spike would be like that, but then I remember him saying in School Hard to that teacher he killed, "I'm a veal kind of guy, and you're too old to eat."

Hmm. No doubt it would be different with someone he loved, and I do like your scenario.

From:

next_to_normal

However, I suspect I will never attempt it, mainly because if I write a Buffy much nearer in age to myself, I'm afraid I'll end up Mary Sue-ing myself into the story. Hmm. Does this concern anyone else, or is it just me?

Well, Buffy's pretty close to my age in canon, and I don't worry about Mary Sue-ing her (or any of the other characters). I think, unless your personality is already very similar to one of the characters, if you're conscious of keeping them in character, Mary Sue-ing just based on age isn't very likely.

That doesn't mean you can't take aspects of your life that are affected by age and incorporate them if it makes sense - if anything, it would probably make for a more realistic older!Buffy to know what she'd be dealing with at that age.

From:

angearia.livejournal.com

I'm around the same age as Buffy too so I know I'm always falling in love with vampires, killing other vampires, coming back from heaven, slaying the evil and looking hot whilst doing it so it's really hard for me to not Mary Sue myself in. :P

From:

next_to_normal

Well, everyone knows you're the bad slayer.

Also - happy birthday!

From:

angearia.livejournal.com

I gots the leather pants to prove it, lady!

And thanks! *hugs*

From:

shapinglight

I think, unless your personality is already very similar to one of the characters, if you're conscious of keeping them in character, Mary Sue-ing just based on age isn't very likely.

I'm not sure I agree, though of course I don't mean Mary Sue-ing in the accepted sense of the phrase, as in making the character near-perfect.

I think there's less danger of anyone writing themselves into a young Buffy no matter what their age, because we already know what young Buffy is like since we saw her on screen. Older Buffy is more a matter of guesswork.

From:

shadowscast.livejournal.com

Thus far I've largely avoided this issue in my (Spike/Xander) stories by making Spike mortal!

It's an interesting idea (the long-term implications of a mortal/immortal pairing). Of course another thing you'd have to cope with is the story setting being several decades in the future -- with all the speculative-fiction complications of that!

From:

shapinglight

Of course another thing you'd have to cope with is the story setting being several decades in the future -- with all the speculative-fiction complications of that!

I didn't even think of that! Flying cars?