(no subject)

[shapinglight]

Okay, said I was going to spam, and since this subject is horribly embarrassing for me, I might as well get it off my chest rightaway.

Ahem! I am a feedback whore.



Not that it's True Confessions Week on LJ, or anything, but since I was brought up to think that trying to attract attention to yourself was un-British or unfeminine, or un-something, admitting this is a lot harder than the subject (which is very trivial, I know) actually warrants.

I thought at first I would try and pretend to be all scientific and impersonal and put up some kind of poll so you could all join me in admitting you were also feedback whores, or else take the moral high ground and say getting feedback was a matter of indifference to you. However, implicating you all in my horrible character flaw didn't seem very fair, so I didn't do it.

Anyway, I am one. I wish I wasn't. I wish I was like peasant_ who not only doesn't like getting feedback, but actively discourages it by making it as hard as possible for people to give her any and glaring at them a lot when they do, but I'm not. Getting told people have enjoyed something I've written is one of the best feelings in the world for me. Likewise, not getting any feedback, or not much feedback, for something I've written makes me grumpy, and I have to own up to it.

:sigh: Oh well. Never claimed to be perfect. Should I have done the poll after all, or have I embarrassed myself enough already? Or, indeed, are you asking yourself, what on earth is wrong with wanting/liking to receive feedback? It's a British/women's/old person's problem. Get over it.

Comments

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

*gives you feedback*

Huh. Well, I do love getting feedback, though I'm more interested in prompting a discussion and seeing different viewpoints. It does give me a warm fuzzy feeling that something I wrote/presented provokes such interesting thoughts in people.

But if I don't get much/any feedback...*shrug*. Try again next time.

I would give you assurances that there's nothing wrong with wanting feedback as it's a natural desire in a social environment but I doubt that's what you're looking for so I'll just leave my comment as it. ;)

[shapinglight]

though I'm more interested in prompting a discussion and seeing different viewpoints.

I would like to like that, but it's bloody exhausting. Plus if anyone were to come along and say horrid things about Spike, I probably wouldn't cope with it well. I do admire people who can do it, though.

I'm not really sure what I'm looking for in this post. At least I know I'm not alone, though it does make me wonder, why, if wanting praise is so natural, so many belief systems seem to be set up to discourage that.

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

Oo! Oo! I'm a feedback whore! *strains arm waving*

er... but that cat was out of the bag already, wasn't it? (And may I say I've been enjoying all the "Poetry! Pure Poetry!" comments.)

Moreso, if I don't get any feedback, I'm nervous! Afraid I'm unloved! I refresh incessantly until a fic gets its first comment, then I can relax, sure I've not embarrassed myself. Much.

[shapinglight]

er... but that cat was out of the bag already, wasn't it?

Heh! I think that post of yours might have been a bit of a giveaway, yes. I do love your handy copy-and-paste comments, though. Great idea - though I'm happy to get even a ':)'

Your behaviour on posting fic sounds pretty like mine. I try not to do it, but I can't help myself.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Oh I'm a complete lj slag I'm afraid. Was right from the start and I doubt that I'll change any time soon either. *g*

Thing is fandom can't florish in a vacuum, so unless somebody tells somebody else they like/dislike something, well then people just think nobody's out there and just give in.

[shapinglight]

Thing is fandom can't florish in a vacuum, so unless somebody tells somebody else they like/dislike something, well then people just think nobody's out there and just give in.

Quite true, because after all, what other reward is there? I suppose I have this guilty feeling that the act of being creative should be reward enough, but that's just silly, and certainly not peasant_'s reason for not wanting f/b. Those are very specific and unique to her.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

I also crave feedback, but feel it would be presumptious and needy to actually say so in public. So it might be a British thing, but it's not just women. :-) After all, if you've spent a lot of time working on something, why wouldn't you be unhappy if everybody else apparently ignored your efforts?

[shapinglight]

So it might be a British thing, but it's not just women. :-)

I had suspected as much. I wonder if it's generational too?

:looks around for a young British person to ask. Realises that you might well be one:

After all, if you've spent a lot of time working on something, why wouldn't you be unhappy if everybody else apparently ignored your efforts?

Quite true. It's only human nature, which is why it's so odd that so many belief systems condemn the idea of wanting praise as Evil! and Bad! and Wrong! Or maybe that's specifically a Judaeo-Christian thing, or even just a Christian thing? Or a Catholic thing?

I should just shut up.

[dragonflymuse.livejournal.com]

I don't get a lot of feedback, no matter what I post (with the exception, sometimes, of icons). It is kind of disheartening, but then again I can't blame folks for not chiming in on every post I make. I mean, I read every post on my f-list, because I care about the folks on my list and want to know how things are going for them, but I don't always comment, unless I have something to say that the first dozen commenters haven't touched on.

You haven't embarrassed yourself :) Lots of folks I know here have had the same feelings at one time or another, including me. Sometimes I feel like posting something outrageous just to see if anyone would notice LOL!

[shapinglight]

but I don't always comment, unless I have something to say that the first dozen commenters haven't touched on.

I'm the same, and sometimes I honestly don't know what to say, and what I can think of seems so inadequate that I can't bring myself to press 'post comment.'

Someone further down the thread says that f/b is down all over LJ (or possibly just in the Buffyverse/ex-Buffyverse parts of it, I'm not sure). I wonder why this is? I understand people not posting because they're too busy, but are we really all so much busier than we were a few years ago? I honestly don't know.

Anyway, I'm very aware that I'm as guilty as anyone in commenting less so I will try harder in future.

[danna7001.livejournal.com]

what on earth is wrong with wanting/liking to receive feedback?

Let's see, what is wrong with wanting to connect with people, wanting to know that your work is appreciated, or wanting to know what works and what doesn't work for your readers? Not a thing, darlin'. Why should you even question it?

What I fail to understand is why people don't leave comments or don't answer them. Why be online if other people don't matter? Those people could just as well operate on their own hard drive.

[shapinglight]

I don't understand people not answering commments, unless they post a blanket reason why they can't (lack of time/ill health or whatever). I understand people not commenting a little better. People have all sorts of reasons. However, if no one comments on anything then there's no point in LJ any more, and that would be a shame.

:makes resolution to try and comment more:

Why should you even question it? I really am beginning to suspect it's because I'm British, for which see stormwreath's comment above, and rebcake's comment below.

[jans-intentions.livejournal.com]

I love getting it since it weaves itself into the story and gives me stuff to think about, or just old fashioned 'get on with it, people want more.' In fact, I'm working with someone now betaing and I think that my comments act that way, give the curiosity and the lift and the questions needed to continue. I know in my critique group for my original work I'm grateful whenever I put up a chapter and hear what people thought, and that's just a small handful of people.

But I think since I'm a serial story teller primarily it helps.

[shapinglight]

But I think since I'm a serial story teller primarily it helps.

Yes, I imagine it would give you more of an incentive to keep going. I'm pretty sure if I was posting a long WIP and no one much read or commented I would feel an awful lot less inclined to finish it.

[sammywol.livejournal.com]

Feeds the addiction. Why is this a flaw? Are you wandering the streets of New Orleans comparing the number of bead necklaces your boobs get compared to everyone else? ... if you are then sorry to have interrupted and I'm sure they're lovely ... I think it is perfectly fair to want feedback to something you have spent hard won creative energies on.

[shapinglight]

I think it is perfectly fair to want feedback to something you have spent hard won creative energies on.

When you put it that way, it surely is. So maybe it isn't a flaw? I suppose I have this high falutin' idea in the back of my head that I shouldn't mind if I don't get f/b (which is not to say I don't, because usually I do pretty well), because the act of creativity on its own should be enough. However, I know quite well that if no one ever left f/b, I would probably stop writing, or write an awful lot less.

[jamalov29.livejournal.com]

It's certainly not a British/women/old person problem . I find it natural to want feedback and I do believe that each and every writer need some validation /appreciation of what they write and post , even if they don't say it out loud ( at the exception of a few people perhaps )
Getting told people have enjoyed something I've written is one of the best feelings in the world for me. I 'm sure you wouldn't be surprised to hear that so many people think alike around you. I would like to add that the feeling can be the same even if you're not a writer. I don't post fiction but I happen to share my thoughts and I 'm always deeply appreciative when lj folks come and comment, give their opinion - and I may feel disappointed if some friends I expected to get comments from don't bother.
So yes feedback is important and there's nothing wrong in admitting it.

[shapinglight]

and I 'm always deeply appreciative when lj folks come and comment, give their opinion - and I may feel disappointed if some friends I expected to get comments from don't bother.

Yes, several comments in this post have said the same thing, and now I feel all guilty becuase I know I'm not nearly as good a commenter as I used to be. Aargh!

:is determined to do better in future:

[ringthebells]

*waves* I'm one too!

[shapinglight]

We should form a club. Or an LJ comm.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Apreciating getting feedback, which I think is what you do, is great, and to be expected. A feedback whore, to me is someone who blackmails people into giving feedback (I will not write another chapter until I get......), or who takes without giving.

No I don't think you are a feedback whore, they tend to be very selfish, which I don't think you are.

[shapinglight]

No I don't think you are a feedback whore, they tend to be very selfish, which I don't think you are.

Well, it's nice of you to say. Must admit, I hadn't realised there were degrees of feedback whoreishness. I just thought that any craving for feedback qualified, not just the blackmailing kind, though I know those sorts of extreme cases do occur.

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

Feedback on fic is awesome... especially if people tell you specifically what they like (and don't like! I love constructive criticism and someone just gave me some in email letting me know what didn't work for them in a story.)

Admitting too that getting praise is both really awesome and also embarrassing. Compliments are embarrassing in general for me. IDK why. I'm not even British. :D

But most readers are not going to comment, even if they like something, after the first few days following a post. LJ is weird like that. People feel kind of stalker-y commenting on older posts or something.

[shapinglight]

(and don't like! I love constructive criticism and someone just gave me some in email letting me know what didn't work for them in a story.)

What a sensible person - sending it to you by email, I mean. I think that's much the best and most helpful way to do it personally. I do love long, well-thought out comments myself but I'm happy if people can't manage more than a 'I liked that', mainly because I'm aware how crap I am at delivering much that's useful in the f/b department myself these days. I'm sure I used to be better. Dunno what happened.

Compliments are embarrassing in general for me. IDK why. I'm not even British. :D

Ah. Glad it's not just confined to us, and I'm sure there are lots and lots of British people who don't feel the way I do, especially younger people.

LJ is weird like that. People feel kind of stalker-y commenting on older posts or something.

You think so? Surely not with fic posts. Maybe with personal stuff when you know the person has long since stopped thinking about it.

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

There's nothing wrong with wanting/liking to receive feedback. It's perfectly okay.

And you know, people just aren't leaving feedback and/or commenting like they used to. I don't know why this is. It doesn't take much time to write something, even if it's only one line.

[shapinglight]

There's nothing wrong with wanting/liking to receive feedback. It's perfectly okay.

I should make this my mantra.

I wonder why f/b is so down? Is it just confined to the Buffyverse fandom, do you know, or is it the same everywhere? I could understand in a way it being like that in the Buffyverse fandom becuase we're a dead fandom and those always shrink, but if it's the same in fandoms where the show is still ongoing, that's very odd.

[kitty-poker1.livejournal.com]

Looking on this as a mini-poll, I go with Option ...what on earth is wrong with wanting/liking to receive feedback?

I refresh until my finger is numb until that first comment turns up. It's all very well writing for oneself and being satisfied, and I envy people who can do that, but I need the reassurance that someone enjoys what I've laboured over, that I haven't just wasted an hour (or more likely 12 hours in my case - I'm a slow writer) on something no one but I, and a beta if there's one, will ever see. Hell, I'll take concrit if that's all there is. At least it'll point me in the right direction for the next attempt.

I don't want to write in a vacuum, don't want to gaze with satisfaction at a long list of fics sitting on my journal with no comments. Now I've scared myself! ;)

[shapinglight]

I don't want to write in a vacuum, don't want to gaze with satisfaction at a long list of fics sitting on my journal with no comments. Now I've scared myself! ;)

I'm the same, Kitty. I wish I could rid myself of the notion that it's bad to feel that way, because it isn't really, is it?

[twilightofmagic.livejournal.com]

Well, I'd guess 90% at least of people writing stories get pretty down at the mouth if their labours at the keyboard are met with indifference or scant attention. There's nothing quite so motivating to carry on writing as lots of feedback. I've seen lots of reference to low levels of feedback these days though. ::hugs::

[shapinglight]

I've seen lots of reference to low levels of feedback these days though. ::hugs::

Yes, menomegirl above was saying she's noticed a big drop in f/b for fics since she started editing the Herald. Is it possible that all the Buffyverse stories have been written, and therefore people start a fic and then don't finish it because they realise they've read it before?

Oh, I don't know, and you are of course right that most people feel upset if no one comments on their story. And those who don't mind often have very specific reasons why they feel that way.

[quinara]

I love feedback, but I have the similar (un-British?) thing of never wanting to demand it of people, so I never promote my fic, only post it in one or two places, and then dream that through some sort of miracle all these adoring people will drop out of the sky and say "Ooh...".

Of course, I also hit on the other (British?) thing of not trusting praise when I get it, so I always brush off any nice comments I actually do get. Even though I still want praise. It's basically a never-ending cycle.

[quinara]

Ack, both of my brackety bits should be "(British?)", sigh. Though that means that the second one should probably become "(also British?)"...

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Hello, my name is Rebcake, and I'm a feedback whore. I know this is true, because I just added a line in my profile saying that people who leave comments are more beautiful than all others. I doubt it will have any effect. Because I did that, it is clear that I am not British. We Yanks are constantly going about saying things like, "Didja like it? Huh? What did you like best?" and "What do you think of this dress?", or my personal favorite, "Tell me more about my eyes." Feedback sluts, the lot of us.

Here's a little thought that might buck you up, though. The creative professionals who will be attending your upcoming fan events are even bigger feedback whores than you or I will ever be! They get actual filthy lucre for the things they do, and they're still coming out to bask in all the positive feedback we fans provide. JM has even said that we (the fans) are the main difference between the kind of work he does, and that of the typical actor on a procedural show. He seems to gain considerable energy from it/us.

So we ought to feel okay about getting a little juice from feedback, ourselves, shouldn't we? Everything needs fuel to keep running. Of course, all this has got me thinking on positive feedback loops, and their many uses in nature and on the interwebs...this could go on all day!

[shapinglight]

We Yanks are constantly going about saying things like, "Didja like it? Huh? What did you like best?" and "What do you think of this dress?", or my personal favorite, "Tell me more about my eyes." Feedback sluts, the lot of us.

Yes, but this is probably a positive thing and says volumes about our national characters and explains all sorts of stuff - er, or something.

You are quite right about JM and co, of course. And if fact about all actors. You would only put yourself through the unnerving experience of declaiming/singing in front of a bunch of strangers if you getting something out of it, wouldn't you?

Psst! Interested in a Darla ficathon? You could do that story about Spike and Darla in the 1950s

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

FEEDBACK!
GIMME!
GIMME!
GIMME!

And having said that, anyone might be entitled to respond "well write a more popular pairing then!"

[shapinglight]

And having said that, anyone might be entitled to respond "well write a more popular pairing then!"

There is that. I love Spike/Riley but it's not the most popular pairing, any more than Spike/Giles.

But feedback whores or no, I suppose we write what we have to write. Right?

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Me too - I panic if no-one tells me they are reading - even though I really enjoy the writng.

Like Trepkos says though, I think if I wrote in the mainstream I'd probably get more - but then, to me, the stories would be boring!!

[shapinglight]

Like Trepkos says though, I think if I wrote in the mainstream I'd probably get more - but then, to me, the stories would be boring!!

Well, I think it's very difficult to write something you're not interested in/enjoying. And since we're writing for love, not profit, even less likely that fanficcers will do it.

Is the LJ LotR fandom on the small side? I'm such a one-fandom person, I know precious little about other fandoms.

[clawofcat.livejournal.com]

Feedback is a strange thing on LJ. There was a time when I also would constantly refresh to see if there was a comment on a new story of mine. I love feedback. Who doesn't? It's encouraging and interesting to see what bits stood out for your readers, where they connected (or didn't connect) with your characters or content. That "conversation" makes the whole LJ scene unique, fun and social.

Having not written anything for several months, I'm always somewhat flattered when a new comment does pop up on an older fic of mine, especially one that I'm proud of or is a personal favorite. To know that your work doesn't fall into the black hole of the internets 5 days after you've posted is heartening.

To make a generalization, not getting any comments or only a small sum is like Buffy in Innocence Part II. *teary eyed* "Was it me? Was I not...good?"

Something that's more bothersome to me though is non-fic related posts. I work under the assumption that few people actually care about my personal life. That all they really want out of me is my fic. The last few months I've gone weeks without posting because of that. "If it's not fandom, does it matter?" And I think that's more distressing to me than anything else. It's not something I post about or talk about, but it does twist me up a bit. "Does anyone care about the person behind the fic?" I tell myself that the answer is probably no, whether that's true or not.

[shapinglight]

That "conversation" makes the whole LJ scene unique, fun and social.

Yes, I agree, and memomegirl says comments are down everywhere, which is strange.

To know that your work doesn't fall into the black hole of the internets 5 days after you've posted is heartening.

Oh yes! I love getting f/b way after the event almost more than f/b on new stuff.

"Does anyone care about the person behind the fic?" I tell myself that the answer is probably no, whether that's true or not.

I really don't think this is so, though personal posts can be more tricky. I sometimes don't comment on them because people are asking for advice and I have no experience in the area they want advice in (no good asking me about men and dating, for instance, I've been with the same man since I was 18). And sometimes, when people are having a tough time, as so many do on LJ, it's hard to think of anything more to say that just an inadequate :Hugs: But no. I don't think the majority of people think non-fandom related posts aren't worth reading.

I can only speak from personal experience, but what I tend to do is go through my flist, read the fannish posts quickly because they require one kind of mindset and leave comments if the subject interests me. I note the personal posts and when I have time, go back and read them and comment if I have anything relevant to say. I freely admit that I do forget sometimes and don't go back, but that can equally happen with fannish posts if I'm short of time. But it's not becuase I find one sort of post more or less interesting than the other. At least, I don't think so.

I hope you will start posting more. The longer you leave it, the harder it gets, and I would be sorry if you went.

[helenkacan.livejournal.com]

Moi is too much of a lady (porcine princess?) to demand feedback. Ah, but when it shows up in my Inbox, I'm thrilled to bits.

However, it's a strange mental exercise that seems to operate beneath any deliberate, conscious level for me: when I read something, it doesn't matter whether I obtained equal enjoyment from many stories, I'll still be tempted to comment on only one or two. I also know of some lj-ers who won't comment if they see too many comments, figuring that theirs will be lost in the crush.

Even so, I've been meaning to comment on the finale to your epic, though I've been somewhat distracted lately. But I promise!

[shapinglight]

Moi is too much of a lady (porcine princess?) to demand feedback.

Heh! No, I don't think I could either, hence my utter chagrin when I woke up this morning to the realisation that people would think this post just such a demand. I honestly didn't mean it to be.

Anyway, if this conversation spurs me on to be better about leaving f/b for others, that's a good thing, right?

I also know of some lj-ers who won't comment if they see too many comments, figuring that theirs will be lost in the crush.

Really? That's a new one on me, must admit.

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

I'm a feedback whore too! Which is why the depressing lack of it recently has practically killed my desire to write stone dead.

[shapinglight]

Oh dear! We probably ought to make a pact to leave feedback on each other's fic posts (I assume you're talking about fic?). The trouble is, half of us probably hate what the other half is writing for whatever reason.

Maybe we should just copy hello_spikey's list of handy feedback phrases and use them?

[kazzy-cee.livejournal.com]

I understand completely! :)

[shapinglight]

Very nice icon, Kazzy. I need one of those to get me through till Friday.

[missus-grace.livejournal.com]

You are not alone.

When I first discovered fanfic I never left feedback. It was pre-LJ and involved emailing and I wanted to be anonymous so that was part of it. When I joined LJ I started giving it out, and realized how I'd been taking, taking, and taking without giving anything back.

When I decided to start writing I said I was never going to be like those authors that begged for feedback or held the readers hostage by saying they wouldn't write anymore unless they got feedback. Or on the same hand, begged for feedback to get another chapter out faster. No, I had a story to tell and needed to share it, regardless of how many people were reading/enjoying it.

But then you publish your first story and you get that first comment and it's like crack, man. It feels darn good to know that your creation had an impact on someone. And it does inspire you to work faster, churning out the words to get more feedback to feel the endorphin rush that makes you more prolific.

I once got no comments for the first two chapters of a story I wrote. So I quit writing it. I'd like to finish it one day, but I've got no inspiration for it now. (I'll probably put it up at Spuffy Realm - I can always get a comment or two there :O!)

So long-winded answer is to agree with you and give you a fist bump of solidarity!

[shapinglight]

:fist bumps back:

My fic reading experience sounds very similar to yours. Before LJ, I think I only ever gave proper f/b to a handful of authors because I thought they were so good I just had to. I wish now I'd been a better commenter, though I think it was actually harder to do it back then by email than it is to leave an LJ comment.

LJ makes f/b'ing very easy, in fact, which probably feeds in to the whole feedback whorishness.

[evilmaniclaugh.livejournal.com]

I hate posting, find it really traumatic, and therefore I'm terrified every time I receive a comment.

[shapinglight]

Really? Wow, that is a different reaction. Very interesting, though. Does it make you feel any better when you've read the comment and it's positive or are you still terrified?