(no subject)

[shapinglight]

Okay, there's clearly something wrong with me.

Not only was I not particularly upset by the scene in GoT that's upset so many other people, but I also enjoyed the Buffy comic.

:sigh:

I think this house renovation business has had a bad effect my brain. :(

Comments

[shapinglight]

I'm very sorry for the abuse you suffered.

FWIW, I still don't think that people who are outraged by this particular scene just shrugged their shoulders at all that other horrible stuff you mention from the show, or that they think rape of an adult woman is a worse crime than child abuse. I certainly don't.

No one, as far as I can see, is trying to say that Jaime was a great guy before this happened. They just don't like that he's been saddled with a crime that he apparently abhorred in the books. That's all.

I think mrs_underhill's interpretation of the scene, as described below, is what the director of the episode was going for. That's pretty much how I saw it too.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

I'm actually pretty okay, but thanks.

I think what I am trying to get at is why is one event the tipping point?

I recognize why people would be very upset at the rape. I tend to see that as one more twist in a lifelong severely diseased long term relationship - but it is rape even under those conditions.

I also see the marriage of Daenyrs to Drogo as rape - and it was the rape of a child by a large adult. There was some objection but nearly as much as there has been for this current event, despite the fact that this rape was actually longer and more graphic?

Obviously the child abuse has taken place in between (and before), and maybe I made the picture too cloudy by adding it in.

My question - and I know there is no correct answer - why did this rape hit a nerve that the other rape did not? Is it Cersei's power? Is it cumulative violence? I'm more interested in exploring why we react a certain way - speculation?

[shapinglight]

My question - and I know there is no correct answer - why did this rape hit a nerve that the other rape did not? Is it Cersei's power? Is it cumulative violence? I'm more interested in exploring why we react a certain way - speculation?

I think the simple answer is the same as it was with Spike in SR. A lot of people were invested in Jaime's redemption story (as they were in Spike's), and this felt like a slap in the face to them, made worse by the fact that it didn't happen this way in the books.

As for Daenyrys/Drogo - I do remember some anger at the time about how their wedding night sex was portrayed, but having read the first volume of the series (couldn't get through any more), I think the show got it right in doing it the way it did. Dany had been sold to Drogo by her brother. She was just an object - a beautiful object, Drogo clearly appreciated her beauty - but that's how you treat an object. She had to show Drogo she was more than that before he began to reciprocate her feelings, but even then her position was precarious - probably more than she realised.

Well, that's my interpretation anyway. I think the show portrayed that relationship in a more realistic way than GRRM did.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

I pictured the Daenyrus Drogo scene differently. When Drogo said "no" he said it softly and wiped a tear from her face. It seemed to me that he didn't want to hurt her.

I suspect that the tipping point was cumulative. We have seen a great deal - and have not been vocal about it. Jaime threw Bran out the window and the audience was shocked and it solidified the opinion that Jaime was evil. Other bad things happened. Then there was the marriage, and the second rape, and again there was some talk but not like now. A lot more happened. But Jaime seemed to be changing.

The real audience problems seemed to surface with the graphic torture of Theon. I think audience members began to complain much more loudly - particularly when it was revealed these scenes were not in the book. The metaphorical wood was piled, the propellant was added - and Jaime raping Cersei was the final spark. It repels on a great many levels - most of which everyone spoken of. In other words, I don't think this is the worst thing - I think it is the final straw.

I'm not sure where they inte4nd to go with this because this change seriously alters the dynamic of the rest of the series. Jaime should still be seen as seeking redemption. Cersei is actually the one who makes some very unsympathetic moves. It's actually she who wants Jaime back but wants to un-redeem him. This is what a recall as a general theme of the rest of what I read. No spoilers - just a view that the series seems to have up-ended.

[shapinglight]

I pictured the Daenyrus Drogo scene differently. When Drogo said "no" he said it softly and wiped a tear from her face. It seemed to me that he didn't want to hurt her.

Oh, I don't think he wanted to hurt her either, but on the other hand, he wasn't giving her a choice or prepared to wait until she said she was ready.

I don't know about wider audience problems with GoT. I understand that the stuff with Theon was only heard about in hindsight in the books, but I thought it did actually happen. We're just being shown it in real time.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

Agreed on Drogo - a subtle difference. In the tv version he seemed to order her not to cry and have no concern if she was hurt.

It did happen to a degree - we know Theon was flayed to some degree (I believe it was fingers only) and now thought of himself as Reek (I believe). But there was no word of castration, or the elaborate psychological torture. They have let go of entire plot strands - and pumped up others. First season was sexposition - last two have been brutality. There are events that should happen that haven't and other that have been sped up. In the series it was assumed Theon was dead until he showed up an entire book later - already broken.