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shapinglightHad visitors this weekend and way, way behind with everything on LJ. But before I try and catch up I wanted to post this, as I've just watched the ep.
Spoilers behind cut
Will say first of all that I didn't believe for a moment that the two bodies Theon showed Maester Luwin and the Winterfell people at the end of the ep were Bran and Rickon. In fact, I'm not sure anyone watching would have believed it, given that the two are Starks (and therefore Important), and that the episode telegraphed earlier on that there were two boys of a similar age available to get horribly murdered in their place. Whether I or the rest of the audience believe it is not important, of course, only that Maester Luwin and co might, and there's no reason why they wouldn't. It just seems a little odd to leave it as a cliffhanger when it's not one for anyone outside the story.
Or am I giving the audience too much credit?
Speaking of Theon, I'm rapidly losing patience with him. Don't feel sorry for him any more at all. In fact, if it weren't that I know it'll be really horrible when he does arrive, I'd say hurry up, Bastard of Bolton, and take Winterfell back. And speaking of Boltons, Bolton Snr is becoming more and more unnerving. The way he just hangs about staring meaningfully at Robb or whoever happens to be handy (Lady Talisa in this ep) and doesn't say anything makes me feel very uncomfortable. I wonder if I would feel that way if I didn't know anything about him?
Some great scenes in this ep, though apart from the odd reference here or there (Tywin telling Arya this is the war that will define him, Tyrion telling Cersei that Stannis Baratheon's ships are on their way, Robb riding off to accept some castle or other's surrender) it's not at all clear what's going on with the wider war. I suppose we have to assume that the Lannister/Stark confrontation is a bit of a stalemate, no one yet knows about the Iron Islanders, and the brown stuff won't really hit the fan until Stannis does arrive. Meanwhile, the poor peasants get hammered and massacred (see the first scene in Harrenhal). Business as usual, in fact.
Not that the interchanges in the episode didn't advance the plot. They did, at the same time as deepening the characters. Some lovely scenes for Arya and Tywin (well, I don't know if 'lovely' is quite the right word, but they get on really well. I think he should adopt her), Sansa and Cersei and Cersei and Tyrion - about the only nice scene those two have had, in fact, and nice to see that they're on the same page about more than just loving Jaime. Cersei knows Joffrey is a wrong 'un, even if she wouldn't admit it to anyone outside the family. I'm pleased about that, without being quite sure why. I suppose it's because I would rather understand Cersei than not, and despite what she said to Sansa about only loving your children, no one else, I'm glad to see there are limits, even for her.
Or maybe not. Maybe, next ep, she'll have someone executed for not letting Joffrey join the Boltons' flaying!yay! school, or start slapping poor Sansa around again. I don't know.
Poor, poor Sansa! I'm glad she has Shae at least.
Jaime Lannister got quite a bit of screen time in the ep - which is good, because he's been missing for a while, and Nicolaj Coster-Waldau is too good to waste. Have to say, though, the scene in the cage with the hapless Lannister cousin went on a little too long. I'd guessed what was going to happen the minute the poor bloke said that squiring for Jaime had been the best day of his life. Not that it wasn't a shock when Jaime turned on him. Made me jump.
Michelle Fairley as Catelyn was once again brilliant in this ep, and once again (seemingly) saw through Jaime's attempts to goad her into killing him (or did she? What is she going to do with Brienne's sword?).
Then there are our two spoilt brats - well, that's a bit harsh, but both Dany and Jon were a little brattish in the previous episode, and there are elements of brattishness in their behaviour in this ep too. Jon, I just feel like saying, "Don't be silly," to, except that if he gives in to Ygritte (who I really like) it sort of feels like a betrayal of Sam, his better half, so I don't want him to.
As for Dany, her treatment of her host (Xaon, is it? I keep missing it) and of Jorah is understandable in the circumstances. She's proved right not to trust Xaon (Xaos?) anyway, though I think he'll regret allying with that creepy wizard bloke, and with Jorah I realise she's prickly because she discovered he's loyal to her because he loves her, and this makes her uncomfortable (because she doesn't feel the same way. Sob!) and consequently makes her feel she has to distance herself from him. For what it's worth, though, I believe Jorah absolutely when he told the masked woman he would never betray Dany again (I assume the first betrayal was him telling Lord Varys about her marriage to Drogo and her pregnancy), but the way these things go, it wouldn't surprise me if he managed to do it by accident. Double sob!
We'll see. A terrific episode, though rather episodic, like the last one. I hope the final three will gather these disparate strands and knit them together (while understanding that the story isn't over, and the Dany stuff - and probably the Jon stuff too - isn't going to fit with the 'main' Westeros plot for a while yet).
Trivial stuff:
I really had to suspend my disbelief about Jon and Ygritte - especially Jon, since he doesn't even have a hat - not freezing to death lying on the snowy ground like that over night.
My reaction to that final scene of the children's burned corpses was actually relief (sorry!). I'd thought Theon's men were going to execute Maester Luwin.
I hope Brienne gets to beat the crap out of Jaime Lannister (in a knightly way) for that 'beast' crack.
Poor Irri! Glad to see Dany mourning her and admitting that following her has done her khalasar no good. I hope Doreah's all right.
As I said before, poor, poor Sansa!
I see Ghost continues to be the most useless direwolf ever. 'Course, I'll take it back if ep 8 begins with him leaping down from the nearest glacier to save Jon.
No Bronn for the second week running. Obviously, he was on Joffrey slapping duty again.
Spoilers behind cut
Will say first of all that I didn't believe for a moment that the two bodies Theon showed Maester Luwin and the Winterfell people at the end of the ep were Bran and Rickon. In fact, I'm not sure anyone watching would have believed it, given that the two are Starks (and therefore Important), and that the episode telegraphed earlier on that there were two boys of a similar age available to get horribly murdered in their place. Whether I or the rest of the audience believe it is not important, of course, only that Maester Luwin and co might, and there's no reason why they wouldn't. It just seems a little odd to leave it as a cliffhanger when it's not one for anyone outside the story.
Or am I giving the audience too much credit?
Speaking of Theon, I'm rapidly losing patience with him. Don't feel sorry for him any more at all. In fact, if it weren't that I know it'll be really horrible when he does arrive, I'd say hurry up, Bastard of Bolton, and take Winterfell back. And speaking of Boltons, Bolton Snr is becoming more and more unnerving. The way he just hangs about staring meaningfully at Robb or whoever happens to be handy (Lady Talisa in this ep) and doesn't say anything makes me feel very uncomfortable. I wonder if I would feel that way if I didn't know anything about him?
Some great scenes in this ep, though apart from the odd reference here or there (Tywin telling Arya this is the war that will define him, Tyrion telling Cersei that Stannis Baratheon's ships are on their way, Robb riding off to accept some castle or other's surrender) it's not at all clear what's going on with the wider war. I suppose we have to assume that the Lannister/Stark confrontation is a bit of a stalemate, no one yet knows about the Iron Islanders, and the brown stuff won't really hit the fan until Stannis does arrive. Meanwhile, the poor peasants get hammered and massacred (see the first scene in Harrenhal). Business as usual, in fact.
Not that the interchanges in the episode didn't advance the plot. They did, at the same time as deepening the characters. Some lovely scenes for Arya and Tywin (well, I don't know if 'lovely' is quite the right word, but they get on really well. I think he should adopt her), Sansa and Cersei and Cersei and Tyrion - about the only nice scene those two have had, in fact, and nice to see that they're on the same page about more than just loving Jaime. Cersei knows Joffrey is a wrong 'un, even if she wouldn't admit it to anyone outside the family. I'm pleased about that, without being quite sure why. I suppose it's because I would rather understand Cersei than not, and despite what she said to Sansa about only loving your children, no one else, I'm glad to see there are limits, even for her.
Or maybe not. Maybe, next ep, she'll have someone executed for not letting Joffrey join the Boltons' flaying!yay! school, or start slapping poor Sansa around again. I don't know.
Poor, poor Sansa! I'm glad she has Shae at least.
Jaime Lannister got quite a bit of screen time in the ep - which is good, because he's been missing for a while, and Nicolaj Coster-Waldau is too good to waste. Have to say, though, the scene in the cage with the hapless Lannister cousin went on a little too long. I'd guessed what was going to happen the minute the poor bloke said that squiring for Jaime had been the best day of his life. Not that it wasn't a shock when Jaime turned on him. Made me jump.
Michelle Fairley as Catelyn was once again brilliant in this ep, and once again (seemingly) saw through Jaime's attempts to goad her into killing him (or did she? What is she going to do with Brienne's sword?).
Then there are our two spoilt brats - well, that's a bit harsh, but both Dany and Jon were a little brattish in the previous episode, and there are elements of brattishness in their behaviour in this ep too. Jon, I just feel like saying, "Don't be silly," to, except that if he gives in to Ygritte (who I really like) it sort of feels like a betrayal of Sam, his better half, so I don't want him to.
As for Dany, her treatment of her host (Xaon, is it? I keep missing it) and of Jorah is understandable in the circumstances. She's proved right not to trust Xaon (Xaos?) anyway, though I think he'll regret allying with that creepy wizard bloke, and with Jorah I realise she's prickly because she discovered he's loyal to her because he loves her, and this makes her uncomfortable (because she doesn't feel the same way. Sob!) and consequently makes her feel she has to distance herself from him. For what it's worth, though, I believe Jorah absolutely when he told the masked woman he would never betray Dany again (I assume the first betrayal was him telling Lord Varys about her marriage to Drogo and her pregnancy), but the way these things go, it wouldn't surprise me if he managed to do it by accident. Double sob!
We'll see. A terrific episode, though rather episodic, like the last one. I hope the final three will gather these disparate strands and knit them together (while understanding that the story isn't over, and the Dany stuff - and probably the Jon stuff too - isn't going to fit with the 'main' Westeros plot for a while yet).
Trivial stuff:
I really had to suspend my disbelief about Jon and Ygritte - especially Jon, since he doesn't even have a hat - not freezing to death lying on the snowy ground like that over night.
My reaction to that final scene of the children's burned corpses was actually relief (sorry!). I'd thought Theon's men were going to execute Maester Luwin.
I hope Brienne gets to beat the crap out of Jaime Lannister (in a knightly way) for that 'beast' crack.
Poor Irri! Glad to see Dany mourning her and admitting that following her has done her khalasar no good. I hope Doreah's all right.
As I said before, poor, poor Sansa!
I see Ghost continues to be the most useless direwolf ever. 'Course, I'll take it back if ep 8 begins with him leaping down from the nearest glacier to save Jon.
No Bronn for the second week running. Obviously, he was on Joffrey slapping duty again.
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no subject
Date: 2012-05-14 03:45 pm (UTC)Could it be the Bolton bastard arrived already and that was his first act - to horribly murder the decoys while covering Stark children escape, and taking Stark children into custody/as hostages at the same time?
Could it be this Bolton's guy strategy - commiting undercover atrocities and pinning them on Theon's men, to kill two birds with one stone? Or am I giving too much credit to Boltons...
It just really seemed to me that those children wasn't Theon's doing.
Otherwise - terrific episode, especially Sansa part. The intercutting of a horror of gang rape, blood and marriage to Jeoffrey was brilliantly done, while horrifying for her.
And then we got another talk with Cersei showing her human face, both to Sansa and to Tyrion.
The thing with Cersei - I believe her both when she's acting as a human and as a monster, sometimes at the same time. It makes her so interesting and that hasn't happened in a while.
Like when she was taking to Catelyn about death of her baby and wishing Bran recovery, while plotting his death at the same time - I believe she meant both, she was really sorry for another mother losing her child, while solving her own problem to protect her own children.
Or the talk with Ned when she admitted her love affair with Jaimie, and now a talk with Sansa and Tyrion - she was sinsere with them but could have been plotting horrible things for both.
She just thinks it's a part of the whole unjustice that is life, and she's just have to play her part.
She's similar to Jaimie here, who feels disgusted by the roles he has to play, but plays them all the same, because life is an ugly thing.
He wanted to be killed and killed two men to achieve that - including his adoring cousin. Yes, I thought that cousin was going to die but was shocked it was Jaimie who did that.
Now Catelyn getting that sword and all those talks of amputations before that - I hope she's not going to hack some parts of him off. What if it gets known in Lannister camp - I shudder to think how they might retaliate with Sansa. :(
And Xaro has shown his cards at last - he took the city and Dany with dragons too, not sure how she can escape now... I was sad to see spice merchant go.
What is Doreah doing? I'm afraid she might have been on a betrayal. And what about that masked woman? I had a crazy thought it might be Doreah.
As for Dany: I read Book 2 till the point explaining who Dorn people are, the ones getting Myrcella. The wife of Raegar Targarean, killed with her children by Robert's and Lannister men, was from Dorn's house. So they hold a grudge against both Baratheons and Lannisters (maybe less against the latter now, with Myrcella), but they might be Dany's natural allies. They would want a Targarean back on a throne. We'll see.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-14 07:38 pm (UTC)I saw the shock, too, but I think it's more that Theon is new to being a plain-dealing villain and didn't realize how gruesome his orders would be until he saw them carried out.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-14 07:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-14 09:10 pm (UTC)So if that was done on his orders, it meant he passed some strange children corpses, burned beyond recognition on purpose, for Stark children. Meaning he won't be pursuing them further? That's an interesting angle.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-15 08:31 am (UTC)I don't think he's necessarily given up the search. He's just not conducting it in person any more.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-15 01:52 pm (UTC)Wouldn't it humiliate him further, in everyone's eyes, if they discovered he didn't actually find the children?
I.e. if it was done on his orders, and it's a coverup, it had to be a cover for giving up on Starks pursuit.
Now for what reason - either he really didn't want to be cruel to Stark boys but feared he had to be, because of Ironborn peer pressure? Or maybe because he thought he couldn't catch them anymore, but wanted to conceal it from the Ironborn, not to look a failure to them?
no subject
Date: 2012-05-15 02:53 pm (UTC)Wouldn't it humiliate him further, in everyone's eyes, if they discovered he didn't actually find the children?
Well, I suppose the people of Winterfell wouldn't actually know whether he was still searching for the children or not, would they?
Whatever it is, if he has given up the search, I'm sure it's not because he wanted to spare the Stark boys.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-15 05:13 pm (UTC)Unless he plans to kill this entire family next, to bury the ends...
No, I'm still at a loss at what really happened there. Guess the next episode will explain it.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-16 08:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-15 08:28 am (UTC)I think I'm inclined to agree with the others -that the look on his face is down to not realising quite how awful the results of his orders would be. I also don't think he's necessarily given up trying to catch Bran and Rickon, but maybe terrifying the people of Winterfell into submission was more important. He probably left the men with the dogs to continue tracking the children.
The intercutting of a horror of gang rape, blood and marriage to Jeoffrey was brilliantly done, while horrifying for her.
I agree. That was very well done. She knows Joffrey well enough to make the connection, poor girl.
And very good analysis of Cersei.
And what about that masked woman? I had a crazy thought it might be Doreah.
Now you've said that, you've got me wondering too. Hmm.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-15 12:03 pm (UTC)And another name drop. Mask lady said the sailor was going past the Doom of Valeria. Valeria (who knows if I spelled that correctly) is sort of their version of Ancient Rome or Atlantis, an empire that in ancient times went the way of Pompeii, Santorini Minoans, or Atlantis. Think volcanoes.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-15 12:16 pm (UTC)I can't remember what was said about her origins when she first turned up.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-15 01:57 pm (UTC)But maybe she has a hidden agenda?
It seems there are many women from the Free Cities posing as someone else with a mystery behind them - like Shae or that nurse with Robb.
Maybe Doreah is similar to them, and fooled Viserys into this appointment? She talked about dragons an awful lot in Season 1. Hmm.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-15 02:54 pm (UTC)She certainly did. I wonder.