shapinglight | Hadley Freeman weighs in on the Joss Whedon has problems with the word 'feminist' controversy.

You're viewing

shapinglight's journal
Create a Dreamwidth Account Learn More

Reload page in style: site light

Hadley's well worth a read, no matter what the subject (very funny, for one thing). Her thoughts on
the 're-branding' of feminism.

Have to say, I do wonder if Joss ran his recent speech by his wife before delivering it.

Crossposts: http://shapinglight.livejournal.com/1283876.html

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

shapinglight

I got the impression she was complaining that lots of celebrities were saying they weren't feminists and others had said feminism needed a make-over.

She mentioned four celebrities (if Geri Haliwell still counts as one, or if the editor of Elle does). I don't think that's the same as 'lots.' Also, Hadley is pretty tongue in cheek about celebrities in general. Her stating some quote of theirs with regard to feminism in a jocular manner doesn't mean that she thinks those opinions have any weight.

The Joss clip is only controversial because he's regarded as a female and feminist-friendly writer, who has even so fallen into the trap of telling women what to do. That's all.

From:

ex_peasant441

Then I guess I don't understand what point she was actually making. If she thinks most women are happy with feminism as it stands, and if she thinks the opinions of those she quotes don't count then... what?

who has even so fallen into the trap of telling women what to do

Yeah, well that is one of my main beefs with the whole ism industry - this nonsensical belief that only the people who suffer prejudice are allowed to offer suggestions for how to solve the problems. Makes me mad every time I see it expressed. In many cases the reverse is actually true - if you want to join a club, ask a member of the club about the membership criteria, not someone who's been blackballed. Although I still think Joss's actual point was pretty trivial, but that is a function of it being a trivial point, not of him being a man.

From:

shapinglight

You did get the part about this being a funny piece, didn't you?

this nonsensical belief that only the people who suffer prejudice are allowed to offer suggestions for how to solve the problems.

That's not what the problem is. And the problem isn't about joining some 'club.' You make it sound as if women all want to join some men's 'club', which is naturally better than their own 'club' and everything will be fine if they just let some man tell them how to do it.

To me, that's nonsensical.

From:

ex_peasant441

You did get the part about this being a funny piece, didn't you?

Actually I didn't. Whatever the humour is I suspect it relies on in-jokes and a culture I am not part of.

That's not what the problem is.

Which I suspect gets to the heart of why someone like me will never use the word feminist. It is a fundamental methodological difference in how we view the world and hence how we think problems should be solved, and a very profound one.

NB: A flock of several thousand wood pigeons just flew over (heading south) - an amazing sight.

From:

shapinglight

Which I suspect gets to the heart of why someone like me will never use the word feminist. It is a fundamental methodological difference in how we view the world and hence how we think problems should be solved, and a very profound one.

Yep. You'll just have to accept that I am right and you are wrong. ;)

It's a horrible day here today. The only birds out in it are gulls.