'Shippers: a poll

[shapinglight]

Since Scott Allie's latest rather inept attempt to make nice with the fans, I've been pondering something.



Unless he's being very disingenuous (always possible), it seems that discovering there are such people as Spike fans, let alone Spuffy 'shippers, or 'shippers of any description, has come as a surprise to him. He didn't know they were out there. I suppose there's no reason why he should know. I doubt the two main 'shipper groups took much notice of the old 'non-canon' Buffy comics, because of course what 'shippers want is validation of their 'ship and they're not going to get that from non-canon works.

Now they are getting it (or some of them are). The only way to know whether more people are displeased than pleased with what they're reading would be to look at the sales figures, and those will probably go up again anyway when the final Joss-penned arc comes out, because even those who are so far disappointed will probably be hoping, despite themselves, for a few crumbs thrown in their direction. If it was Allie's decision alone, I suspect it would happen. As it is, this being Joss, it probably won't.

What I am wondering, though, is this:

If I was to go by my LJ flist, I would say that the rump of the BtVS fandom consists of far more Spike/Spuffy fans/'shippers than it does Angel/Bangel ones. Certainly, wherever you look, the Spike-centric section of the fanbase seems to be the most active. They even have a reasonable presence on Whedonesque and Buffyforums, the latter of which seems to be distinctly unfriendly towards them. Is this just a false impression I get from my flist or is it a general impression any of the rest of you have?

Are the Spike/Spuffy fans the largest group, or are they just the loudest?

Of course, how you answer will probably depend on where you're coming from to start with, so this is hardly scientific.

[Poll #1558788]

ETA: If you choose to give your answer in comments, please resist the urge to character bash, fan bash or gloat. Thank you.

Comments

[candleanfeather.livejournal.com]

My opinion would be the vast majority who is indifferent to or unware of shipping. As for judging which group out of Spike/Spuffy fans or Angel/Bangel fans is the most important one, I'd tend to go with the first one, but it's totally biased by the fact I mostly stay on this side of fandom. The fact that Angel was the lead character of his own show is likely to give him the edge over Spike in terms of supporters.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I think the active online fandom, who write meta, fanfic, reviews, etc. there the Shippers are certainly the biggest group and Spuffy shippers is probably the biggest, most active faction there.

With the casual fans there seem to be fewer shippers. Funny thing is I never met a Bangel shipper in rl. I met quite a lot of Buffy fans from all kinds of background but they all either shipped Spuffy or nothig at all. Many never got into the Angel show and many had the impression I had before I discovered fanfiction (that he was pretty boring).

Generally I have the impression that Bangel is a lot more popular in the USA than in the rest of the world. There they might even be the biggest group and that's where "official" fandom, the part that has the most contact with the creatives (on cons and such) is seated.

[simonf.livejournal.com]

If we go outside LJ, I think that the general fans of the show would be the biggest block in the fandom, followed by the pro-Joss contingent. And then character fans/shippers after that.

[deborahc.livejournal.com]

I have absolutely no idea, since I only hang out here, in the Spuffy corner of the fandom. I can't gauge the size of other factions I'm not watching, let alone participating in.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

But don't they strongly overlap.? I mean, almost everyone in fandom is a Joss-fan, but also nearly everyone has their favorites among the characters.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Not really sure that I can answer. I'm not a Spuffy or Bangel shipper (as I'm sure you are aware), but Spangel. As a Spike fan, I tend to stick to my own little part of fandom, so not really aware of what is happening outside my flist, unless I get a link. Even then that tends to be Spike-centric.

I feel I'm more a live and let live. I'm not that strong a shipper, and it sometimes annoys me. I would quite happy to write Gen, and often do in my drabbles.

To be honest, I have ONE, yes One Bangel shipper and writer on my flist. I do have others who love Angel and DB, but they tend to be Spangel shippers.

*coming from my slashy heart*

[willowgreen.livejournal.com]

Exactly what I was going to say. Thank you.

And I just want to add that that bit from Allie was one of the most obnoxious, condescending non-apology apologies I've ever read. Unlike many on my flist, I was only mildly outraged by issue #34--and the fact that it had Buffy hooking up with Angel had nothing to do with my outrage--but now I'm starting to really dislike that dude.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Not in some peoples worlds it seems.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Funnily enough I have met a 'casual' Bangel shipper in real life. They would be what Simonf would call 'a mainstream Joss fan' and they saw Buffy/Angel as the 'official ship' and took everything they saw at face value after that.

Depressing really.

[rahirah]

If we just went by LJ, I would say S/B fans are a pretty large group, if not the largest. But LJ is by its nature a biased medium, since you only see the things you want to see. So I'm guessing that the casual fans are actually the largest group.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

If we're just talking about shipping groups here, I'd guess that there's more Bangel shippers out there, as it's the 'official' power couple, so to speak. Stamped. it seems, with Joss's approval. I also believe that because Angel had his own series, more 'casual' fans when asked which pairing they were aware of/liked, would say Buffy/Angel because of that.

Although I do also think that in Europe the Spuffy ship seems a bit more prevalent. I suspect it's because maybe there's something in that pairing as they saw it unfold on their screens that appeals to the European sentiments.

[rahirah]

I have several Bangel shippers on my flist, and I've lurked at a Bangel board from time to time - but to be honest, that's what's given me the impression that on LJ, they're a relatively small group. Most of the ones on my flist are no longer active in Buffyverse fandom, and the few who are often complain about the dearth of new Bangel fic/writers. The big Bangel ficathon rarely has as many participants as the big Spuffy one (and the big Spuffy one runs twice as often as the big Bangel one.)

However,, while active Bangel fandom seems pretty moribund, there do seem to be a lot of 'retired' Bangel shippers on LJ, who may not participate in fandom any longer, but who come out of the woodwork to comment when something favorable to their ship happens.

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

Every person I've ever discussed Buffy with in real life is a Spike fan or Spuffy shipper. Every. Last. One.

But, admittedly, that's not a lot of people.

A friend of mine just watched the show for the first time. She was initially very pro Angel/Buffy, up until Spike was introduced. Then she was "Angel who?"
Heee!

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

I guess I wouldn't know, as I actively, in most cases, avoid Bangel shippers to be honest. I strongly dislike the ship.

The Angel fans on my flist are, mostly, staying quiet about the whole affair, so I find it quite hard to gauge exactly what is happening out side my flist. The Spangel side seems to not be taking too much of an interest, which suits me down to the ground. I've already taken a break from LJ twice because of these shipper wars. I want to continue to like Angel, but find that, if I read too many comments from people from the Angel vs Spike part of fandom that I end up disliking him for a while.

[whichclothes.livejournal.com]

I'm not much of s shipper myself--I'm pretty happy to see Spike with anyone, especially if that someone is male. *g* But I see a lot of Spuffy fics with a still-robust audience, and very little Bangel. But then maybe I'm not looking in the right places, since I mostly haunt the Spikish sections of LJ.

When the series was originally on, I liked Angel but wasn't thrilled about Angel/Buffy as a couple. Then Spike came along and, like with hello_spikey's friend, he was my immediate fave character. But I wasn't especilly thrilled with the whole Spike/Buffy thing, either (actually, I have a whole long, boring story about that).

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

I'm going to agree with simonf's comments on this one.

At times, it seems like Spike/Spuffy is the largest fan group but travel much around livejournal (or elsewhere) and you realize that it only just seems that way. There's a very large Spike/Angel faction that probably rivals (if not surpasses) both B/A & B/S. Also a large Spike/Xander fanbase.

[simonf.livejournal.com]

"But don't they strongly overlap.? "

Well they do and they don't but for me I think you can make a distintive qualification.

? I mean, almost everyone in fandom is a Joss-fan

There are three very divisive figures in the fandom and Joss is one of them.* There a lot of fans in the Buffy community who aren't Joss fans and some will even go as far as to actively dislike him. And this isn't restricted to any particular ship or character fan group.

*The other two being Spike and Sarah Michelle Gellar. For what ever reason, they get the most wank in the fandom.

[makd.livejournal.com]

Hah! NOT SUBJECTIVELY - based on the research I did in 2004, when the fandom was at its numerical fattest, and reported on in my book on the Internet fandom.

Send him to me; I'll tell him everything he needs to know about ALL the 'ships and the 'shippers.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

I remember back when TVGuide did their polling crap, S/B used to win. Not that that is exactly a scientific indicator or anything, but I still went with it because in conjunction with the sheer number of Spike/Spuffy stuff you still see around, it's got to be a pretty big group. I don't see many active B/A people, it's just some are very, very loud and know the right people.

[next_to_normal]

THIS. I don't know if he was being disingenuous or not, but he sure as hell was condescending about it. "Now, sit down, kids, and let me explain what shippers are, for all you people out there who are NOT crazy." Fuck you, Scott Allie.

And seriously? Sure, it pushed the limits, but with no nipples, no genitals, I was surprised by the accusations of porn. SERIOUSLY? I think it was beer_good_foamy who said it, but no nipples or genitals doesn't mean it's not porn. It just makes it bad porn.

[ubi4soft.livejournal.com]

I understand wanking about a fictional character, I don't understand wanking about Joss or SMG

[next_to_normal]

I'm absolutely certain my opinion is biased, since I rarely venture out of the Spike/Spuffy corner of fandom, so I'll defer to those who have a broader view and say that the people who aren't shippers at all probably outnumber any single shipper fangroup (though all the shippers put together probably outnumber nonshippers).

I do think that Spuffy is much more popular nowadays than Bangel, and is probably the largest character or pairing fangroup.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

"The other two being Spike and Sarah Michelle Gellar. For what ever reason, they get the most wank in the fandom.

Really? In what way?

[demoniodehiel.livejournal.com]

I think a bit like hello_spikey I only know Spuffy and Spangel fans. My forums, webs and blogs are spikecentrics (and spuffys and spangels shippers) And this is GREAT for me.

In the poll, honestly, I miss the spangel option, the second one in importance in my opinion, after the spuffy, and I take many-many-many-many years in the fandom.

Thanks

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Hm, I guess I'm already in an overlap group because I'm decidedly a Joss fan and a Spike fan.

I never witnessed any SMG wank, but then I'm glad for every wank I miss.

What I've observed is a widespread phenomenon of conveniently part time closeted shippers. The types, who pretend not to ship anything themselves because they think, they sound more rational and convincing that way when they bash another shipper group, but the moment you find them on their home turf, you find they ship just as ardently as the people they attack.