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shapinglightDid manage to watch this today, but haven't been able to find a moment to write a review till now, when I'm about to go to bed. Oh well.
Spoilers behind cut.
This episode had an oddly wistful quality in parts. There were various scenes where I found myself thinking, uh-oh, this is the last time these two are going to meet.
That was especially the case in the Theon/Yara scene, where Yara turning nice can only mean one thing, IMO - ie. that when this Bastard of Bolton character shows up something very nasty indeed will happen to Theon. I just hope they don't choose to make it too graphic.
The other wistful scene was the Dany/Jorah one, which, as you can imagine, I loved to bits, while at the same time thinking, it's all doomed to badness, isn't it? And I do hope the fact that Lord Varys is still getting updates on Dany's situation doesn't mean that Jorah is still spying on her. :(
Anyway, I hope they have a couple more scenes together before the end of the season, because I have nasty feeling that's it (or at least, that's it, until the books put them together again, if they ever do).
Elsewhere, Jon is still having a less than jolly time (and Sam is missing him terribly). Jaime Lannister isn't enjoying himself that much either, but at least it's not quite so chilly where he is.
The quarrel between Cat and Robb was upsetting. They were so close at the end of season 1. That said, I would much rather have more scenes between Robb and Cat than scenes between Robb and this Talisa woman. Have vaguely gathered that the character's generally not that well liked, and I can't say I like her either. Not that it bothers me in the slightest if Robb cries off his needs-must engagement with one of the charmless Frey clan, but as I've said in a previous review, I'm really not interested in his love life.
I'd far rather see him interact with his siblings, actually, especially because I'm beginning to wonder if the Stark children will ever meet each other again. I just hope that Bran and Rickon stay together, and that Maester Luwin and Osha carry on looking after them (though noticed the utterly useless direwolves have gone missing again - and still no sign of Ghost either).
Other scenes were more interesting - every scene featuring Arya, for instance (I shall miss her exchanges with Tywin), and the Tyrion/Bronn, Tyrion/Cersei, Tyrion/Varys scenes. I suppose Varys must have fed Cersei false information on purpose, about Ros being Tyrion's lover. Part of his power game - show Tyrion he can reveal his secret whenever he wants to.
Good episode (except for the Robb/Talisa scene, which went on too long). Things are building nicely to a head at last. I suppose Stannis will probably arrive at Kingslanding at the end of ep 9, and ep 10 (which I vaguely remember GRRM is writing) will feature some big battle or other. I expect it's too much to hope that Joffrey will get killed, but maybe 'Uncle' Stannis will get a turn at slapping him. Can't expect Bronn to do it every week.
Trivial stuff:
Jorah's speech about how he would remember Dany in the flames longer than he'll remember his own mother's face made me go all gooey.
I wonder who would win in a fight? Jaime or Brienne?
I wish we could get through one episode - just one - without any female nudity.
Speaking of nudity, there haven't been nearly enough naked men this season. What's that all about?
Not a good review, I'm afraid, but it's been a long day and I'm tired.
Spoilers behind cut.
This episode had an oddly wistful quality in parts. There were various scenes where I found myself thinking, uh-oh, this is the last time these two are going to meet.
That was especially the case in the Theon/Yara scene, where Yara turning nice can only mean one thing, IMO - ie. that when this Bastard of Bolton character shows up something very nasty indeed will happen to Theon. I just hope they don't choose to make it too graphic.
The other wistful scene was the Dany/Jorah one, which, as you can imagine, I loved to bits, while at the same time thinking, it's all doomed to badness, isn't it? And I do hope the fact that Lord Varys is still getting updates on Dany's situation doesn't mean that Jorah is still spying on her. :(
Anyway, I hope they have a couple more scenes together before the end of the season, because I have nasty feeling that's it (or at least, that's it, until the books put them together again, if they ever do).
Elsewhere, Jon is still having a less than jolly time (and Sam is missing him terribly). Jaime Lannister isn't enjoying himself that much either, but at least it's not quite so chilly where he is.
The quarrel between Cat and Robb was upsetting. They were so close at the end of season 1. That said, I would much rather have more scenes between Robb and Cat than scenes between Robb and this Talisa woman. Have vaguely gathered that the character's generally not that well liked, and I can't say I like her either. Not that it bothers me in the slightest if Robb cries off his needs-must engagement with one of the charmless Frey clan, but as I've said in a previous review, I'm really not interested in his love life.
I'd far rather see him interact with his siblings, actually, especially because I'm beginning to wonder if the Stark children will ever meet each other again. I just hope that Bran and Rickon stay together, and that Maester Luwin and Osha carry on looking after them (though noticed the utterly useless direwolves have gone missing again - and still no sign of Ghost either).
Other scenes were more interesting - every scene featuring Arya, for instance (I shall miss her exchanges with Tywin), and the Tyrion/Bronn, Tyrion/Cersei, Tyrion/Varys scenes. I suppose Varys must have fed Cersei false information on purpose, about Ros being Tyrion's lover. Part of his power game - show Tyrion he can reveal his secret whenever he wants to.
Good episode (except for the Robb/Talisa scene, which went on too long). Things are building nicely to a head at last. I suppose Stannis will probably arrive at Kingslanding at the end of ep 9, and ep 10 (which I vaguely remember GRRM is writing) will feature some big battle or other. I expect it's too much to hope that Joffrey will get killed, but maybe 'Uncle' Stannis will get a turn at slapping him. Can't expect Bronn to do it every week.
Trivial stuff:
Jorah's speech about how he would remember Dany in the flames longer than he'll remember his own mother's face made me go all gooey.
I wonder who would win in a fight? Jaime or Brienne?
I wish we could get through one episode - just one - without any female nudity.
Speaking of nudity, there haven't been nearly enough naked men this season. What's that all about?
Not a good review, I'm afraid, but it's been a long day and I'm tired.
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no subject
Date: 2012-05-21 11:18 pm (UTC)As for Robb and the Frey girl - that's what kings do, marry people they don't necessarily love because they need the alliances. That's what Robb's mother and father did, that's what Dany did, that's what just about every noble lord in Westeros did; he had to cross that river so he agreed to the marriage. I didn't feel bad for him, especially as I'm sure he intends for Arya to keep *that* part of the deal.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-22 09:49 am (UTC)Wasn't there? It's all faded into a blur for me. Maybe I was thinking of Ygritte trying to get Jon to have sex with her?
Hmm, re: Jaime/Cat, I thought she gave her reason for releasing him to Karstark Snr last week. Not that it cut any ice with him, I suppose, which is why she let Jaime go. I am sad we won't get any more Cat/Brienne scenes, though.
As for Robb and the Frey girl - that's what kings do, marry people they don't necessarily love because they need the alliances.
Well, I don't remember him offering Talisa marriage, though I suppose we were meant to infer? As for the Frey marriage, if Robb were ever to be crowned king, he could probably make a better dynastic marriage than that anyway. Kings have been known to break off engagements if a better offer came along.
But really, I'm not bothered either way. The thing that interests me least about Robb is his love life. Quite possibly because he's not a POV character in the books, the life the show is trying to flesh out for him doesn't really work that well. I'd rather they'd concentrated on his relationships with his mother and siblings.
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Date: 2012-05-22 10:24 am (UTC)As for Robb, I didn't mean he'd offered to marry Talisa but that his whining about not wanting to marry a Frey girl irritated me. He made that promise because he needed to cross the Twins; reneging on a promise made to one's bannermen is kind of a big deal. Ned and Catelyn had an arranged marriage, after all. If he decides he'll keep Talisa as his mistress and marry the Frey girl I'm sure that's totally acceptable though. (I mean by Westeros standards.)
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Date: 2012-05-22 10:43 am (UTC)No, I know. Cat's reasoning was all inferred.
I doubt Robb's choice will feature either way. Too many other plot strands to deal with. I think that ep was probably a good example of how difficult this story is to bring to the TV screen.
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Date: 2012-05-22 02:37 pm (UTC)Alas, he's a Stark. ;)
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Date: 2012-05-22 02:41 pm (UTC)(I think the idea of this "romance" was to make me like Robb more but I actually like him less and less these days.)
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Date: 2012-05-22 02:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-21 11:31 pm (UTC)Loved the scenes between Bronn, Varys and Tyrion. Damn, Tyrion is going to have to use that arsenal of Cersei's, isn't he?
And I guess Tywin didn't figure out who Arya was after all. But how great was her scene with Jaqen? I really hope we get more of him, he's a delightful anti-Ned Stark in terms of honour and loyalty; how many professional killers would have said anything but "Uh... yeah, sure I'm going to kill myself just because you say so."
The thing with Jaime is bound to end badly.
Jon undercover? Somehow I'm having trouble believing he could fool anyone for more than, oh, 2 seconds. But I guess we'll see. And I'm curious about the whole "First men" business.
Theon continues to be a pathetically inept villain - his attempt to bribe the farmer to not tell anyone his children were dead and not realising that of course they'd killed the farmer too is just... please leave my TV now. And let's have more Yara instead. That was a really good scene.
I dunno, Stannis doesn't seem like the slapping type. Maybe his priestess could come up with some sort of slapping demon? (Also, Joffrey 17? How much time has passed since 1.01, anyway?)
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Date: 2012-05-22 12:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-22 09:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-22 02:27 pm (UTC)The show gave us a bit more sympathy for Theon than I had in the book (though, given his overall arc, I don't mind their giving us a bit more pity for him), so Yara wanting to keep him out came off far bitchier and less well-founded than it felt in the book. As she was introduced in the show, she came off as something of the bad guy. It never quite came off that way in the book. Sure she was attacking the North but it was never personal. I never saw her as a villain, just someone from a different house.
She was also... I don't know, happier? Less dour? In all the dark and woeful characters around, she wasn't full of angst and woe even when things go against her (as they do in places).
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Date: 2012-05-23 11:09 am (UTC)See, it's comments like these that make me extremely nervous about what's going to happen when the Bastard of Bolton turns up (since I assume whatever happens to Theon will have something to do with him).
She was also... I don't know, happier? Less dour?
She is pretty dour, isn't she? Mind you, with a dad like hers, I don't blame her.
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Date: 2012-05-23 02:01 pm (UTC)I honestly don't know what the show will choose to do with Theon at this point.
And Asha (who is Yara in the show) isn't dour. At least in Book II she's practically... rollicking(?) She's married in the book but is happily estranged "Oh he's off somewhere, and I don't give a flip about him anyway. I run my own life and my own ship" and basically lives life as she wants to, having affairs where she wants to, and generally enjoying the Pirate/Viking life (as the Iron Islanders came of quite... pirate-like to me in the book.) I never thought of her as 'dour' when reading, so that coming across on the show was a surprise to me.
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Date: 2012-05-24 05:44 pm (UTC)Ah, so something is supposed to happen to him by the end of this season. I wondered, because I had the impression it happened in a later book and that the show had changed more stuff.
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Date: 2012-05-24 06:13 pm (UTC)For that matter, I'm wondering what they're going to do with Arya for the rest of this season. Her ending in Book II was that she, Gendry, and Hot Pie finally escaped Harrenhal and were heading out on the open road. They've now done that. Though in the process they've skipped a Jaquen/Arya scene that's pretty pivotal, so I'm guessing that is still going to happen but is restaged. There's really no way to skip it because it's important to her long arc. I'm also wondering whether they're going to borrow a tad from her story in Book III just to set stuff up for next season.
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Date: 2012-05-25 08:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-22 09:57 am (UTC)Yes, I agree, and those never really work, for which see Spider in the Angel comics. You can always tell when a character is introduced for a specific function rather than being organic to the story.
Loved the scenes between Bronn, Varys and Tyrion. Damn, Tyrion is going to have to use that arsenal of Cersei's, isn't he?
Yep, and it's all going to be quite horrid, with people burning to death all over the place, and the Lady in Red (whose name currently escapes me) is going to tell Stannis it was all his fault for listening to Davos and leaving her behind.
And I guess Tywin didn't figure out who Arya was after after all.
No, so much for that speculation. I'm a bit disappointed, to be honest, because I enjoyed their interaction so much. However, that relationship wasn't in the books, so I suppose it was unlikely to go anywhere. I agree about the Jaquen scene. Absolutely brilliant. I wonder if it will ever be explained why he talks in that weird way.
The thing with Jaime is bound to end badly.
I fear so. Poor Brienne!
Jon undercover? Somehow I'm having trouble believing he could fool anyone for more than, oh, 2 seconds
Hee! Must say, I'm looking forward to setting eyes on Mance Rayder. Was wondering if he'd turn out to be Uncle Benjen.
please leave my TV now. And let's have more Yara instead. That was a really good scene.
I think you're going to get your wish re: Theon, but to be honest, after what book readers have hinted at, I'm rather dreading it. :(
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Date: 2012-05-22 11:12 am (UTC)TBH, this may make me sound like a horrible person, but I wouldn't mind seeing him flayed to death, Warren-style (within reason). What I'm more afraid of is that he'll be tortured and not killed and continue to cock things up because WOAH MANPAIN.
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Date: 2012-05-22 11:42 am (UTC)I don't know for a fact, but I suspect this is unlikely. Or maybe not. :is clueless:
I am pretty sure, though, that Theon should have gone home with Yara when he had the chance.
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Date: 2012-05-22 02:31 pm (UTC)Yes. But that answer will probably never come from him.
Hee! Must say, I'm looking forward to setting eyes on Mance Rayder.
When reading the book, I cast him in my head as James Purefoy. Doubt I'll get that on the show but... that doesn't mean I'll stop wishing for him to be there.
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Date: 2012-05-23 11:10 am (UTC)Guess that means he won't turn out to be Uncle Benjen, then?
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Date: 2012-05-23 02:03 pm (UTC)And I suppose Jaquen could explain what he speaks that way in the show (it might simplify things for the audience), but I doubt that he will because the answer is quite involved and will be answered through plot... eventually.
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Date: 2012-05-24 05:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-22 12:02 am (UTC)i would bet money on brienne. she's had good food and rest lately. jaime would be toast.
and that scene between Jorah and Dany had me gooey too. so moving and from the heart. i just think, though, that Dany is going to break his heart. she's so young and driven.
i can't wait to see if Tyrion uses Cersei's arsenal. what fun!
i have no faith in Robb Stark. i think he hasn't the good sense his mother has nor the heart his father had. i think Jon Snow was a better big brother than Robb ever has been. though Robb has the battlefield experience. i think Robb may eventually just get himself killed, because he won't listen to any advisors. and i don't care about his love life or his betrothal to this Frey girl. couldn't care less. i think both he and Joffrey need a timeout.
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Date: 2012-05-22 10:02 am (UTC)Oh well. There's always True Blood. ;)
and that scene between Jorah and Dany had me gooey too. so moving and from the heart. i just think, though, that Dany is going to break his heart. she's so young and driven.
Oh, definitely. She's been different towards him ever since she realised how he felt about her. But it just turns out that he's the only person she can turn to. Not that I blame her - young, driven, like you said - but poor Jorah.
I don't dislike Robb particularly, I just don't find him very interesting. I think he worked better as a character surrounded by his family, and stripping them away from him one by one (even Cat now) has exposed how undeveloped he is in his own right. A pity.
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Date: 2012-05-22 01:16 am (UTC)And I'm wondering about what's going to happen with Tyrion/Bronn.
And Ros must have a raging cast of PTSD by now.
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Date: 2012-05-22 10:04 am (UTC)Yes, there seemed to be some friction there, and I'm not sure if it's because Bronn is bored, or because something else is going on. Either way, sadly, I don't think Tyrion can rely on him.
And Ros must have a raging cast of PTSD by now
She must, though now I'm wondering why she played along with Tyrion? Has Varys paid her or something?
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Date: 2012-05-22 02:11 pm (UTC)Basically, I suspect that the writers haven't thought through the ways they've slotted Ros into the plot. She's just shuffled in where is convenient. So right now, I'm just assuming she's playing out Alayaya's role.
As for Bronn they've deviated from his story. And his being somewhat popular I can see them wanting to give Bronn more story than he has from here on out in the novels.
In the novels, Sansa wasn't nearly gangraped. However Lollys was actually gang-raped. Lollys was from a titled family where all the male heirs had been killed. Lollys, never the brightest bulb in the box, was so incredibly traumatized by what had happened to her that she was barely functioning. Being pregnant with a bastard from a gang-rape did not help. And her mother was in a state of panic of "how will we survive?! Who will take care of us? Who will defend our estates?" Prior to the gang-rape Lolly's mom had been trying to convince Tyrion to marry Lollys. Tyrion was not at all interested in marriage. Anyway, long story short, it was arranged for Bronn to marry Lollys. That made him a landed, wealthy knight. He promised to raise Lolly's child as his. And Lolly's mother later sent a couple of missives that made it seem as though things were going along as well as such things could.
However, Lollys has been entirely erased from the plot on the show, so I don't know what their plans might be. I've wondered what they might do with him. Given how very little screen time has been given to Tyrion's squire, Podrick (Tyrion name dropped him once a few episodes ago and Cersei took note of Podrick this episode) I had wondered whether Bronn might be slotted for Podrick's role. They've really not given us any feel whatsoever for Podrick. So I wondered whether Bronn might assume that for the immediate time being (I don't know how Bronn would work for Podrick's future, though). On the other hand, I've also wonderd whether they might could use Bronn in place of Jaime's sparring partner (an out of the box solution, but it would keep Bronn more important than he was in the books). I don't know. It's not that Bronn's story is completely over at this point, or that Bronn's part from Book III is unworkable. But, he just doesn't have a great deal to do in the forseeable future so I wonder whether they might roll some other character's actions into him.
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Date: 2012-05-23 11:14 am (UTC)Hmm, after reading your comment, I think on the whole I'm happy that they didn't introduce yet another layer of complication, but as you say, it does beg the question, why is Ros going along with the charade? Probably, they'll never explain it.
As for Bronn, I'd rather he stuck around, but would rather that, if he does, it's not because he's betrayed Tyrion. And I think it's probably a good thing they left out the 'Bronn marries Lollys' plot. I have a hard time imagining TV Bronn marrying someone even for money.
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Date: 2012-05-23 02:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-24 05:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-22 01:37 am (UTC)I do like Brienne. And Yara. And Arya.
Joffrey needs more slapping--preferably with Theon's severed arm.
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Date: 2012-05-22 10:05 am (UTC)Or fewer naked women. I'm easy either way. After all, True Blood is back soon (though I'm going to miss the first two eps), and there's always a glut of equal ops nudity in that. ;)
Joffrey needs more slapping--preferably with Theon's severed arm.
The ideal outcome. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-05-22 02:16 am (UTC)Oh, and since Talisa is not in the book, I have no idea why she wanders the battle field saving lives. Camp followers were never ladies - and no lady would take that up as a hobby.
They actually have a fair amount that isn't in the book series. Keeps it interesting for us book fans - and I suspect the books are way to complex to actually be put on screen whole. But the wholsale changes are rather odd at times. There's far more sex in the series than in the books - but they do sorta portray the gist of the world.
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Date: 2012-05-22 10:11 am (UTC)But it doesn't matter either way. I doubt it's ever going to be that important. It's more annoying that Talisa is a cipher rather than a character, created just to be a love interest, and that never works.
and I suspect the books are way to complex to actually be put on screen whole
Oh definitely. There are also aspects to them that make them particularly difficult to put onscreen, which is GRRM's habit of introducing new POV characters on a regular basis while consigning old ones to the background. TV series viewers are used to more character continuity.
I think they've managed pretty well so far, but I did find I missed a pivotal character like Ned Stark (ie. one around which all the other characters pivot) in this ep.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-23 04:27 pm (UTC)Overall, the episode was underwhelming. One reason was too much time on Robb and the nurse. Nurse story was snooze-inducing, about as much fun as being forced to watch some stranger's vacation pictures.
I thought Catelyn did the right to send Jaimie away. I didn't expect that when she got the sword but that was the only thing she could do then to keep hope to see Sansa (and Arya in her mind) alive. Yes, sorry for Ser Karstark but in this world people care about their own chidren first. That's the only sacred thing for all the heroes.
So no, don't blame Cat at all and I think also her plan wasn't that simple, and Brienne is the only one who could be trusted with it. I think she might be just sending Jaimie somewhere to hide, to keep trading with LF and Tiryon from a position of strength. I don't think she's sending Jaimie directly to KL for a trade.
Plus, I'm looking forward to more awesome scenes between Brienne and Jaimie! But then, the moment I start enjoying some pairs they break it up...
I admit, I spoiled myself for Arya's 3rd wish. I tried to read 2nd book without getting ahead of the show, but in parts it went ahead unexpectedly. So yeah, I read about Arya's 3rd wish in the book and it took my breath away. Didn't see that coming at all, and what a smart move by Arya!
But it was so much better done in the book... In the show it was underwhelming, plus it looked like Arya/Tywin broke up for good without any payoff for their interactions...
Would they meet again, was Tywin playing Arya, or was it just an odd friendship and nothing more?
What did take my breath away is the reveal about Bran and Rickon, that Osha hid them back in the castle! Smart Osha!
And so Theon indeed ordered those orphan boys killed to avoid shame over Stark boys escape. But he was too stupid to see that the farmer's family would have to be killed as well, otherwise they'd talk. But his henchmen saw to that of course... Poor Bran overhearing about the boys. :(
Yara was unexpectedly great there. I don't think Theon will last for long now, either...
The twist with Ros and Shae was also great. So Varys helped Tyrion out here, right? He gave Cersei the wrong whore but now he got even more power over Tyrion...
And does it mean Jeoff won't be spared now or will Tyrion try and protect Ros still, out of decency? He owes her one for Jeoffrey debacle too.
Was nice to see Varys and Bronn more.
As for dragons changing the game - I think now that this season will end on similar note to the last one - with Dany doing something awesome and unexpected in the House of Undying and freeing her dragons.
Very tender moment with her and Jorah, I thought of you then... At least he got this touch from her.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-24 05:49 pm (UTC)Hee! She certainly should.
Overall, the episode was underwhelming. One reason was too much time on Robb and the nurse. Nurse story was snooze-inducing, about as much fun as being forced to watch some stranger's vacation pictures
Sadly, this is all too true. I agree that Catelyn did the right thing. I was annoyed with Robb for being so angry with her. And it doesn't help to learn that the showrunners seems to think Robb was being quite reasonable. I think I need to avoid not only all book spoilers (because book readers seems to be getting more and more disappointed with the show), but also all word from on high of the writers.
But it was so much better done in the book... In the show it was underwhelming, plus it looked like Arya/Tywin broke up for good without any payoff for their interactions...
While I don't agree that the scene was underwhelming, I will be very disappointed if that's the last Arya/Tywin interaction we get.
Very tender moment with her and Jorah, I thought of you then... At least he got this touch from her.
I know. :sniffle: