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shapinglightThis sort of post (ie. where people talked about their own fics) were quite common back in the day, now not so much. But whatever. I was bored at work yesterday and this was the result. Also, I'm procrastinating about starting the next story in my Spike/Giles season 7 series.
Recently, someone was kind enough to read my 2006 fic (boy, that long ago!) Vampire Winter, and leave feedback. When answering their comment, I got sucked into re-reading the story myself.
I've been meaning to re-read it for a while, actually, because I think I should try to put some of my better fics up on Ao3, and at the time people seemed to like Vampire Winter so it's a possible candidate.
I held off the re-read, though, because I was sure I would find the story highly embarrassing now -badly written, full of amateurish mistakes, telling rather than showing, etc, etc. My writing style has changed a little since then, I think (hopefully got better, but who knows? I am still an amateur, after all). In actual fact, the re-read wasn't too painful. The word 'however' was overused (as it is in a lot of my early fics), but not to the point where it was driving me crazy.
The character voices were all right too, in particular Angel and Spike. It was my first ever attempt to write from Buffy's POV, and - yes, I can see my Buffy's not show Buffy. On the other hand, I don't think she's an impossible extrapolation of show Buffy.
What did strike me very forcibly, though, is that I wrote a Bangel fic. At the time, I didn't intend to. I meant to write a Spuffel fic (to use the convenient shorthand), without the threesome sex (which I could never imagine happening). In other words, Buffy was meant to be in love with both vampires. But I can see I failed to produce that. Buffy in the story loves both vampires, but is only in love with Angel. In the story, that doesn't actually matter too much because Spike and Angel are also in love with each other, though neither of them would ever admit it.
Where was I going with this? Oh yes.
A lot of time - and a lot of very bad comics - have passed since then. The very bad comics have led me to think that my description of Buffy's feelings for Spike in Vampire Winter were over generous, and my description of Spike's and Angel's feelings for each other downright risible.
Fine, it's fanfic. It doesn't have to pay any attention to the stupid comics and can, if it wants, stick with the long-established Spangel fic fanon tropes, which mostly involve seeing a familial connection of some variety or other between Angel and Spike, which leads at some point to some serious shagging. When AtS ended, for me at least, those tropes still worked pretty well. Okay, I knew that wasn't quite what I was seeing on screen, but again, it wasn't an impossible extrapolation.
Now, though, it kind of is? Leaving aside the IDW Angel comics, which are closer in feel to AtS, I think (please note I'm not saying they're better comics, just that - perhaps because Joss wasn't really involved with them - they stuck closely to established models), it's clear from what little interaction Spike and Angel have had up to now in the Buffy comics, and despite that Joss-penned Always Darkest web comic - which now I think of it, takes a similar premise to Vampire Winter (Angel and Spike are more interested in each other than they are in Buffy) and turns it into a nightmare - Joss sees them as mainly love-rivals for Buffy and the only real connection between them is that they're both vampires with souls.
They aren't family at all.
So anyway, to get back to Vampire Winter, I found the bits of it I didn't like weren't that it was badly written (it was fine, really), or that it was a Bangel fic (I haven't read much Bangel fic, but I think I wrote the 'ship okay), but more that it expects you to believe something about Spike and Angel that I just don't believe any more myself.
A pity.
Could explain, though, how when I wrote something for![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
rekindlespangel recently, I had to set it one thousand years in the future.
Thoughts? And not specifically about Vampire Winter or the rotten old comics, and how they can spoil perfectly good fanfic tropes for some people (ie. me), but more along the lines of, are there any fanfic tropes you used to love, but which now tend to make you cringe when you come across them in other people's work? And if so, why the change?
Recently, someone was kind enough to read my 2006 fic (boy, that long ago!) Vampire Winter, and leave feedback. When answering their comment, I got sucked into re-reading the story myself.
I've been meaning to re-read it for a while, actually, because I think I should try to put some of my better fics up on Ao3, and at the time people seemed to like Vampire Winter so it's a possible candidate.
I held off the re-read, though, because I was sure I would find the story highly embarrassing now -badly written, full of amateurish mistakes, telling rather than showing, etc, etc. My writing style has changed a little since then, I think (hopefully got better, but who knows? I am still an amateur, after all). In actual fact, the re-read wasn't too painful. The word 'however' was overused (as it is in a lot of my early fics), but not to the point where it was driving me crazy.
The character voices were all right too, in particular Angel and Spike. It was my first ever attempt to write from Buffy's POV, and - yes, I can see my Buffy's not show Buffy. On the other hand, I don't think she's an impossible extrapolation of show Buffy.
What did strike me very forcibly, though, is that I wrote a Bangel fic. At the time, I didn't intend to. I meant to write a Spuffel fic (to use the convenient shorthand), without the threesome sex (which I could never imagine happening). In other words, Buffy was meant to be in love with both vampires. But I can see I failed to produce that. Buffy in the story loves both vampires, but is only in love with Angel. In the story, that doesn't actually matter too much because Spike and Angel are also in love with each other, though neither of them would ever admit it.
Where was I going with this? Oh yes.
A lot of time - and a lot of very bad comics - have passed since then. The very bad comics have led me to think that my description of Buffy's feelings for Spike in Vampire Winter were over generous, and my description of Spike's and Angel's feelings for each other downright risible.
Fine, it's fanfic. It doesn't have to pay any attention to the stupid comics and can, if it wants, stick with the long-established Spangel fic fanon tropes, which mostly involve seeing a familial connection of some variety or other between Angel and Spike, which leads at some point to some serious shagging. When AtS ended, for me at least, those tropes still worked pretty well. Okay, I knew that wasn't quite what I was seeing on screen, but again, it wasn't an impossible extrapolation.
Now, though, it kind of is? Leaving aside the IDW Angel comics, which are closer in feel to AtS, I think (please note I'm not saying they're better comics, just that - perhaps because Joss wasn't really involved with them - they stuck closely to established models), it's clear from what little interaction Spike and Angel have had up to now in the Buffy comics, and despite that Joss-penned Always Darkest web comic - which now I think of it, takes a similar premise to Vampire Winter (Angel and Spike are more interested in each other than they are in Buffy) and turns it into a nightmare - Joss sees them as mainly love-rivals for Buffy and the only real connection between them is that they're both vampires with souls.
They aren't family at all.
So anyway, to get back to Vampire Winter, I found the bits of it I didn't like weren't that it was badly written (it was fine, really), or that it was a Bangel fic (I haven't read much Bangel fic, but I think I wrote the 'ship okay), but more that it expects you to believe something about Spike and Angel that I just don't believe any more myself.
A pity.
Could explain, though, how when I wrote something for
rekindlespangel recently, I had to set it one thousand years in the future.Thoughts? And not specifically about Vampire Winter or the rotten old comics, and how they can spoil perfectly good fanfic tropes for some people (ie. me), but more along the lines of, are there any fanfic tropes you used to love, but which now tend to make you cringe when you come across them in other people's work? And if so, why the change?
no subject
Date: 2013-02-09 05:14 pm (UTC)Whereas I could only write him as a huge dick (or dickhead). But then you're a much better person than me. ;)
Whatever Joss' (or, by this point, Scott Allie's) opinion of the characters is now, almost 10 years after the series ended, shouldn't have any bearing on what happened in the series and how one reads it. Though it is hard to ignore the elephant in the room.
Yes, it's tricky - though of course always worth remembering that at this point, it is more Allie's opinion, (though, unlike us, his opinions are influenced by direct contact with Joss. Yeah, that's a big sticking point. I find myself thinking, is this really what Joss thought about so-and-so all the time? But it's so lame!)
To get back to my point, I find it easier to ignore the comics in terms of situations/events. Less easy to ignore when it comes to the relationships (not just romantic ones).
I don't think there's any tropes that I've completely abandoned, but I'm more aware that they are tropes by now, for better or worse.
I suppose I should say the same, since I still do occasionally write Spangel. But it's different to the way I used to write it. I struggle to make it believable even to myself.
If people have already read that particular trope 5,000 times already, you need to bring something slightly fresh to the table if you're going to ask them to take it seriously.
Yes, very well put.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-09 05:28 pm (UTC)In fairness, I was already writing him like that a lot of the time. :) There's a reason I have a tag called "messwithangel". But there's a difference between "A guy who's a bit of a dick and takes himself too seriously, but honestly tries to do good" and "A moron who, at the slightest provocation, will commit mass murder in order to drive someone he loves to suicidal desperation and end the world". And it's hard to argue that the latter is out of character and then continue to write the former.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-09 05:34 pm (UTC)This is absolutely rolling on the floor hysterically funny. Or it would be if it weren't true.
Poor old Angel. What a hatchet job.
It's even worse because it's an inept, unintentional hatchet job.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-10 11:05 am (UTC)* I actually did outline a fic in which he spent much of Season 8 killing innocents and psychologically torturing Buffy in order to end the world, while constantly thinking of how Angelus would do it, how much Angelus would enjoy this, how Angelus would consider this a masterpiece, and congratulating himself on feeling bad about doing the exact same things. Meanwhile, of course, his victims suffered just as much anyway. I never wrote it because, what's the use?
no subject
Date: 2013-02-10 12:49 pm (UTC)True, and the thing that makes it pretty much impossible to derive much enjoyment from the Angel & Faith title (though why Faith's name is in the title is a mystery to me, as she's only there to facilitate Angel's story), which is a shame because it's a decent enough comic book. Not great, but okay. But that they won't accept they're whitewashing Angel and the accusation that anyone who thinks so is just a bitter 'shipper is pretty off-putting.
I never wrote it because, what's the use?
Well, I suppose it might be cathartic for you, but as above, people would only accuse you of having written it because you're a bitter 'shipper (which is risible, but people would have said it anyway).
no subject
Date: 2013-02-10 04:13 pm (UTC)That's what gets me. I read it and read the things they say and just wonder how they cannot be getting what the problem is. Even now a big part of me believes they have to be trolling people.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-10 06:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-10 07:48 pm (UTC)Yup. Or they blame it on bigotry of some kind.
It's almost funny how much they contradict himself.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 09:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 10:18 pm (UTC)I think this was always true, but it's a lot truer now.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-10 10:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-11 01:47 am (UTC)Also one or both of them has an inability to remember things from interview to interview and panel to panel. It's the corporate equivalent of Leonard from Memento.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-11 04:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-09 11:30 pm (UTC)