(no subject)

[shapinglight]

Using this icon in honour of the fact that I can't seem to open my flist at the moment without seeing mention of poor old Riley. I think it states very succinctly what it is about the character that irritates a lot of people. Re: the other topic under discussion here and there, I haven't a lot to say, except that people should remember it's only a comic.

Yeah, yeah. I know perfectly well I can get up a good head of steam about trivialities on occasion, but you see, that just shows I know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, not going to talk about that, but about Dollhouse season 1 ep 6, which I watched this evening. Spoilers, obviously, and please don't spoiler me for anything later.



This was the episode everyone got all excited about, wasn't it? I can see why. I enjoyed it very much - found it quite gripping, in fact. Sort-of fell in love with Ms DeWitt and loved the twist with Ballard's neighbour being a doll. Also liked the computer genius character with his fantasy about his dead wife, which was both poignant and utterly, utterly sleazy. In fact, you could say that about the whole show.

I had the feeling while I was watching the scene between this character and Ballard that I was watching Joss talking about life, the universe and everything, which was sort of weird. And creepy. And I can't now explain why I felt this, as I can't remember what they talked about.

Which could well be because I got distracted by the big fight scene between Ballard and Echo in the Chinese restaurant, which - well, you knew I was going to say I enjoyed it, didn't you? I know that on some level it was just another sleazy male fantasy - small, pretty girl in very tight jeans beats up big muscular guy - but whenever Echo does this, I just feel like Faith's back (no doubt because Eliza is a bit one-note, and Faith-like is what she does best). And then there was Echo's weird speech to Ballard, which I don't know whether she was programmed by DeWitt and co to say or not. And then, most awesome of all, the 'neighbour' doll suddenly doing a 180 and beating the crap out of the rapist. Should have all these thinky thoughts on that, including how it worked much better as female wish fulfilment than the AR in season 6 of BtVS, but it's late and I'm tired so I'll leave it at that.

I do like this show, have to say, Ep 5 notwithstanding.

Finally, the writing isn't going terribly well. I know no one asked, but I thought I'd tell you anyway. :(

Comments

[enisy.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad you're enjoying Dollhouse. Almost all the episodes from that point on are high-quality work, I think you'll love them. :) (And Season 2 started on a good foot, as well, but that's farther down the road for you...)

[shapinglight]

Yes, I've still a way to go, but so far I'm enjoying the series an awful lot more than I expected to.

It's nice to have something Jossian to enthuse over, the comic having been such a let down.

[tx-cronopio.livejournal.com]

you know I cannot pass up an opportunity to use this icon :)

[shapinglight]

Nor should you. Cute dog. And Riley is a good name for a dog (more than it is for a person, in fact, as still cannot get my head around the American habit of using surnames as first names).

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Okay where are these Riley posts? I wanna read!

LOL.

[deird1]

Err... going from memory, check out gabrielleabelle, 2maggie2, rahirah, and elisi.

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Thank you guys!

I've read gabrielleabelle's Riley/Spike meta but I haven't seen anyone else's. (but that's what happens when you're busy with rl)

:)

[shapinglight]

Poor old Riley! I can't help liking the big idiot. And Marc Blucas is a total sweetie.

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

*sighs* I just got through reading all that.

I will never, ever understand fandom's reaction to Riley.

[shapinglight]

I think the major problem is the way ME chose to write the character out of the series. It's highly possible they didn't think it through properly (wouldn't be the first time, or indeed the last, that a character's been lumbered like that).

Anyway, I like him mostly. Plus, he sort of reminds me of the Enormous Boyfriend.

ETA: should add, I think several people have been rewatching BtVS and got to Into the Woods at the same time, and got cross for Buffy's sake.

[shapinglight]

Also, I think, shadowkat67 and green_maia and molly_may.

It's been a Rileyfest (though not necessarily one he would enjoy).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Mine was a scattershot post...

People are weird. I posted long essays on other things this week and what post gets attention? The scattershot post that briefly mentions, briefly I might add, Riley.

Aggravating. Particularly since I spent the least amount of time on it. It was done on a whim and I considered deleting it twice before I posted it. LOL!

[shapinglight]

Well, it's been Riley week, so I suppose it's not that surprising. :) Can understand your frustration, though.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

I'm *so* glad you loved this episode -- and your post here reminds me of just why it was that I went into hyper-squee after watching it. I loved everything about the computer mogul and the way it really was sweet and disgusting at the exact same time. And DeWitt. And the fight scenes. And the twists.

No spoilers, but it's probably best to not have the highest of high expectations going forward. Some episodes are great. Others not so much (though none as weak as #5).

I hope the writing picks up for you!

[shapinglight]

and your post here reminds me of just why it was that I went into hyper-squee after watching it.

I can definitely understand why, especially after ep 5, which was so draggy. Can hardly believe Tim Minear wrote it. If the remaining episodes are better than that, I think I'll probably cope with them not quite being up to the standard of this one.

Forgot to mention the 'man in the street' portion of this ep. Favourite bit was definitely the guy who reckoned it would be sweet to be gay and then forget about it. The look his girlfriend gave him was hilarious. I also like the fact that the actress playing the 'neighbour' doll actually looks like a normal woman. She's very pretty, but really chubby for Hollywood. Good for Joss.

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

It was so obviously Joss.

[shapinglight]

You think so? I'm glad it's not just me.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Glad you're enjoying Dollhouse so much. It really gets going with Ep.6. Before that ep I had a slight feeling of going on advanced enthusiam for the show (like I did the first year of S8), but after that I really had the impression it found it's footing and it's own signature that'll make me stick with it.

And yes Eliza is best when kicking ass.

[shapinglight]

And yes Eliza is best when kicking ass.

She is, isn't she? I always have to give myself a stern talking to to remind myself that she is not in fact a super powered slayer and shouldn't really be able to beat these men up at all. Her fight with Ballard is really a bit ridiculous, given how many times we've seen him win fights with much tougher opponents than tiny weeny little Echo. Can't help enjoying it, though.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

hehe, oh I can live with small able girl beats up big guy. It's mostly the heels she wears while doing so that make it ridiculous to me.

I got this picture in my mind, where Topher collected motoric imprints of high heel racers that are basic programming for every active.

[shapinglight]

It's mostly the heels she wears while doing so that make it ridiculous to me.

Yes, she's lucky not to have crippled herself really.

[quinara]

poignant and utterly, utterly sleazy

I thought (and still think) the killer moment for that is at the end, when imprinted!Echo "wants" to complete the engagement - what does it all mean?? I still can't work out whether to be 'yay, imprint asserting herself' or 'that is MESSED UP'.

I know that on some level it was just another sleazy male fantasy - small, pretty girl in very tight jeans beats up big muscular guy

I love how that imprint plays with Ballard's inability to switch of his fantasy that she's a scared little kitten after all. Oh, I love all of that ending sequence really...

Finally, the writing isn't going terribly well. I know no one asked, but I thought I'd tell you anyway. :(

:(

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

I still can't work out whether to be 'yay, imprint asserting herself' or 'that is MESSED UP'.

Have you heard Joss's DVD commentary on that scene?

He can't decide either... :-)

[quinara]

No, actually - heh, I didn't give the commentaries much thought when I bought the DVD, because I never really got into them on Buffy or Angel. Nice to know I'm not alone though!

[shapinglight]

I still can't work out whether to be 'yay, imprint asserting herself' or 'that is MESSED UP'.

I'm not sure either. I half think that someone had tampered with the imprint and she was giving Ballard a Message From Mysterious Hidden Players. But maybe that was just part of the plan and Ms DeWitt wanted Ballard to think that?

And yes, that moment when she gives Ballard this wounded look and he backs off and she slugs him one. Did enjoy that, must say (though I actually like Ballard, because he had sex with the 'neighbour' doll and obviously really likes her, even though a big point is made of her not being Hollywood perfect).

[quinara]

I meant more the wife imprint, but, yes, the 'secret message' is nice and ambiguous...

And I can't say more about Ballard, because it's informed by spoilers!! :(

[shapinglight]

Oops, sorry. Completely forgot about the wife imprint. Yes, it was a bit weird to say the least, but it sort of made you like Rich Computer Game Creator Guy more to see that he and his dead wife had had what looked like a relationship of equals. The 'porn' argument is very funny.

That is, until you remember yet again that this is his fantasy, which he's paid for and she's not really his wife at all.

[calturner.livejournal.com]

Glad to hear you're still enjoying Dollhouse. :)

There does seem to be an awful lot of Riley posts around at the moment. And as for the comics, the less I say about them the better.

[shapinglight]

And as for the comics, the less I say about them the better.

I agree, especially after the last couple of days when far too much was said about them.

[shylahmask.livejournal.com]

And then, most awesome of all, the 'neighbour' doll suddenly doing a 180 and beating the crap out of the rapist.

I remember very clearly that part making me squee a little inside.

*pets poor Riley*

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Nah. Riley's in a better place. We don't need to feel sorry for him.

[shapinglight]

I remember very clearly that part making me squee a little inside.

It's definitely a squeeworthy moment. The third flower is green. Heh!

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Yes, Man On the Street contains some of the best ass-kicking evah! *swoon* Plus, I will never stop laughing at the "nothing queenie" interview. *snort* The Bouncy the Rat guy breaks my heart -- and yet. Oh! And, "Porn!" How can we not love, "Porn!"

Okay, I go for the funny, it's true. But the funny mixed with the stellar Girls Kicking Ass just felt like a warm bath. Ahhhhhhh.

There are three flowers in a vase...

[shapinglight]

Yes, Man On the Street contains some of the best ass-kicking evah! *swoon*

Yep. That's what I thought, though I loved the ass-kicking scene in ep 2 as well. The "nothing queenie" interview was completely hilarious. It's so nice to find something new by Joss I actually enjoy. Have to admit, was beginning to think he'd lost it.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

On the first bit? LOL! (Love the icon. May swipe.)
And methinks you need a more varied flist. (Most of mine basically talks about what they did today or watched today.)

What was Ep 5 again? I forgot. Was it the cult episode? I really did not like the cult episode.

Episode 6 is Man on the Street - right? That in my opinion should have been the first episode of the season. Lots of layers in it. I actually think Whedon figured out Dollhouse with that episode.

[shapinglight]

The icon's great, isn't it? It's by marshmallow if you want to snag it.

My flist is actually quite varied, but at least five of them have been talking about Riley recently and attracting lots of comments to their posts. Couldn't help noticing.

Ep 5 is the cult one. Really not good. I can hardly believe Tim Minear wrote it (though of course he also wrote That Old Gang of Mine, which also isn't very good).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

but at least five of them have been talking about Riley recently and attracting lots of comments to their posts.

I hear you, I had at least four and mine is really varied. When I posted my comment on it - all I'd seen was gab's post and I thought she nailed my feelings on the topic, but was discouraged by the 74 responses and counting. (Apparently I wasn't the only one.) ;-)

That and I didn't think petz would link to my post, since it was a kitchen sink post. And my comments were well...off the cuff.

Ep 5 is the cult one. Really not good. I can hardly believe Tim Minear wrote it (though of course he also wrote That Old Gang of Mine, which also isn't very good).

Yep. Thought so. It was the only episode that season that I *really* did not like. Not all that surprised Minear did it - it rings very true of Minear in some respects - his series Drive and The Inside, felt very much that way. The cult episode more or less hit on the bits of Minear's writing that does not work for me. Minear and I have somewhat different worldviews and that may well be part of it - aycheb had a rather good post some time ago, I think when the episode first aired, on what bugged her about Minear's writing - which more or less nailed my own issues. At least I think it was aycheb - hard to remember.

[shapinglight]

Well, I've not got to the stage of reading Dollhouse meta yet. Maybe when I finish the first series?

I haven't seen anything Minear's been involved with since AtS until now.

[yourlibrarian]

I'm afraid Eliza in this series, which revolves around her, just makes me miss Faith. Totally agree about the fight scene. She's not the first actor from the Whedonverse who I thought was great in the part they and, and then later saw in other projects and realized "Oh, it was the part as much as the actor."

On the other hand, some of the actors have been good in a lot of things and make it obvious that it wasn't just the part.

I think no show of Joss' has so obviously been meant to be discussed and thought about. That was really obvious with the first episode of the second season. And as Jon Stewart sometimes says, it does not talk to us as if we were children.

And will have to catch up on the Riley thing ::goes off to look::

[shapinglight]

Yes, I fear Eliza is pretty one-note and it would be much better to write to her strengths. However, since she's en exec producer on this show, I suppose she has quite a bit of say in her role and maybe she has this notion that she's a more versatile actress than she actually is.

I agree that the show has Talking Point written all over it. I like that, though in many ways it's a colder show than anything Joss has done before. I just hope Joss gets all 13 eps of season 2 to round off the story properly (am not currently sanguine he'll get more, given I hear the ratings were not good).

[brutti-ma-buoni.livejournal.com]

Oh bliss, someone only just ahead of me (or indeed at parity since I've just watched ep 6 tonight). I too am deeply confused about who imprinted Echo to say what she did - confused in a good way, I should add. Getting Ballard off the scent, or another twist in the plot? And what is the Dollhouses' purpose? I'd never thought there was something beneath the sleaze. Confused, but gratified.

I was also (oddly) pleased that they included Sierra's trauma - I tend to flinch from gratuitous rape references, but it was a) taken seriously, including by 'baddies' like Adelle and b) serving to make the point about the total vulnerability of the dolls, which reinforces the exploitation of the whole situation still further.

(Also, is it just me or are you confused about Victor and what he's there for? Is he an inside man? Is he the same man Ballard talks to outside? Did I blink and miss that point?)

Mellie took me utterly by surprise, and in a good way. As you say, normal sized women are rare enough on tv, without turning out to be kickass hypnotised rapist-assassins. I may have cheered a little over that.

[shapinglight]

Oh bliss, someone only just ahead of me (or indeed at parity since I've just watched ep 6 tonight)

Hooray! Except that you may well get ahead of me now as I can't watch any more till next week.

I was also (oddly) pleased that they included Sierra's trauma - I tend to flinch from gratuitous rape references, but it was a) taken seriously, including by 'baddies' like Adelle and b) serving to make the point about the total vulnerability of the dolls, which reinforces the exploitation of the whole situation still further

I agree, and have certainly handled this an awful lot better than Joss's previous foray into this territory. It helps that the situation was far more 'cold,' if you like, and it helps a lot that the rapist is someone we already don't like very much (due to previous 'off' comments in a previous episode). In fact, the whole thing was a lot easier to cope with than the AR in BtVS, mainly because it was simpler and all about the 'message' and (thank God!) doesn't involve viewers in any kind of horrible moral quandary afterwards. Maybe Joss learned his lesson about putting his viewers in that situation dealing with the fallout from the AR in BtVS? I'd like to think so.

I'm not confused about Victor, no. He was the same person Ballard was talking to outside (the Russian, supposedly), but it's evident he was a doll all the time and the Dollhouse sicced him on Ballard to put him off the scent.

As you say, normal sized women are rare enough on tv, without turning out to be kickass hypnotised rapist-assassins. I may have cheered a little over that.

Hee, yes!